Blizzard destruction of world pvp intentionally gets more obvious....

[Gren]

They like it so long as they are winning. As soon as somebody turns up and whips their ass back to goldshire/valley of trials they usually turn tail and leg it.

World PvP has been pointless and dead since they introduced Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin back in Classic. Since then the vast majority of people that like world pvp, only do it when they are certain of winning (by being level 90 with twice the health of a Molten Core raid boss and picking fights with 1-2k life level 20 lowbies).

I don't know what realms you've played on but, in my experience, WPvP was pretty good all the way to WotLK. Heck I could even find some good battles on RP realms up till then too.

[Lime]

No...you know perfectly well the argument behind this. That why you are hiding behind technicalities and semantics.

Actually, I wasn't sure which argument you were going to use. And I'm not hiding behind anything other than facts.

PvP is Player vs Player. Two Players. Not one. It is something that by definition needs to encompass BOTH parties in the fight. With griefing and portal attacks and ganking, what you get is one player/team "engaging" in PvP...not two. The other party simply isn't effective, isn't a challenge, often can't even attack.

When you take an activity such as PvP that requires TWO sides and remove one of them form the equation...then it stops being PvP.

If you attack and kill a target while he is loading in,you are not engaging in PvP. You are simply griefing another player and doing so in a cowardly fashion because you get some kick out of wrecking someone elses playtime.

Where do you get the whole "both players have to fight" thing from? I've said it before, as a ganker, You are a Player (P) and you are against (vs) another Player (P).

So if I were to make a huge wPvP raid group (~100 players) and assault a main city killing off the much fewer players there, would that not be PvP either? It would be the same equivalent as a higher level killing a lower level, instant death.

Because if it doesn't, you are simply griefing and doing your absolute best to destroy world PvP. You can't have PvP when only one side of the equation can actually take part.

EJL

I don't understand how thats destroying wPvP. Blizzard themselves have stated that griefing is an intended thing on PvP realms.


That being said, i do thank you for at least explaining yourself. Thats more than most are willing to do.

[banan163]

I don't understand how thats destroying wPvP. Blizzard themselves have stated that griefing is an intended thing on PvP realms.


That being said, i do thank you for at least explaining yourself. Thats more than most are willing to do.

The way its destroying wpvp is that onesided "pvp" fights only cater to the winning side and the losing side jsut get put off by it and come to the forums and complain, the complaints piles up and blizz has to take actions. Which leads to these threads, so infact "pvpers" that grief lower lvl are only shooting themselves in the foot in the long run.

[Lime]

The way its destroying wpvp is that onesided "pvp" fights only cater to the winning side and the losing side jsut get put off by it and come to the forums and complain, the complaints piles up and blizz has to take actions. Which leads to these threads, so infact "pvpers" that grief lower lvl are only shooting themselves in the foot in the long run.

How does losing put someone off of it? From my experience, if I get ganked, I'm not gonna be like, "Well, I'm done with wPvP". If anything, being on the losing side made me love wPvP. It made me hopeful of the day where I could get revenge (not in a hateful way, but a fun kinda way).

And Blizzard has barely taken action against gankers as a whole. The Dark Portal probably does need to be fixed, but I can't think of any action that states they're against anything else. In Cata, they gave outpost guards a huge buff, but they've been nerfed since then on PvP realms.

[Terahertz]

I'm struggling to understand how ganking people 30 levels below you comprises "awesome open world battles." Seriously, I'm really trying to understand that statement.

And what I'm trying to understand is why people want blizzard to carry their butts everywhere and make the game even less dangerous.

Honestly, the only thing that's dangerous in WoW while leveling are enemy players. Remove that and you have 0 risk in the game. 0 risk = boring.

If it were to me I'd have all strong guards removed >.>

[melodramocracy]

what you want is "carebear pvp". but that is what pve realms are for.

Umm, pvp in this game, across the board, IS carebear. All of it. So please stop using that term, or go play a game where you can actually lose possessions on death via pvp. And you'll see the difference.

[Chonar]

But more importantly, lets get back on what you said earlier. I really don't see anyone defending those deplorable actions. I see people (myself included) defending logic by arguing semantics. Alot of the people who blindly attack it are arguing their opinion and trying to write it off as fact, meanwhile we're telling they're factually wrong.

