Dear Blizzard; covenant spells will ruin the game

[Rainyhealz]

Please please please keep the covenant spells and benefits for the outside world. Do not bring them into raids where we have to min/max and ignore the other 3. DO NOT bring them into pvp where DH can go full pepega and teleport onto of you as if you had any chance to escape before this.

Dont be stupid, make balancing easier by taking these spells out of pvp and raids and dungeons.

[Gasparde]

Yea, just lock the main feature of the game to the outside world. Who wouldn't want to buy an expansion where the main selling point of it is... getting something new for your world quest tours.

[Alvito]

If they have to add power gains or unique abilities tied to a faction I wish it was only for outdoor content or wouldn't function in dungeons, raids, arena and bg. Keep it closer to the zone abilities in WoD or the engineering building toys from WoD and for non instanced uses only. It would give them more space to try things, balance wouldn't need to be as spot on either. Trying to add unique things for each class tied to the group they hitch their wagon to is insane and something they clearly wont be able to balance. Even if somehow they managed to get it close as soon as other items and mechanics were added and some power changes happen in game something would fly up in usefulness or die off rapidly. Since you are going to be punished in both time and resources to change that is a poor road to choose to go down.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, just lock the main feature of the game to the outside world. Who wouldn't want to buy an expansion where the main selling point of it is... getting something new for your world quest tours.

Selling it as a main feature is another part of the problem. Mixing rare and unique cosmetic items, story lines and player buffing abilities has never worked for them in the past. They keep trying this constantly moving one size fits all thing and they fuck it up every single time.

[Relapses]

Covenant abilities seem to be a continuation of Blizzard's insistence that their game should not be "figured out" by simulations. Corrupted gear represented a window of this philosophy as even though there are bad, good and amazing Corruptions, there's no 100% best Corruption in all situations. These Covenant abilities seem to exist in a similar state. I see a lot of players complaining about how difficult the abilities will be to balance and that's just it -- I don't think they want to balance them. They want us, the player, to decide how we play and whatever perk we get is the perk we live with for the rest of the expansion. Will there be the top 1%ers who will reroll Covenants just for a single raid encounter? Sure. But I think Blizzard realizes this a fringe aspect of the population.

I don't know if I agree with this change in mentality by Blizzard but I certainly understand why it exists. The game is a whole lot more boring when there's only one best way to play it. /shrug

[Rainyhealz]

Yea, just lock the main feature of the game to the outside world. Who wouldn't want to buy an expansion where the main selling point of it is... getting something new for your world quest tours.

To be honest, their main selling point is fixing their class tuning. But you clearly missed that

[Nevcairiel]

I see a lot of players complaining about how difficult the abilities will be to balance and that's just it -- I don't think they want to balance them. They want us, the player, to decide how we play and whatever perk we get is the perk we live with for the rest of the expansion. Will there be the top 1%ers who will reroll Covenants just for a single raid encounter? Sure. But I think Blizzard realizes this a fringe aspect of the population.

I don't know if I agree with this change in mentality by Blizzard but I certainly understand why it exists. The game is a whole lot more boring when there's only one best way to play it. /shrug

I fully agree with those statements. The design of the game is going away from making a clear cut "100% ideal" build at all times possible, and IMHO that makes the game more interesting. Corruptions are not the solution since they rely too much on luck to get them, of course, but we saw this with Azerite where re-rolling them had an increasing cost, and covenants continue that trend with a high respec cost.

A meaningful choice requires a commitment. If you can swap it every 5 minutes for every single encounter, its not meaningful, its just automatic.
Meaningful choices is what a RPG should be all about. You commit to a certain path, and that defines your character.

The game should not be designed for those people that will try to re-roll their covenant for every encounter. Unfortunately these forums have a much larger then normal population of these.

[huth]

To be honest, their main selling point is fixing their class tuning. But you clearly missed that

No, that's just the part that you care most about. The vast majority of the playerbase doesn't care.

[Mikhas]

I have to agree to limit the covenant abilities is an ok solution, so nobody feels obligated to choose the best one for pvp, raiding and mythic +. If the ability is only usable in world content and Torghast, then there won't be any trouble balancing, except if one of those abilities have a broken build in torghast or does not work properly in world pvp.

[Redroniksre]

To be honest, their main selling point is fixing their class tuning. But you clearly missed that

For you, and other on here or those who actually care, then yeah. But for a lot of people, i doubt they will even know what is different until the game launches and they are surprised by suddenly having a bunch of new stuff.

[SLNC]

[...] Do not bring them into raids where we have to min/max and ignore the other 3. [...]

This sentence literally encapsulates what's wrong with the current WoW community.

[Omedon]

Please please please keep the covenant spells and benefits for the outside world. Do not bring them into raids where we have to min/max and ignore the other 3. DO NOT bring them into pvp where DH can go full pepega and teleport onto of you as if you had any chance to escape before this.

Dont be stupid, make balancing easier by taking these spells out of pvp and raids and dungeons.

Ambition is the enemy of choice (https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nemy-of-choice). Be real about where you sit in the pecking order of the game, and unless you are in the world first race every option is viable.

[Hctaz]

Ambition is the enemy of choice,(https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nemy-of-choice) be real about where you sit in the pecking order of the game, and every choice is viable.

After looking at my realistic expectations on where I would and will sit come Shadowlands should I decide to play this expansion, I am still disappointed that I will be forced to choose the most optimal faction for my class and spec forgoing any of the cosmetic benefits of the others that I may decide I like better.

