Burning Crusade had 14... yes 14 dungeons at release.

[Holdodlig]

Do those 7 include the revamped instances?

This is 6 new dungeon, and 2 revamped.

[Ralikon]

This is 6 new dungeon, and 2 revamped.

that's pretty weak. The 2 revamped shouldn't even count towards new in all rights.

[Dirth]

My thought is that 6 new and 2 revamped at the beginning is perfectly fine.
What bothers me is the lack of new 5man content brought in later patches. Lately I've been running some heroics to tie up some loose ends on rep and when you're rolling through them with a tank with 975k health...you sort of wonder what the point of their existence is. They're now merely stepping stones to get LFR geared and frankly, thanks to T.I., they're barely filling that role.

I would like to see new, difficult 5mans that keep with the story come out in the middle/end of the patch cycle. Of course in Wrath, part of the magic for that was we could have fun, get high level gear (or do battered hilt!), see some new art and content and boss mechanics, and wear tabards to get rep at the same time.

[Baine]

Yet so many more people played it so much more:O

Number of subscriptions=/number of dungeons

However, I agree that seven dungeons at launch is a bit low since they acknowledged our demand for more five persons content. They probably intend to add more in 6.1. and maybe -that would be a logical solution to avoid dungeon burn out during 6.1/2/3/4-to scale up the 6.0 instances on par with current content so we would have more than 2 dungeons to run.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

My thought is that 6 new and 2 revamped at the beginning is perfectly fine.
What bothers me is the lack of new 5man content brought in later patches. Lately I've been running some heroics to tie up some loose ends on rep and when you're rolling through them with a tank with 975k health...you sort of wonder what the point of their existence is. They're now merely stepping stones to get LFR geared and frankly, thanks to T.I., they're barely filling that role.

I would like to see new, difficult 5mans that keep with the story come out in the middle/end of the patch cycle. Of course in Wrath, part of the magic for that was we could have fun, get high level gear (or do battered hilt!), see some new art and content and boss mechanics, and wear tabards to get rep at the same time.

It's hard. Do you have the gear be on par with the raid-tier gear? I thought about it too. Looking at stuff like TBC, one dungeon was added after the initial ones. It's weird to tell a player "Well, you did really hard content...but here's a 5-man that's on par with the content you did..just...easier?." Granted, Magister's Terrace was HARD...so...I'd be fine with hard-as-crack dungeons that gear you up that ARE NOT NERFED. I mean, it's not unheard of (CoT dungeons in Cata were added, I forget their relative tier), but it's just awkward sometimes.

[scvd]

Quality over quantity friend, I'm actually pleased with the amount of improvements that'll ship with WoD. c:

Have you seen the preview of yet another black rock instance? It looks like Cata. TBC was quality and quantity.

[Deleted]

Guys, guys. Let's not forget the 5 raid instances at launch. and 26 raid bosses

[LazarusLong]

Guys, guys. Let's not forget the 5 raid instances at launch. and 26 raid bosses

Seriously? T5 was a placeholder content at launch.

[liam78]

You are the one resorting to insults as you seem to be incapable of arguing your point. See below.

So you're not good enough to beat the challenges, therefore it is not content.

A little more reading and a little less insults (which backfire and make you look terrible) and you would be one iota closer to a productive conversation.

It might take you a millennia, but I task you with that challenge.

I'll break it down so that you can understand simple words:

It's really hard not to laugh at your ranting considering it's illogical

Now, we got that out of the way.

3) Don't put words in anyone's mouth. Please show me where I said an enrage timer made more content. Timers don't prevent something from being content, as you suggested. It's a dungeon. Guess what? That makes it content. Adding the timers and also flat scaling (which you conveniently overlooked) is what provides the challenge/goal for that content. It's really hard not to laugh at your ranting considering it's illogical and stuffed with attempts at insults which fail by nature of sourced absurdity.

lol
Where did I say that you said enrage timer makes more content? I did not. You may wanna try to re-read that sentence. "I" said challenge timer, like enrage timer, does not make more content. A timer, in general, does not make content. What part of this do you not understand?

I think you just missed the point that I used your own logic to invalidate your opinion.

In your post, you make it sound like I claimed putting an enrage/challenge timer on a boss would disqualify that boss as content. That is the basis of you "so-called argument" that you think invalidates my point. It is completely irrelevant to what I claim.

Let me explain to you one more time. Having one dungeon available in normal mode and then in challenge mode is not more content than having the same dungeon in normal mode only. Slapping a challenge timer on a dungeon does not create additional content. 1 dungeon with 1 mode or 2 modes is still 1 dungeon. Similarly, a boss with or without an enrage timer is the same content. Enrage timer does not create additional content. That is my point, now is that clear? You may disagree, but please stop with the insults, just makes you look bad.

[Deficineiron]

Really? Murmur was a single mechanic boss?

And some BC trash made for more complex fights than other expansions' dungeon bosses. If your group was in blues, many of those heroics took a couple hours to finish.

You're discrediting yourself with every self-promoting post. You had to make it through the heroics before you could do the raids, and BC heroics without raid gear were challenging. Saying "Nah, they were SO crappy and easy" just makes me think you're full of crap and probably didn't even play in BC- or you're just begging for attention.

This is the BC I remember - and that is on the 'doable' heroics - slave pens, first floor of mechanar. If you went into black morass heroic with a party in blues, you might not clear the first portal before the 2nd was opened. Your same group in blues was going to have a lot of work in normal shadow labs.