By definition, ganking lowbies is PvP. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Okay, sure. The point being is that ganking lowbies is deplorable behaviour, and should be discouraged on all fronts.

Those who are saying "it isn't (real) PVP" are not argueing semantics WITH YOU, you're just *turning* it into a semantics argument because you can offer no valid counterpoint to what YOU KNOW they're implying, yet not saying in so many words.

You're not defending logic. You're defending a form of griefing by purposefully misinterpreting your opponent's meaning by nitpicking their choice of words.

No one is that dense that they don't know what's being implied. No one. Stop kidding yourself.

[pmgbro]

And what I'm trying to understand is why people want blizzard to carry their butts everywhere and make the game even less dangerous.

Honestly, the only thing that's dangerous in WoW while leveling are enemy players. Remove that and you have 0 risk in the game. 0 risk = boring.

If it were to me I'd have all strong guards removed >.>

Exactly. This new player base wouldn't last 10 minutes during vanilla. EVERY contested zone was a threat to your life. That was the most adrenaline rushing I had with this game. You had no clue if you were safe while being a zone. You had graveyards of skeletons everywhere and that's what made it fun. It forced you to get better and it forced you to interact with your faction. There were tons of level 60's that would come and help you and it turned into an all out pvp fest and that was the most fun. Like really? It's a detriment to your leveling experience if you get ganked by someone 30 levels higher than you? That happened in every zone back in the day. Here's a hint to all the pussies this game has spawned, go join a pve server so that isn't a problem. If you don't like WPVP then not rolling a pvp server is common sense.

[Chonar]

Exactly. This new player base wouldn't last 10 minutes during vanilla. EVERY contested zone was a threat to your life. That was the most adrenaline rushing I had with this game. You had no clue if you were safe while being a zone. You had graveyards of skeletons everywhere and that's what made it fun. It forced you to get better and it forced you to interact with your faction. There were tons of level 60's that would come and help you and it turned into an all out pvp fest and that was the most fun. Like really? It's a detriment to your leveling experience if you get ganked by someone 30 levels higher than you? That happened in every zone back in the day. Here's a hint to all the pussies this game has spawned, go join a pve server so that isn't a problem. If you don't like WPVP then not rolling a pvp server is common sense.

The reality of yesteryear is no longer the reality of today. The event that a ton of maxlevel would react to something like lowbie ganking, and that an actual max-level openworld PVP battlefield would happen as a result, is incredibly unlikely today.

No matter how much fun it was, and how often it happened, back in the day.

[Sansnom]

ah your one of this I want pvp but only on my terms people.............well then do arena/bgs! world pvp is meant to be dangerous and random and suprising.....I didnt roll a pvp server to sit in the middle of a town knowing I cant be suddenly attacked because theres all these elite pve npcs protecting me! Nor did I roll a pvp server to have my solo raids on alliance territory fought off not by other players banding together as pvp is meant to play out but by elite pve npcs!

Its pointless!

And going back to the quote from gc.... in areas such as the dark portal which are faction neutral and in lore fought over ground there is even less sense in having elite guards!

And you sound like someone who thinks a level 90 vs a level 40 is PvP. It is in a way I suppose. Depends on the your definition and interpretation. And if I remember correctly, the guards are only around towns and certain areas. This is to avoid level 90s from camping quest hubs. Tarren Mills for examples.

If you want WPvP, there is nothing stopping you from patrolling high or, if you that really that good at PvP, low level questing zones hunting the opponents and maybe wait for their mains to come online.

Or you can arrange a city raid. How many times has that happened?

[ralphie]

World PvP =/= bunch of 90s ganking lowbies around the Dark Portal.

[Lime]

Okay, sure. The point being is that ganking lowbies is deplorable behaviour, and should be discouraged on all fronts.

Those who are saying "it isn't (real) PVP" are not argueing semantics WITH YOU, you're just *turning* it into a semantics argument because you can offer no valid counterpoint to what YOU KNOW they're implying, yet not saying in so many words.

You're not defending logic. You're defending a form of griefing by purposefully misinterpreting your opponent's meaning by nitpicking their choice of words.

No one is that dense that they don't know what's being implied. No one. Stop kidding yourself.

