By definition a canon character can't be a Mary Sue, it has to be a fan-created character.
That said I agree with everything said.
By definition a canon character can't be a Mary Sue, it has to be a fan-created character.
That said I agree with everything said.
Mary Sue is a term used by incels to insult badly written characters who are female. For decades of badly-written and overpowered male characters in fiction there was no problem somehow, only when it started happening to women is when it suddenly became an issue. If you use the term "Mary Sue" unironically, you should stop and think why you think you need that term.
Apologists will say that there is a similar term for male overpowered characters (Gary Stu) but we all know that's BS and no one ever called anyone that before Mary Sue was invented. Gary Stu only exists for mysognists to excuse their shitty behavior
shit dude, eonar is a titan and can beat almost any character, fuck it shes a "mary sue"
just because a female is powerful doesnt make her a "mary sue" she is literally backed by the jailer who for all we know could be a titan
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rage is one too, saurfang pissed her off
yeast
Sylvanas followed the Hero's Journey. She did become overpowered recently which was distracting to the balanced roleplay of racial leaders, however; this is why she moved into a greater-than role just like Thrall and Jaina (both too OP to be racial leaders). Sylvanas raised herself into a villainous opposite of a powerful faction-neutral mortal like Khadgar or Tirion. I'm not particularly a fan of her current story arc but she is not a Mary Sue by any means.
That's the thing, people are not just mad cause sylvanas is overpowered but because bolvar didn't do anything ever and when he had the chance to do something he just got defeated too.
And Saurfang: He never really had a deathwish just because, he couldn't stand the lies the horde made a secret anymore. He wanted the horde to be true and make everyone see who and what sylvanas is.
All in all, blizzard's fault of bad writing, yet again. After this, to me i can only see Sylvanas being a boss in the end of the expansion or something, because i want to fight her as if i'm fighting blizzard's writing.
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Then she would be like:
Arthas my love... Even after dead, you bring us unfortunate disasters! I hate you... Love, Jaina.
Except Rey being powerful was canonically possible before her character existed. Anakin was imbued with force to stop both the Jedi and the Sith. The Force wants balance and if one side gets too powerful it empowers a child to do so. It's been stated in the currently canon comics.
Lol, you're not too bright, are you?
If Sylvanas is a Mary Sue, so is Bolvar. Just because he put the Helm on doesn't make him Arthas, or even a fraction as powerful. I guess you missed the distinct absence of Frostmourne, too. "BuT sHe MaN-hAnDleD da LiCh KiNg"
Sylvanas was FAR more justified in her power-up compared to Bolvar. But according to you, anyone with justifiable power is a Mary Sue.
So a Mary Sue beat up a Mary Sue. End of story.
Last edited by Black Goat; 2019-12-31 at 11:27 PM.
Something the OP doesn't understand, and I'm going to assume most people in this thread don't understand.
Mostly when someone sees a character they don't like, they label it a "mary sue", because they see it as a generic insult to be applied to any character they think is stupid or something. People can rarely formulate an actual definition for it when asked.
Mary Sues are a lot of different things, which leads to confusion when people try arguing about them. I was once talking about Mary Sues in the Warcraft canon (Anduin in particular, who is an actual Mary Sue) and some guy kept arguing with me, insisting he wasn't a Mary Sue because he wasn't an author self-insert, and that (according to him) was what a Mary Sue was, no more or less. I asked him if it'd be a Mary Sue to insert yourself into your own story, but make your character a background character/even a total loser who is just kind of 'there'. He decided to completely ignore that question; I can only imagine why.
Self-inserts can be Mary Sues, but Mary Sues are not exclusively self-inserts. The same goes for every single Mary Sue symptom (powerful, loved by all, always right, etc). In this case, our OP thinks because Sylvanas is powerful, she's a Mary Sue. The OP is no more correct than the guy who said Anduin isn't a Mary Sue by virtue of not being a self-insert.
Mary Sues, ultimately, are wish fulfillment characters who get what the author wants them to get even when there's no good justification (or often times, outright conflicting evidence against) for them to get it. There's a level of nuance to this definition, though. You wouldn't call Superman a Mary Sue just because he's strong, even when Golden Age Superman was always asspulling new powers and abilities.
Take Anduin (who is a great example of a Mary Sue). In the novel Before the Storm, Anduin and Greymane have an argument over Anduin's position as a bachelor. Greymane argues he needs to marry for political reasons in order to cement the strength of the Alliance (HE'S FUCKING RIGHT LOL), but Anduin argues he needs to marry for love (like a Disney princess). Now, alright, both sides have some valid points; but the story treats Anduin like he's totally right. Even though Greymane had a totally valid, good argument, Christie Golden doesn't want Anduin to be like that so she has him assert 'marriage for love', and then writes her story as if Anduin was right even though his stance is morally grey at best. Christie Golden wants Anduin's decision to be right, and she can only really do that by ignoring that it's not absolutely right. Ergo, it's baseless wish fulfillment. Anduin is therefore Mary Sue. He doesn't have to be ultra powerful or Golden's self-insert. That's not, by themselves, what a Mary Sue is.
Sylvanas gets a bunch of asspull power from some new monster guy we've never seen before. Stupid? Yes. Mary Sue? No.
HelloGreedo did a video about how people called Ahsoka Tano a mary sue because of how she acted in the first season of the Clone Wars (2008) series. And yet she is now regarded as one of the best characters ever. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siVys4vMxPs)
It is kinda funny when you think about it.
Characters with flaws are boring. That just makes them average.
No. Don't have to be overpowered to be a Mary Sue. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
In short, it's a character who can do no wrong, is loved almost universally, etc. The male equivalent is a Gary/Marty Stu.
I rather have Mary Sue than their "let's do like Game of Thrones and kill all our established characters for no other reason than a wow factor".
Garrosh should have still been alive.
Vol'jin should have still been alive.
Tirion Fordring should have still been alive.
Cairne Bloodhoof should have still been alive.