I dont understand how BC wont be released on top of Classic... What am I not seeing?

[lummiuster]

Honestly me I liked TBC much more. The designers who made classic also made TBC hence the game is as good (as much mystery). They added lots of things to fix severe unbalance (I like unbalance but at least shity class are a bit more relevant).
I believe we should not impose TBC on anyone though. People cried to have their vanilla for years, let them have it and keep it.

[Rigald]

Two issues:
- if you allowed people to 'copy' their account to a new TBC launch server, you'd split your player base further -- classic + TBC. some people wouldn't move, and you're dilluting your 'retro' playerbase.
- if you progressed the classic servers in place (like happened in real life), you'd lose the classic experience. so you're then forced to re-launch classic in 2-4 years when people want to go back to a pure vanilla experience.

Finally, there's even mentality shifts between Classic and TBC which some people don't like:

- areanas becoming a pvp focus (and resilience)
- the introduction of daily quests
- more streamlined/linear questing; quest hubs are introduced
- flying mounts
- heroic dungeons.

I'm not sure what the path forward is. I remember TBC being a breath of fresh air when it launched and it fixed many things, but now playing unfiltered classic once again I'm suddenly looking at TBC with open eyes and realizing some of the optimizations were the seeds that lead to retail's current state. we were better off without flying, dailies, and heroic dungeons, and the optimized quest hubs are a bit predictable as opposed to the awkward, world spanning (but character building) questing of Vanilla.

Flying only in the new world, for the rest it seems normal stuff that people are not complaining about? I would say the seeds are mostly in WOTLK
I see the point for resilience but if you are a pvp player, it was extremely frustrating to get killed by someone with some T4 or whatever with your full stuff pvp gear that took you an eternity to get so resilience helped a lot in that regard

[agentsi]

They would make WAY more money if they made Classic servers, that stayed Classic. Then TBC servers that stayed TBC, and so on. I know tons of people would prefer to play on only MoP or Wotlk servers. But if these are basically, just really long TLPs, they will die very very fast. As folks will wait for the timeline they wish to play the most, then level up.

[lummiuster]

Two issues:
- if you allowed people to 'copy' their account to a new TBC launch server, you'd split your player base further -- classic + TBC. some people wouldn't move, and you're dilluting your 'retro' playerbase.
- if you progressed the classic servers in place (like happened in real life), you'd lose the classic experience. so you're then forced to re-launch classic in 2-4 years when people want to go back to a pure vanilla experience.

Finally, there's even mentality shifts between Classic and TBC which some people don't like:

- areanas becoming a pvp focus (and resilience)
- the introduction of daily quests
- more streamlined/linear questing; quest hubs are introduced
- flying mounts
- heroic dungeons.

I'm not sure what the path forward is. I remember TBC being a breath of fresh air when it launched and it fixed many things, but now playing unfiltered classic once again I'm suddenly looking at TBC with open eyes and realizing some of the optimizations were the seeds that lead to retail's current state. we were better off without flying, dailies, and heroic dungeons, and the optimized quest hubs are a bit predictable as opposed to the awkward, world spanning (but character building) questing of Vanilla.

You're right. The thing is yes there are many things we wish we had from TBC. Also many things I really disliked. Arenas being one that I hated. I loved to have stranglethorn/tanaris/hillsbrad as my only source of pvp. But we need to progress, cant play the same shit for 2 years lol.
So I think Classic+ would be the right way to go. This way they can learn from their mistake and gives us content without the bad stuff. Imo the class design in TBC were the best.

[Rigald]

They would make WAY more money if they made Classic servers, that stayed Classic. Then TBC servers that stayed TBC, and so on. I know tons of people would prefer to play on only MoP or Wotlk servers. But if these are basically, just really long TLPs, they will die very very fast. As folks will wait for the timeline they wish to play the most, then level up.

We separate the players so much with this, I'm not so sure about it

[codeGnave]

One of the main reasons they made classic servers, the content lost to the cataclysm, isnt there for tbc and wrath.
Sure they systems from those times are different now, but the quests dungeons and raids are almost all there.
There are other reasons to rerelease tbc, but having 3 or more versions of the game up at once seems like a bad idea for population levels.

[Nathasil]

TBC servers will come 6-10 months after Naxx opened.
WotLK servers will come 6-10 months after sunwell opened.

If Cataclysm ever comes depends on the extend of Blizzard's despair at this point.

[Mirishka]

Okay so I need some help here. Couple of threads now talking about how Blizzard will be stupid to release BC as an xpac on top of Classic.

I dont understand whats so stupid about it. People want the "Classic experience", sure. But then what?

Like is everyone on the server just going to farm the same instances over and over, and be geared to the teeth, just to do what? Run around in your awesome gear and kill the same things that you pretty much have on farm and have no use for since you already own every piece?

I guess what im asking is, whats the end game? What am I not seeing?

We level up, we raid, we are full geared... Alts? Whats next?

Blizz has already said its something they were considering, and that it would depend on how successful Classic is (and it is clearly a massive success already). So I feel pretty confident that we will see BC servers - I just hope they are standalone, that WoW Classic is left intact.

[Huzzaa]

I'm just going to post this here.... that

I won't be playing classic but if they release BC, hell yeah, count me in.

