Why bother doing M+ if not with friends?
The game design is cancerous if you attempt to pug it. Just avoid it and save yourself the headache
Why bother doing M+ if not with friends?
The game design is cancerous if you attempt to pug it. Just avoid it and save yourself the headache
Why? I can just run with friends instead of doing it anytime I wanted like now.
I mean you can run keys now, I pug a ton of keys and get most of my KSM that way, I think I've had maybe 5 leavers in the last three expansions? It's not some epidemic, if it always happens to you maybe you're just bad.
Every time I see this argument, I recoil in my chair in cringe. You know as well as every one else that this wilfully ignores the fundamental issues discussed in this thread.
In the keys that Anchorite did experience leavers, you have no way of knowing whether the reasons for leaving were justified or not, yet you'd happily suggest implementing penalties on them.
What about the repercussions that have been discussed - instead of receive punishments for leaving, what's to stop me as a healer, forgetting to heal various party members? Doh, my addons have bugged out and I can now only see my health frame? Oopsy, I've only gone and backpedalled into a patrol. My doorbell keeps ringing and I have to keep going to get it.
I don't experience leaving that often, but in the few cases I have, it was entirely justifiable (whether I left or someone else). The scenario of people randomly dropping groups that were going perfectly is one that only exists in MMOC posters heads and this thread.
In the extremely rare instances that someone has to leave a group genuinely randomly - e.g. their mum has fallen down the stairs and is unconscious - you really think a deserter debuff will prevent them from leaving the group? Stupid.
Last edited by Anzen; 2023-01-20 at 08:30 AM.
Man the amount of mental gymnastics you people will do to try and convince the world you're not the asshats who leave because you decided to pull 3 extra packs, wiped the group and fucked the timer is impressive. I mean Nan broke her hip? Holy shit man, that's right up there with "afk cat on fire"
> "mental gymnastics you people to will do" - ignores every point made.
> next sentence sets up a strawman to argue against "try and convince the world you're not the asshats who leave because you decided to pull 3 extra packs, wiped the group and fucked the timer is impressive"
Awkward. All the while being unable to read because the anti-punishment group is very open in this thread about the fact that leaving very rarely happens in their experience. Makes you wonder why some people seem to experience people leaving regularly, and some don't...
My obviously extreme example of why someone might have to leave was meant to try support your argument that people do leave randomly. But you decided to argue against it /facepalm... in that case, I won't try to help you, let's just agree that no-one leaves groups randomly so punishments don't make sense.
Honestly take your time coming up with your next reply, your last one was plain dumb.
Last edited by Anzen; 2023-01-20 at 09:01 AM.
Bottom line is, this game(as any online game) is riddled with morons. Just last night, did a dungeon on my priest. The DK tank pulled half the brackenhide instance before first boss and dies. He goes on raging in chat telling everyone what they did wrong. He goes again, pulls everything. Dies. Rages and complain that people lack this and that. He got high io everyone else suck blablabla.
Clearly this person thought that everyone is like him. Clearly he though before going into the dungeon with 4 strangers that everyone would know what to do, what he would do etc.
Its just yet another example of asshats in an online game.
I think a deserter button surely would hold value in m+, but I suspect it could(will) get abused somehow.
With m+, Blizzard is telling us that we decide the group to go with. In dungeon finder, the game does. Thats the difference.
You only really decide if you are making the group though. Otherwise you are just picking a group based on the leader. ANd especially if you are dps, you cannot really afford to be that picky if you have small windows of playtime and don't want to waste them all looking for group.
I am not that picky, but even as dps I have limits. For example I don't mind much a tank boosting his undergeared friend but if that friend still has greens in m+ when 343 blues cost peanuts I'm out (also if said friend is from a different server as the tank).
Or lack of greetings. Over the years I pugged enough to... dislike... silent groups where nobody else can be arsed to type literally two letters in chat.
