Why are Moonkins so persecuted and few?

[Nargoron]

Play whatever you want...
Just keep in mind that due to bad balance, you have to spent more time and money for consumables.
I would rather have in raid boomkin with knowledge then mage without clue what is going on.

[NihilSustinet]

So I was in BRD runs and a Moonkin was getting harassed by our healer saying the moonkin was a waste of a group slot and telling the moonkin to reroll Resto if she ever wanted a group.
She told him that she likes playing the game how she wanted before getting kicked and the healer told me and others to blacklist her.

She was topping dps chart though. Why do people hate moonkins so much?

they can do decent damage against trash mobs because they can multidot everything, but against single targets their damage sucks and they run out of mana quickly.

[josykay]

Agreed. BiS lists are not a substitute for good judgment. If you are going to follow a BiS list, you should at least know why that item is on the list, as opposed to following it blindly. BiS lists are not gospel. I miss the days people theorycrafted how certain gear pieces synergized together, rather than looking at every slot individually.

Also, quite often for cloth wearers/ casters in particular, it is just not desired to pursue the BIS items listed. Like sure, technically the BIS cloak for Warlocks is archivar's cape of shadow wrath. But it drops like every 200 runs. And it gives me 4Mp/5, which I do not need like at all... the +21 shadow damage green cloak is nearly exactly as beneficial for warlocks. It honestly just sucks to pursue those god damn blue items with a random enchant on top of it.

[Iphilyadude]

I mean, he's not wrong...is he a dick? yes..is he wrong? no.

Why take a boomkin who will do sub par damage,have to drink after every pull,bring no real form of CC and only offers Ranged crit change. When you could bring a mage who does more dmg, can make food/water, CC, best AOE dmg in the game(Which makes dngs go faster), solid ST dmg, Int buff and portals for after. A warlock who brings solid ST and AOE, healthstones, A battle rez, summons just incase, CC, Blood pact stamins bonus and a Voidwalker incase the tanks having issues.

The fact is, you can say what he did about a lot of classes. Why bring a ret when you can bring a rogue? People warned players this would happen, you need to just accept it if you're going to go down that path and play a spec that is seen as 1 spec only(Paladins,Shaman,Druids are all seen as healers and only healers) and not get your feelings hurt when people call you out on it.
As a mage, i'd love a boomkin in our raids for the crit buff. I wouldn't take one to a dng though

No real form of CC? Entangling roots and soothe?
No utility? Innervate for the healer, battle res, crit buff, and the ability to off tank / heal.
Having to drink in between pulls? Who cares?

What makes food/water, portals, and an int buff better than any of these?

In classic while not every spec is ideal for a raiding situation theres pros/cons to every class / spec you bring in a dungeon and most of them work completely fine. I would never make a big deal out of having a mage over a moonkin in a 5 man or vice versa, they’ll both bring unique buffs and decent damage to the table either way.

[msdos]

Moonkin, like Elemental, is an end-game PVP spec. You're a caster with extremely high armor, can heal yourself and you can regen your teammates mana in combat. You pair well with Warlocks and Hunters because they compensate for your weaknesses and are strong against your counters.

[Annelie]

So I was in BRD runs and a Moonkin was getting harassed by our healer saying the moonkin was a waste of a group slot and telling the moonkin to reroll Resto if she ever wanted a group.
She told him that she likes playing the game how she wanted before getting kicked and the healer told me and others to blacklist her.

She was topping dps chart though. Why do people hate moonkins so much?

The person harassing her/him and the one kicking him/her should get a big fat ban just because of how they acted.

Moonkins are bad in raids because the go OOM asap, but in dungeons it makes no damn difference.

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It is actually irrelevant for dungeons, they have to regen more often, but whatever. Still, once you want to raid you are pretty much useless.

So do mages, i spend more time drinking than anything else when doing dungeons.

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In this case your healer is the problem and not the Moonkin. Who's that healer to judge? Gosh, those people ruin Classic. I'd rather blacklist that healer than the Moonkin.

Yea, classic is very very toxic sadly.

[Specialka]

No real form of CC? Entangling roots and soothe?
No utility? Innervate for the healer, battle res, crit buff, and the ability to off tank / heal.
Having to drink in between pulls? Who cares?

What makes food/water, portals, and an int buff better than any of these?

In classic while not every spec is ideal for a raiding situation theres pros/cons to every class / spec you bring in a dungeon and most of them work completely fine. I would never make a big deal out of having a mage over a moonkin in a 5 man or vice versa, they’ll both bring unique buffs and decent damage to the table either way.

Roots only work outdoor and soothe only on beats (maybe dragon?). So very situational.

[shaunika123]

They can't use their spells as they are OOM in barely seconds else and do even worse damage.

They can't use their dots in raids because of the few dot slots that are possible and they do less than othes classes dot's. (Same reason you can't play Affliction in raids).

just for the record

affliction is the highest dps warlock spec with or without dots.

- - - Updated - - -

No real form of CC? Entangling roots and soothe?
No utility? Innervate for the healer, battle res, crit buff, and the ability to off tank / heal.
Having to drink in between pulls? Who cares?

What makes food/water, portals, and an int buff better than any of these?

In classic while not every spec is ideal for a raiding situation theres pros/cons to every class / spec you bring in a dungeon and most of them work completely fine. I would never make a big deal out of having a mage over a moonkin in a 5 man or vice versa, they’ll both bring unique buffs and decent damage to the table either way.

most of that utility is worthless in raids:

cant root indoors (so every single raid besides zg and aq20)
hibernate only works in ZG
if you use innervate on the healer you run out of mana when the boss is on 70%
and the crit buff is only for your own party and that 3% crit hardly makes up for a whole caster that does more dps.

now in 5 mans they're fine, hell they're pretty good, so no idea why they'd kick him, but idiots exist.