[Zenfoldor]

TBC servers will come 6-10 months after Naxx opened.
WotLK servers will come 6-10 months after sunwell opened.

If Cataclysm ever comes depends on the extend of Blizzard's despair at this point.

I think they will plan them around end of expansion content droughts instead of phases from previous classic servers.

Also, I expect Blizzard to brag about how well Classic has done at Blizzcon.

[Benomatic]

Because people wanted classic just for classic alone.

[Kralljin]

This is a point I've been making as well. Wrath brought many game design changes, whereas BC changes were more QoL changes, class balance, and improving class mechanics that were frustrating for frustrations sake.

This is in my opinion a misconception that mainly applies to the (PvE) Endgame of the game.

First off, BC removed a lot of the more "special" things about classic.

For example, the quest structure of was almost entirely reworked, the quest were easy and accessible.
Part of the charm of Vanilla questing that it was less structured, that you had to look for new quests, do a couple of pre quests in order to receive quests for a dungeon and so forth.
Most of that was already thrown out of the window with TBC.

Also, quest rewards were heavily improved, whereas in Vanilla, only a handful of quests gave you any upgrades to begin with, TBC gave a shit ton of rewards.
Actually good rewards (including weapons) on top of that, removing a massive incentive to run dungeons during the leveling process.

Dungeon design itself was also heavily altered, whereas Vanilla dungeons had some sort of "pre dungeon", that was entirely removed with TBC, you didn't meet before the Dungeon, but rather inside it.
Dungeons also became more streamlined, whereas Vanilla dungeons like Maraudon and BRD felt like one massive dungeons, TBC were extremely small, the overall layout of TBC and Wotlk 5man Dungeons is made out of the same cloth, just the class gameplay was altered between these two expansions.

There is probably a reason why there's no classic timewalking, because basically all of those "fan favorite" dungeons from classic are such a massive breakaway from the dungeon design that Blizzard wants for timewalking dungeons.


It also introduced the concept of multiple difficulties, while some may say that TBC was "okay" due to Heroic dungeons being rather difficult, the can of worms was opened there.

Arena also remain a rather controversial introduction, while most have swallowed that pill, i believe that in hindsight, placing the focus of PvP Balance onto Arena was a mistake, the idea of a pure deathmatch forced classes into certain roles and in general made it a requirement that every class / spec has access to a certain tool, such as interrupts, offensive cd's, defensive cd's, etc..


At first glance, i would generally agree that TBC could be seen as "Vanilla +", but once you take a deeper look, you realize how many (controversial) changes were already set up in TBC, there just were not as obvious because the overall gameplay / combat still had a very Vanilla esque touch.

[Zyrinx]

When does it end then? You're going to have people who love BC...then you're going to have people who want WotLK....there are even a few people who loved WoD.

Who is the judge where it starts and where it ends? Do you want them to do a 10+ year run of going from Vanilla to BFA and beyond again?

Yeah this right here.

I mean if I was at Blizzard right now, I'd be trying to recreate the Classic buzz (which is def. real at least for now) for, like, actual WoW, so as to move forward and not backward.

[Halyon]

You really don't see how this is in all likelyhood going to fracture the playerbase into oblivion? People only have so much time, and mmo's require a pretty substantial amount of time-investment. So people will have to choose what to either dedicate themselves to, almost exclusively, or they constantly flip-flop between a few of them, and making the evolving wow worth playing at any normal+ difficulty a very painful experience, nevertheless developing it. They may be their own seperate entities if you cut it down to the bone, but it's done by 1 company, who can't endlessly hire people. And they'd much rather pay their CEO's than their workhorses.

Also, money can't buy time.

[Fred Skinner]

no, if theres tbc realms you should have to start all over again at 1

Because leveling is as dull as in classic?

[Kyphael]

I'd be more interested in a Classic+ route to go, similar to what OSRS did. New content and raids in the style and mindset of Classic WoW

Hear, hear! I might actually be encouraged to level to 60 if that were to happen, as opposed to knowing I'd just be running through BC content which is already available in retail via Timewalking (dungeons and Black Temple.)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I predict the orginal trilogy will happen. If they each have even half the hype of Classic then its worth it to spin them up and drop them during the slower release cycles at Blizzard. Would basically be printing money during a time when you normally are just riding it out.

After that you get into dicey territory but why not just release them if they keep printing money. If they keep adding value to the monthly sub. If they add even a slight retention?

[Dergiab]

They have actually said at least twice that they are open to release TBC.

[toffmcsoft]

Classic+ is the best route to take, TBC will divide the player base too much and introduces elements such as flying which killed the game.
The advantage of Classic+ is the world can stay within Azeroth which will make the World continue to feel like a World.

Once TBC is introduced everything In Azeroth becomes obsolete.

- - - Updated - - -

TBC servers will come 6-10 months after Naxx opened.
WotLK servers will come 6-10 months after sunwell opened.

If Cataclysm ever comes depends on the extend of Blizzard's despair at this point.

You forgot that Classic+ will come 10 months after Naxx opens.

[Bhanzai]

TBC servers will happen without a doubt. Since it took a couple years to get classic out I wouldn't be surprised if TBC was announced at blizzcon, giving them a couple years to get it ready by the time the last classic phase has been out a few months.