This 'tbc heroics were easy' attitude didn't begin to appear until a few years ago. I am strongly inclined to suspect many of those attitudes come from people who didn't step foot in one until they were a lvl 70 in 4.x or something similar.

[Kathranis]

Guys, guys. Let's not forget the 5 raid instances at launch. and 26 raid bosses

Burning Crusade had a lot of raid content at launch but most of it was unfinished and not even itemized. It also was severely lacking in patch content.

And if you want to get into the nitty gritty, even though it launched with 14 dungeons, there were only four different dungeon kits: Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang Resevoir, Auchindoun, and Tempest Keep. The CoT dungeons reused existing geography.

Three of the five launch raids also shared those kits (Mannoroth's Lair, Serpentshrine Cavern, and The Eye).

Almost all of the boss models were also reused. There were only a handful of unique boss models in the whole expansion.

[Pejo]

This is the BC I remember - and that is on the 'doable' heroics - slave pens, first floor of mechanar. If you went into black morass heroic with a party in blues, you might not clear the first portal before the 2nd was opened. Your same group in blues was going to have a lot of work in normal shadow labs.

This 'tbc heroics were easy' attitude didn't begin to appear until a few years ago. I am strongly inclined to suspect many of those attitudes come from people who didn't step foot in one until they were a lvl 70 in 4.x or something similar.

That is bullshit. TBC wasn't as hard as people here are stating it was. I tanked PUGS as well as guild runs and the only time I spent 2 hours in a run was if I had someone continually pull in Slabs. The only dungeon that I didn't bother completing until later was Escape from Old Hillsbrad, completing it after 2.4 came out so I could help out a guildie. I didn't overgear anything at the time, and you can even see it on my character. Most runs were ~45-60 min if you had a complete pug, and able to complete others in ~20(Mechanar, not sure if this one even counts for how easy it was)-40 min.

One of my chars that is still wearing mostly blues: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...owpanda/simple

Dungeons were harder than today, that is true - they aren't even close to half the shit you guys are talking in here.

[eillas]

Funny thing is back then, your either raid or pvp in arenas. It was a very narrow path for both of them. Design changed, and more features were added. So focus was taken elsewhere.

[Matt0193]

And of those 14 dungeons, I only ever remember farming Mech (And skipping the Mage), SP, SL and later, MGT. The rest were almost exclusively ignored by anyone who wasn't farming Anzu (SeH) or were doing Arc and ShH for Champion of the Naaru, at least on my server. You occasionally had groups going for the daily HC, unless it was BM in which case you weren't getting a pug for that and you had to rely on your guild to muster up the desire to go. So of the 14 dungeons to start with, I only ever saw 3 (As I didn't far Anzu and only did Arc/SH once for Champion) for much of the expansion. Yep, epic use of resources that could've gone into making more detailed or simply lengthier dungeons.

[Tiev]

Most? No, not most. Maybe 2-3 were ever truly avoided and that was by bad players (Arcatraz, Shattered Halls, Shadow Labs).

LOL if there's something I still remember until today is the famous trade chat phrase:


There is no S in Shadow Lab.

[Bryntrollian]

If you don't like it, why don't you go make your own damned expansion...

[bookhouseboy]

"To that end we’re going to bring back max-level “Normal” dungeons, which—along with Scenarios—will help bridge the gap between level-up quest gear and Heroic dungeons. As Heroics won’t be the first thing you jump into at level 100, it also gives us some room to make Heroic dungeon content a bit more difficult."

Sounds like more of a TBC-approach, and that would be awesome!

[liam78]

Burning Crusade had a lot of raid content at launch but most of it was unfinished and not even itemized. It also was severely lacking in patch content.

And if you want to get into the nitty gritty, even though it launched with 14 dungeons, there were only four different dungeon kits: Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang Resevoir, Auchindoun, and Tempest Keep. The CoT dungeons reused existing geography.

Three of the five launch raids also shared those kits (Mannoroth's Lair, Serpentshrine Cavern, and The Eye).

Almost all of the boss models were also reused. There were only a handful of unique boss models in the whole expansion.

Severely lacking? Mostly because they already had released the raids at launch as you acknowledged.

Black Temple (raid-25man), Netherwing Ledge (quest hub), ZA (raid-10man), Ogrila (quest hub), Skettis (quest hub), Isle of Quel'danas (quest hub), Sunwell Plateau (raid-25).

I did not do a quantitative comparison with other expansions, but I think TBC released sufficient content in patches. Total content amount (at launch+patch content) was fine.

Raid content may not have been as polished, but they had fixed it way before most guilds got to it.

In vanilla and TBC, it was the way they made dungeon complexes. Like BRD, LBRS, UBRS, MC, BWL in vanilla. Those instances were congruent in their art and had a coherent theme. Is it SUCH a big deal that people belabor it on every thread?

Now we get half the number of dungeons. I'd rather get another 7 similar looking dungeons than not get them at all. Those extra dungeons do not take away from the game. 7 additional dungeons with similar art may not add as much as 7 unique dungeons to the game, but 14 dungeons in 7 themes is still better than 7 dungeons in 7 themes.

[eillas]

I do recall patch 2.2 literally had no content other then a unused voice chat.

[Abstieg]

I do recall patch 2.2 literally had no content other then a unused voice chat.

Oh voice chat.