WoW or FFXIV

[Echo of Soul]

Yeah the community in FF14 so far has been WAY better. Today we wiped a bunch on Hard Mode Bismarck, so much that we didn't kill him till there was about 5 minutes left on the timer. But there was no "OMG YOU SUCK" type non sense in chat. A couple people ninja quit, to be expected, but we gently discussed what needed to be fixed/done in order to kill it. In WoW the entire group would have cursed each other out before bailing after 1-2 wipes.

In dungeons as well, everyone I've come across has been pleasant. We even had this one god awful tank but people were actually trying to help him telling him what to do to hold threat better, instead of like in WoW where they would have trashed him to death before trying to votekick him.

That's been my feeling aswell. I even find my own behavior changing to a more helpful one when I play the game.

[Granyala]

Yeah the community in FF14 so far has been WAY better. Today we wiped a bunch on Hard Mode Bismarck, so much that we didn't kill him till there was about 5 minutes left on the timer. But there was no "OMG YOU SUCK" type non sense in chat. A couple people ninja quit, to be expected, but we gently discussed what needed to be fixed/done in order to kill it. In WoW the entire group would have cursed each other out before bailing after 1-2 wipes.

In dungeons as well, everyone I've come across has been pleasant. We even had this one god awful tank but people were actually trying to help him telling him what to do to hold threat better, instead of like in WoW where they would have trashed him to death before trying to votekick him.

Mostly people are more patient, yes.
Personally I explain, no problem.
I only get pissed when people ignore what I say and keep failing.

[Tezha]

FFXIV is overall more yay than WoW but they both got their things going for them.

FF seems to be a more serious older brother (even if it isnt "older") and has people that are a but more understanding and perhaps adult?

like some people mentions, people don't ragequit that much, although in 5 mans and even some LFR's in WoD that I did people failed and apologized, got tips and help instead of the cusswars, and those who seemed to try a cusswar some times even had half the raid go against them and vote them out immidiately.

In any sense it does seem like WoW's community too (no time to late I guess...) are fed up with the cussing whiners that are like cancer in the community.

Both are good yay games, I just wish more of the people I play with everyday would play FFXIV as well, because alone it is a bit boring at times, and I personally dread playing alone these days, meeting and talking to people is what I enjoy.

[Wrecktangle]

It is some similar mechanics, but as you see the FF bosses are being compared to some of the simpler fights in WoW. One reason Wow will always have more varied mechanics is simply because they design so many unique boss fights to fill a whole tier. There are simply more bosses.

I compared the 1st 3 bosses of Mythic BRF to the 1st boss of savage alex. I compared the simplest FF14 fight to the simplest WoW fight... I don't disagree with your second point. In fact I flat out agreed to it in my previous post. I asked you what makes FF14 mechanics bland? I gave a concrete list of examples of how these fights use similar mechanics, yet you call one bland and not the other? I'm still stumped how you struggle killing heroic bosses in HFC, but are progressing on A4S. Heroic difficulty was a complete and utter joke until Furnace and Blackhand (remember I quit before 6.2), and even then I killed both on one Sunday with pugs and some perseverance.

The one thing that FF is doing that WoW stopped doing was designing fights with fairly easy to manage mechanics, but hard gear checks, where WoW has drifted towards managing mechanics. While gear does make a fight significantly easier, WoW hasn't had a "you can't beat this boss until your raid reaches this item level" boss in a long time. Of course your raid needs to have a sufficient item level for the tier, but that's easily accomplished by just having gear from the previous tier, or if it's the first of an expansion, the dungeon gear. As I said, preferring to design boss fights around mechanics more than numbers.

Another poster already brought this point home, but it's because of splitting raids they can almost completely bypass the gear requirements until the final few bosses.

You can beat bosses without the gear. It requires top play, perfect execution, and out of the box strategies. This is absolutely no different than WoW. The only real difference is how much more effective loot splitting is in WoW vs. FF14.

[TheCount]

FFXIV is overall more yay than WoW but they both got their things going for them.

FF seems to be a more serious older brother (even if it isnt "older") and has people that are a but more understanding and perhaps adult?

like some people mentions, people don't ragequit that much, although in 5 mans and even some LFR's in WoD that I did people failed and apologized, got tips and help instead of the cusswars, and those who seemed to try a cusswar some times even had half the raid go against them and vote them out immidiately.

In any sense it does seem like WoW's community too (no time to late I guess...) are fed up with the cussing whiners that are like cancer in the community.

Both are good yay games, I just wish more of the people I play with everyday would play FFXIV as well, because alone it is a bit boring at times, and I personally dread playing alone these days, meeting and talking to people is what I enjoy.

WoW seemed to go the extreme route in terms of community with the introduction of LFR. Prior to lfr, you had to make your own group for anything. This meant that you had to actively seek people out, people that could cooperate and had the skill to do the content(easy or hard). If someone in group was being an ass or ninja dropped then you would basically just blacklist that person, he would have a much harder time finding groups. With LFR that basically goes away sense everyone is basically just "DPS#1"-"DPS#2"-"Tank#1". If dps#2 is being an ass then you would kick him, but he would still just reque and keep his bad behavior.