[josykay]

just for the record

affliction is the highest dps warlock spec with or without dots.

Isn't Demonic Sacrifice better than Shadow Mastery in DPS terms? Particulary since Nightfall is proc dependent and needs a corruption applied to to the target.
(It is stronger in Trash fights though, since you can apply multiple corruptions, which can proc Nightfall. And offers more utility due to the Imp pet, so you should have, at least one SM warlock in the raid for your tanks).

[TwoMana]

Sounds like a random encounter to me. That could just as well have been on retail. There are entitled toxic cunts on both retail and classic (And every other online game there is), sometimes you run into them, sometimes you dont.

Sure. There are assholes everywhere, but as I said earlier, retail has built in tools to handle this.
There are summoning stones outside dungeons. You can teleport in/out of random dungeons etc.

[Phantombeard]

So I was in BRD runs and a Moonkin was getting harassed by our healer saying the moonkin was a waste of a group slot and telling the moonkin to reroll Resto if she ever wanted a group.
She told him that she likes playing the game how she wanted before getting kicked and the healer told me and others to blacklist her.

She was topping dps chart though. Why do people hate moonkins so much?

There is even a sadder side to this story than the moonkin hate. That Moonkin most likely quit WOW. I mean think about it. IF you really loved your class and all of a sudden you wasn't getting invited and when you did crap like this happened. What reason is there to continue playing. Its not like Blizz is gonna do something about Moonkin mana regen. #nochanges amiright. Poor Girl. Nothing but love for you if you read this.

[anon5123]

Your other DPS must have been truly awful if they were losing to a moonkin.

Moonkin are just half-rate mages with severe mana issues, that's why they are so persecuted.

[Keashaa]

I don't get it.

The general assumption is: Moonkins are bad because they run out of mana too fast.
Back in the times:

time until boss was defeated: X seconds
time until moonkin ran out of mana: Y seconds
-> time moonkins couldn't dps: X-Y seconds

Today:
time until boss is defeated: X-Z seconds (bosses die very fast today)
time until moonkin runs out of mana: still Y seconds
-> time moonkins can't dps: X-(Y+Z) seconds

So today the time a moonkin can't dps is significant lower because bosses die very fast. Lower downtime = gain of dps
-> moonkin can be played like any other dps role

[Resheph]

Back in Vanilla I tried Boomkin for a few levels in the high 40 range but it felt really weak compared to Feral so i switched back. With the pre-TBC invasion event more AOE was needed when i grouped with a warrior so I switched back to Moonkin at 60 and found that Hurricane and Moonfire melted large groups of mobs in no time. Come TBC I kept the Moonkin spec and the experience was way better, plus the utility of the class was much appreciated in raids.

That said, I understand the (douchy) healer, many people are going back to for Classic to "do it right this time", and they have no time/patience for people playing sub-optimal specs. That's just as valid an attitude as just playing whatever you want. Both have consequences, in this case the "purist" was leader and could (and should) decide who to play with in his group. Why would his fun matter less than the other players'?

[Acolyyte]

Which is why Blizzard has, over the years, built systems to mitigate these problems (voting systems, automated grouping for certain content, easier difficulty levels etc).
But Classic was supposed to be "about the journey" and the community was supposed to be "pure" and not have the problems retail has.

Yeah. That didn't last.

Assholes are everywhere. However, Classic is far better than retail in terms of community and people helping one another. You can carry this torch if you want, but the simple fact is that Classic has a much healthier and positive vibe than retail does at this moment in time.

[anon5123]

I don't get it.

The general assumption is: Moonkins are bad because they run out of mana too fast.
Back in the times:

time until boss was defeated: X seconds
time until moonkin ran out of mana: Y seconds
-> time moonkins couldn't dps: X-Y seconds

Today:
time until boss is defeated: X-Z seconds (bosses die very fast today)
time until moonkin runs out of mana: still Y seconds
-> time moonkins can't dps: X-(Y+Z) seconds

So today the time a moonkin can't dps is significant lower because bosses die very fast. Lower downtime = gain of dps
-> moonkin can be played like any other dps role

Moonkin aren't bad solely because of mana problems, they just do less damage than mages/warlocks and their main damage spell isn't affected by various buffs/debuffs that mages/warlocks get.

At best, a tryharding Moonkin can do 40-50% of a mage's DPS.

[ghotihook]

Blacklist the healer, problem solved.
There is literally no reason to prevent any class from playing what they want in classic. Yes, even Ret paladins. The raids are so easy. Our guild did our first MC raid last week and we wiped 3 times on trash. Zero times on bosses.

[Specialka]

Assholes are everywhere. However, Classic is far better than retail in terms of community and people helping one another. You can carry this torch if you want, but the simple fact is that Classic has a much healthier and positive vibe than retail does at this moment in time.

In your opinion.

[Noxina]

In your opinion.

Well, it is opinion vs opinion, so his is as valid as yours. I share his though, I've had mostly good encounters in Classic, whereas in Retail people rarely even say hello when joining a group, and leave after the first wipe.

[ghotihook]

Well, it is opinion vs opinion, so his is as valid as yours. I share his though, I've had mostly good encounters in Classic, whereas in Retail people rarely even say hello when joining a group, and leave after the first wipe.

The biggest thing I've noticed in classic is that people won't leave the group after wipes. When I played retail, if you wipe twice, you have a decent chance that someone will leave. In Classic I have yet to have someone leave because we have wiped too many times (I've been 60 for a week).