So there's no reason to NOT balance them accordingly. Everybody acts like making something work well for the top 1% is a bad idea, but why? If it doesn't affect the 99% one way or the other, why not make it work better for the one group it does affect?

- - - Updated - - -

This sentence literally encapsulates what's wrong with the current WoW community.

Or... that's the way that most multiplayer video games have always been played... and instead of blaming the community, you could maybe give the feedback to Blizzard that the cosmetic only rewards are dope AF but having any player feel like they have a "right" choice to make is bad.

Just because you won't pick a faction based on optimization doesn't mean others won't. I would rather the system be more about cosmetic and less about optimization for the content you prefer. Maybe I only do solo content and Kyrian is the best for solo stuff but I'd rather just be a spooky goth vampire. That choice might be fine, but I definitely don't want to live in a world where I have to have 4 different DKs.

[SLNC]

Or... that's the way that most multiplayer video games have always been played... and instead of blaming the community, you could maybe give the feedback to Blizzard that the cosmetic only rewards are dope AF but having any player feel like they have a "right" choice to make is bad.

Just because you won't pick a faction based on optimization doesn't mean others won't. I would rather the system be more about cosmetic and less about optimization for the content you prefer. Maybe I only do solo content and Kyrian is the best for solo stuff but I'd rather just be a spooky goth vampire. That choice might be fine, but I definitely don't want to live in a world where I have to have 4 different DKs.

Yeah, it might be how "most multiplayer video games have always been played", that doesn't change the fact, that it's pretty stupid to see it as a necessity. That's my only point. If you get fun out of optimization, do it.

I honestly don't care for what reason anyone picks their Covenant. If you want to optimize, then pick your overall optimal Covenant. If you want to have certain dope armor and care about that more, pick that. Just make a choice ffs.

[Magnificent Madmartegan]

My god every time I hear "We have to.....", "Blizzard made me....", I want to puke. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. There's no blizzard employee or anybody else standing behind you with a gun to your head saying you have to play this class, this spec, these stats, covenants, etc. There is only 3 things "forcing" you do choose anything in this game. 1) the damn min/maxer's that spew out the crap about what you must be/choose/do. 2) Raid Leaders/Guild Leaders saying you "have to" do this to be in our raid team (usually stuff they've read from the min/maxer's). 3) YOU!!! For choosing to follow the above to whatever ends instead of just enjoying the damn game.
I'm sorry but I doubt that the blizzard staff are all sitting in a office and planning on making content that can only be completed one way. There might be a easier way or optimal way to do something but its not the only way. On the subject of easy.... raiding is/was never meant to be easy. I for one am more proud of completing something when its done with whatever group I'm in and not by what's figured out by some number crunchers.

[Gestopft]

Dear players, if you aren't in the world first race, your choice of covenant won't matter.

I think there are fair criticisms of covenants; i.e. making players choose between aesthetics they prefer and abilities they prefer playing with, but in this case, I think the community is just going to drop the expectations that most people will min-max their covenant.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

This sentence literally encapsulates what's wrong with the current WoW community.

Is it though?
When I raid, I want to bring the best performance I can.
It's just bad game design to force a choice onto the player, while it is pretty obvious that this stuff
will most likely be unbalanced af and be nerfed/buffed throughout the expansion.
Main features should just be the content you are engaging in...the world, the dungeons, the raids etc.
Legendaries, essences, azerite, covenant...in the end it is the same sht over and over again and it just
doesn't work so well. Make classes fun again, make gameplay more fun again...and don't try to
bandaid fix the player experience with systems like that.

[Mirishka]

If I had a dollar for every 'reeeee this will ruin the game' thing that didn't actually ruin the game, I could buy myself something nice.

[Corroc]

No, that's just the part that you care most about. The vast majority of the playerbase doesn't care.

Blizzard selling point isn't what vast majority of playerbase cares either. Most of the playerbase wants free shit without having to do anything for it. And they want to hit some sort of power ceiling with that free shit so they can go "yeah I'm super powerful now, just like all the good players".

[SLNC]

Is it though?
When I raid, I want to bring the best performance I can.
It's just bad game design to force a choice onto the player, while it is pretty obvious that this stuff
will most likely be unbalanced af and be nerfed/buffed throughout the expansion.
Main features should just be the content you are engaging in...the world, the dungeons, the raids etc.
Legendaries, essences, azerite, covenant...in the end it is the same sht over and over again and it just
doesn't work so well. Make classes fun again, make gameplay more fun again...and don't try to
bandaid fix the player experience with systems like that.

Then just play good, man. Bad performance is usually just that. Being not that skilled. I get though, that it's better for self-esteem to blame the build.

And no, I don't think it's bad game design to make people make meaningful choices in an RPG.

[Voidism]

Is it though?
When I raid, I want to bring the best performance I can.
It's just bad game design to force a choice onto the player, while it is pretty obvious that this stuff
will most likely be unbalanced af and be nerfed/buffed throughout the expansion.
Main features should just be the content you are engaging in...the world, the dungeons, the raids etc.
Legendaries, essences, azerite, covenant...in the end it is the same sht over and over again and it just
doesn't work so well. Make classes fun again, make gameplay more fun again...and don't try to
bandaid fix the player experience with systems like that.

But it's your choice. It's a choice you make. You're not forced to pick the 1 % better simming thing. Most of us will pick what we like, not what some perfect play simulation says.