Please tell me how I'm defending griefing. How does anything I say defend griefers? Griefers don't care if what they're doing is PvP or not. How is the way we classify what they are doing going to have any affect on them. The point is no longer about griefers, it's about if a term is correct or not.

This is going to be bizarre, but I can't think of another way to express my point any clearer than I have.

Jimmy eats an Apple on Day 1.
On Day 2, Chad says that Jimmy ate an Orange on Day 1.

Chad is wrong. It doesn't matter what he thinks is or isn't right. Jimmy ate an Apple.

It doesn't matter if some people think that ganking isn't wPvP. It is. Fact is fact.

If you continue to imply, you're being a Chad.

[Zergin8r]

Yeah... not buying it for 1 second. I'm an extreme alt-oholic and I have never heard of / had this issue. Sure, have I died on the way there? Of course. But I've never seen someone knocked backed nor have I ever been knocked backed constantly, especially seeing as how a level 90 knockback would 1 shot you.

Even if they did the impossible and shot off a knockback the very moment you spawned, you would still make progress. And yeah, it is damn near impossible for them to do that. As I said earlier, they would have to know the exact moment you spawned and the exact location you spawned at. If not, then you would be able to run a few yards, getting you even closer to the portal.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if you're the only one, someone else will come very shortly.

Deathgrip would take you back to your corpse only if they used it the very moment you ressed. If you walked 1 yard, you'd be closer to the Portal. And you can rez while moving, not sure what you're going on about...

First Tyhpoon does no damage (I assume this is why more than half the campers are druids), and I have been chain tyhphooned by several druids before even finishing the load screen. This means I started much further away than I was supposed to. Second, after the 4th death or so, it starts taking 2 min to res therefore I was spending 2 minutes to move maybe 2 yards. And as I stated before, the fact that they have at least 2 seconds of you being targetable yet unable to act is more than enough time for someone to come and kill you/tyhpoon/thunderstorm/death grip. Lastly, if they manage to hit you when you are on the ramp to the portal, it actually knocks you back further than your corpse, as the time it takes to hit the ground is longer.

How do you res while moving? If I hit the resurrect button I am unable to take any action while the screen fades to the proper colours. Trying to mount/cast a spell will result in "I can't do that now" and holding the w key does nothing until the fade effect completes.

On a side note, there also seems to be alot of characters with knockback camping areas where there are quests near cliffs so they can push low levels off the side.

[Lime]

First Tyhpoon does no damage (I assume this is why more than half the campers are druids), and I have been chain tyhphooned by several druids before even finishing the load screen. This means I started much further away than I was supposed to. Second, after the 4th death or so, it starts taking 2 min to res therefore I was spending 2 minutes to move maybe 2 yards. And as I stated before, the fact that they have at least 2 seconds of you being targetable yet unable to act is more than enough time for someone to come and kill you/tyhpoon/thunderstorm/death grip. Lastly, if they manage to hit you when you are on the ramp to the portal, it actually knocks you back further than your corpse, as the time it takes to hit the ground is longer.

1. I totally forgot about Typhoon.

2. While I'm not saying that scenario is impossible, I find it extremely unlikely that so many druids would focus on you and nobody else who came through the portal. If they focus on even 1 other person, then they won't be able to typhoon you due to it's 30 second cooldown.

3. What are you talking about when you say that you're "unable to act" when you rez? There isn't a delay at all. If you're getting a delay, especially a 2 second one, then something is wrong on your end.

4. This can easily be solved by running next to the ramp and dying instead of running up it. That way you can rez at the top of it.

The only way I can see it taking multiple hours for you to pass through the portal, is if you are truly the only one there for all of those hours, which like I said, is pretty much an impossibility in itself.

[RickJamesLich]

World PvP is alive, but in a very weakened state, I wouldn't expect WoW to try to do much to help it (as has been the case with all forms of PvP really). Previously, the war between the alliance and the horde was player driven, in MOP now though it's really just a bunch of quest npc's that you ride past.

[Kotori125]

I am fine with world pvp, as long as it is player versus player, both sides fighting each other. Not player killing lowbie. Or player camping lowbie. I would think that within five levels would be fine, perhaps even 10 levels, as I experienced this leveling my monk through pandaria. Was 86 brm, an unholy dk at 89 tries to gank me, yet I outplayed him and I ended up chasing HIM to gank HIM. Now that was fun and funny. And what is he going to say to try to get others, that a level 86 is camping him, a level 89 lol.