Of course I leave before the key started.
in your example you act like „Bob making the other player the 1st leaver“ costs no time and is not time wasting for Bob. What about Bob sitting down afk and the grp just goes on for x amout of time? what about Bob sitting down afk and the ppls start the vote mechanic and 4 ppls click „fine“. then the dungeon ends naturally and no other person has the marker debuff. it’s completely the same as it is today then. but in that case it’s the fallback, not the default, when Bob decides to leave.
it seems you not fully understood the system i mentioned, tbh. (no offense)
This currently exists? A group can continue to 4 man a dungeon with Bob afk/not there. Granted most players realize the amount of effort it takes to make up for the 5th person so they also leave.
Uh but that assumes that the rest of the group wants to leave. The case I spelled out is if only Bob wants to leave and not the rest of the group. So seeing that Bob is "trapped" (or held hostage) by the rest of the group, Bob then decides to be counterproductive so that either the group has another vote (if there is a voting system) or someone else leaves first (if there's a punishment system for the first leaver).
The how Bob is "counterproductive" is irrelevant. He is now a hinderance to the group because he can't leave the group nor does the rest of the group want to disband. Additionally, now there's additional time being "wasted" on top of the time already spent in dungeon. That is the biggest issue, you've turned a smaller problem into potentially a larger one.
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I like that there is no penalty, sometimes i logout as soon as the key start and leave group at 1 second, without talking in party or anywhere,
prevents getting reported
What would stop people from simply afking? Although I haven't done it myself, I've seen on the WoW pvp subreddit videos of some people just afking due to them not winning in solo shuffle. Hell, the one match I had a DPS pop all cds before the match started. We barely won but it was a huge up hill fight due to that guy just being a troll. I feel like shitholes will just continue to be shitholes.
Can't leave the M+? Just afk.
Can't afk? Half ass it and "die" early/often
They'll just find another way to not contribute and be an anchor.
You still pick who you play with. There isn't some magical contract you sign when you get accepted. You can look at the group comp and then leave and try again. You still have agency of who you play with. The fact that as DPS you can't be as picky is a supply/demand problem, not a Blizzard problem. In a nutshell, you always have agency over who you play with, and the fact that you've delegated that to someone else (by not being the party leader) does not change that.
Mythic+ is designed to be played as an organized group, not a PuG.
Bingo.
Every single freakin "solution" suggested since the creation of Mythic+ has been plagued with unintended consequences. People will post their brilliant idea to Reddit without thinking through those consequences, and others will point out exactly those consequences. On Reddit there's a guy that posts in every "M+ leaver solution" thread a list of previous Reddit posts going back to Legion with the ideas suggested and the comments section explaining why it's not a viable idea.
Once players start understanding that they have the power to control who they play with, the sooner we will stop seeing these types of threads pop up on the mmo-champion forums and Reddit. Until then, we're going to continue to have some person who thinks they're smarter than the rest of the room tell us their genius idea for M+ and then have it devolve into 700+ pages of posts explaining why it won't work.
Simple when you apply for a group it shows exactly how many keys you left that week in the baracerts of +1 to +5, +6 to +10, +11 to +15 , +16 to +20 and +2- amnd beyond. So the group leader can decide if they want to invite you to the group base of the keys you left at what level. Since people doing +20 is doing it to time the key so even if you have 100 keys left in +20 it normal vs 100 key left in +15.
But nope, everyone here does not even what others to see how many keys they left. They simply want to "hide" the fact how many keys they left thus any form of punishment even if it is just to show the group leader how many keys you left is consider bad.
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Do you know what a good solution is, then? Don't allow m+ to be posted in the group founder. NO group founder people have to get friends or guilds or just post in trade chat. Simple solution blizzard can wash their hands clean and even post a blue post saying m+ is meant to be done with a co-ordinated group not with pugs so we remove that tools. So now people who complain about bad pugs can't use that excuse anymore.