FFXIV does have that same problem, you can keep being an ass without fear of being blacklisted. Its an innate problem with an sort of LFR system. Right now FFXIV has a smaller community which does mean less asshats. I do agree that its more geared for a mature playerbase. In this game lvling is a major source of content and does take a fair amount of time to hit max lvl, most of the toxic people just want to hit max and start the end game stuff(how else will they brag about being awesome?) which in this game takes time to do.

[Echo of Soul]

In this game lvling is a major source of content and does take a fair amount of time to hit max lvl, most of the toxic people just want to hit max and start the end game stuff(how else will they brag about being awesome?) which in this game takes time to do.

Which means they most likely quit before reaching end game (thank god )

[Lathais]

WoW seemed to go the extreme route in terms of community with the introduction of LFR. Prior to lfr, you had to make your own group for anything. This meant that you had to actively seek people out, people that could cooperate and had the skill to do the content(easy or hard). If someone in group was being an ass or ninja dropped then you would basically just blacklist that person, he would have a much harder time finding groups. With LFR that basically goes away sense everyone is basically just "DPS#1"-"DPS#2"-"Tank#1". If dps#2 is being an ass then you would kick him, but he would still just reque and keep his bad behavior.

FFXIV does have that same problem, you can keep being an ass without fear of being blacklisted. Its an innate problem with an sort of LFR system. Right now FFXIV has a smaller community which does mean less asshats. I do agree that its more geared for a mature playerbase. In this game lvling is a major source of content and does take a fair amount of time to hit max lvl, most of the toxic people just want to hit max and start the end game stuff(how else will they brag about being awesome?) which in this game takes time to do.

Except that's not true. If people kick you for anything other than harassment/trolling or being afk, you can report them and they will be suspended. If someone is an asshat in a raid you can report them and they are actually punished. If someone calls you out for poor performance on DPS meters or lack of following mechanics, you can report them and they get suspended/banned. The team at FFXIV actually take these things pretty seriously and repeat offenses do get you banned. One suspension on something like this tends to straighten a player out. If not, they get banned. So it's not really like WoW at all, where these asshats walk around unpunished all the time so they do it more which in turn encourages others to behave the same. It's really looked down upon in FFXIV though, so those that do it stop and do not encourage others to do the same.

[TheCount]

That's good to know, I don't have much experience or know much about the kick system in FFXIV. The way its set up seems to work, to date I have not ran anything in which I have had to kick someone for negative behavior. A streak I hope that can keep going.

Its nice to see that SE is doing something that deters toxic behavior and at this moment it seems to be working

[Granyala]

If someone calls you out for [...] lack of following mechanics, you can report them and they get suspended/banned.

Getting banned for telling someone that he is failing a mechanic? No way that will ever happen.

@TheCount: if you are able to read the group chat, no one will kick you. If you do something wrong people tell you how to do it right 99% of the time. They don't just kick you.

[Jaese]

Getting banned for telling someone that he is failing a mechanic? No way that will ever happen.

@TheCount: if you are able to read the group chat, no one will kick you. If you do something wrong people tell you how to do it right 99% of the time. They don't just kick you.

I believe they were saying being toxic about pointing out mechanics failures instead of being helpful.

[Lathais]

I believe they were saying being toxic about pointing out mechanics failures instead of being helpful.

Yeah, calling people out on it. If you simply explain it to them, no worries. If you are calling them out on it and being an asshat about it though, and they report you, yeah, you'll get suspended and repeat offenses will get you banned. Being helpful will not. However, if you are being helpful and they are still not getting it and you boot them....it's a gray area but according to them you can not boot someone for failing mechanics. You either help them through it or leave yourself. Those are your options.

[Cattleya]

Yeah, calling people out on it. If you simply explain it to them, no worries. If you are calling them out on it and being an asshat about it though, and they report you, yeah, you'll get suspended and repeat offenses will get you banned. Being helpful will not. However, if you are being helpful and they are still not getting it and you boot them....it's a gray area but according to them you can not boot someone for failing mechanics. You either help them through it or leave yourself. Those are your options.

There's a difference between calling people out on it and being a dick about it. Saying they're doing it wrong and explaining the right way to them is "calling them out" too

[Granyala]

However, if you are being helpful and they are still not getting it and you boot them....it's a gray area but according to them you can not boot someone for failing mechanics. You either help them through it or leave yourself. Those are your options.

If what you are saying were true, half the games population would be banned by now.

Don't confuse what you would want the regulations to be like with what the regulations actually are.

You can boot s/o for all kinds of things, nothing will ever happen to you because the majority of the party has to agree with the one initiating the votekick (and this is your "protection" against unwarranted kicks).
If I want to boot you b/c your transmog is ugly, that votekick won't go through. If I boot you because you are failing and failing, holding the group back, despite our best efforts of explaining, you will find your incompetent butt outside of the dungeon rather quickly, b/c the rest of the group will be pissed too.