Oh, and comments about flying mounts killing wpvp. Yeah, it does. For the retalliation group. As the ganker/griefer just flies up stopping the pvp. Then we have places like ilse of thunder with no flying, or tol barad, and those had large scale wpvp without 'cowards on flying mounts'. But no, wpvp is ganking/griefing, and running when you can no longer dominate, right...?

[Zergin8r]

And you sound like someone who thinks a level 90 vs a level 40 is PvP. It is in a way I suppose. Depends on the your definition and interpretation. And if I remember correctly, the guards are only around towns and certain areas. This is to avoid level 90s from camping quest hubs. Tarren Mills for examples.

If you want WPvP, there is nothing stopping you from patrolling high or, if you that really that good at PvP, low level questing zones hunting the opponents and maybe wait for their mains to come online.

Or you can arrange a city raid. How many times has that happened?

Again... hoping for someone to get their main is a sad excuse for camping low levels as there is a decent chance that their main will not even be merged to the same cross realm zone, and most gankers just fly away when someone their own level shows up anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

1. I totally forgot about Typhoon.

The only way I can see it taking multiple hours for you to pass through the portal, is if you are truly the only one there for all of those hours, which like I said, is pretty much an impossibility in itself.

I guess Cross Realm hates me, I rarely see anyone of the faction I am playing, and either get ganked by high levels or groups of horde that are questing.

Also.... why do the gaurds at halfhill ignore gankers now, yet if you retaliate while already in combat a group of them spawns to murder you?

[Lime]

I guess Cross Realm hates me, I rarely see anyone of the faction I am playing, and either get ganked by high levels or groups of horde that are questing.

Well, I'm just going to go off the assumption that you're telling the truth. At least the portal ganking will be nerfed next patch, although Rogues and maybe Hunters are still going to be able to get you.

Even though it may seem like I'm for it, I am actually against Dark Portal griefing. Hopefully this ends up solving your problem next patch.

[Spotnick]

ah your one of this I want pvp but only on my terms people.............well then do arena/bgs! world pvp is meant to be dangerous and random and suprising.....I didnt roll a pvp server to sit in the middle of a town knowing I cant be suddenly attacked because theres all these elite pve npcs protecting me! Nor did I roll a pvp server to have my solo raids on alliance territory fought off not by other players banding together as pvp is meant to play out but by elite pve npcs!

Its pointless!

And going back to the quote from gc.... in areas such as the dark portal which are faction neutral and in lore fought over ground there is even less sense in having elite guards!

World PVP is meant to be fair, being one shot from a level 90 landing on you from the air when you're questing in Hyjal is not fair, you have zero chance to beat a level 90 when you're level 81. Worst case is when they do it multiple times, it's rather obvious that they do it to annoy you. Plus some take advantage of the phasing, so they are almost sure no level 90 will go attack them back because people are in another phase.

I really don't know why some people find it amusing to annoy other people's leveling experience by camping them.

So there are multiple ways to fix this problem, but I doubt it will ever happen.

- Phase leveling toons together, so people leveling in the zone will only see people in same level bracket, and pvp with them.
- Give a debuff that prevents you from being attacked from same people multiple times in short amount of time
- Scale the stats of the attacker to the level of the person he engaged. (So if you attack a level 81 at level 90, you will be considered like if you were a level 81)

They did the last one in low level battlegrounds I believe, I can't see why it would be complicated to do that.

Let's be honest, this bad kind of world pvp is probably making new players quit. I believe the biggest issue is flying mounts in that case, world pvp was meant when people could mount and gtfo, now they just land on you and gank you just to piss you off.. I can't find any argument that says this is good for the game versus a real fair pvp battle.

[Lime]

World PVP is meant to be fair

No, it's not. I would argue the exact opposite. Leveling as Horde on KJ and having Ruinous (massive wPvP guild) steamroll you as they pass through your outpost is anything but fair, but it's awesome at the same time.

Blizzard intended for there to be griefing on PvP realms, although apparently not on the scale of what is happening at the portal.

In short, the experience on a PvP server is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP server what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.