But a player calling your name and calmly stating in chat (for all to see) that you failed on mechanic X in order to explain why we did just wipe, is NOT "toxic behavior", will never be "toxic behavior" and most certainly will never be a ban warranting offense. If he throws a temper tantrum, well that's another matter entirely.

What they sanction are plain old insults, like in every other multiplayer game.

[Lathais]

If what you are saying were true, half the games population would be banned by now.

Don't confuse what you would want the regulations to be like with what the regulations actually are.

You can boot s/o for all kinds of things, nothing will ever happen to you because the majority of the party has to agree with the one initiating the votekick (and this is your "protection" against unwarranted kicks).
If I want to boot you b/c your transmog is ugly, that votekick won't go through. If I boot you because you are failing and failing, holding the group back, despite our best efforts of explaining, you will find your incompetent butt outside of the dungeon rather quickly, b/c the rest of the group will be pissed too.

But a player calling your name and calmly stating in chat (for all to see) that you failed on mechanic X in order to explain why we did just wipe, is NOT "toxic behavior", will never be "toxic behavior" and most certainly will never be a ban warranting offense. If he throws a temper tantrum, well that's another matter entirely.

What they sanction are plain old insults, like in every other multiplayer game.

I am not confusing them with what I want them to be. The reason a lot of these players are not banned is because people do not know that they can report for these things and something will actually be done. If someone is failing mechanics and you are wiping over because of it and you decide to kick that player, if he reports it you can and will get a warning. If you get enough warnings you will get suspended. If you get enough suspensions, you will get banned. The thing is, most players do not realize that you CAN report simply for being kicked. You do not have to believe me if you do not want to, that's fine.

[Granyala]

If someone is failing mechanics and you are wiping over because of it and you decide to kick that player, if he reports it you can and will get a warning.

If a GM were to warn me because of it, I would call his sanity into question.
But I guess there are people that think crap like this is making "a good community" lol.

[Wrecktangle]

A lot of you guys have misconceptions about what is "calling someone out".

Calling someone out is not abuse. You do not get banned or suspended for it. You do not get banned or suspended for booting someone either (within the realm of this discussion, if you abuse kick for loot/other reasons you can get in trouble). The only thing you get in trouble for is repeated and aggressive or violent abuse.

I'll give you an example: One player is constantly dead, or causing us a wipe by failing a mechanic and wiping other players. We've given him several chances and coached him through his errors, but no progress has been made.

1) One of the members then says: "Mr. X we need to replace you because we are unable to clear this boss with you in our group. You should try to create or join a few learning parties to master the mechanics before stepping foot in another clear/farm party. Best of luck.".

2) Same situation, but the member instead says " Jesus christ you ****ing failure. We're never going to kill this boss because of you, so please do us all a favor and jump off a bridge and leave so we can kill this without you, otherwise you're getting booted.

#1 gives you no punishment, #2 is what gets you suspended.

Source? I've done #1 countless times while pugging, even citing ACT DPS values if necessary. Surely I'd have been suspended by now, especially with the way some of the players responded to me. Surely I'd have been banned for calling someone out numerous times, or calling low or bad dps out, but no bans or suspensions and I've been doing it for a while now.

[DeadmanWalking]

Ffxiv has an LFR, you randomly queue up and if you fail you get a % boost to make your next attempt more successful. You are forced to do these trials and MSQ events just to get to heavensward so unlike lfr it is not optional. I know it doesn't fit some peoples narrative that LFR causes the problems in wow but FfXIV has an LFR too and does not have the same level of toxicity as wow so plainly the problem isn't the existence of LFR since it and random dungeon group finder exist in both games and yet there is s marked difference in the communities of both games.

[Echocho]

Ffxiv has an LFR, you randomly queue up and if you fail you get a % boost to make your next attempt more successful. You are forced to do these trials and MSQ events just to get to heavensward so unlike lfr it is not optional. I know it doesn't fit some peoples narrative that LFR causes the problems in wow but FfXIV has an LFR too and does not have the same level of toxicity as wow so plainly the problem isn't the existence of LFR since it and random dungeon group finder exist in both games and yet there is s marked difference in the communities of both games.

The groups are smaller and the difficulty higher so everyone actually has to contribute and stay alive.

[Jack Hatchet]

Blizzard bans botters, but FFXIV doesn't.

[DeadmanWalking]

The groups are smaller and the difficulty higher so everyone actually has to contribute and stay alive.

Difficulty counts on the fight, some of them I have seen done by 4 people because the other 4 got locked out. Regardless the % goes up if you loose so eventually you auto win even if half the group is dead. I know that doesn't fit the narrative but that's the facts even if they are facts you don't want to hear.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard bans botters, but FFXIV doesn't.

In the last 5 years I have been sent a tell from a blizzard gold seller exactly 0 times. In ffxiv if I stay online all day I get 25-50 whispers to buy gold from either hacked accounts or accounts where they spam, delete, spam, delete into infinity.