What's the scolding horde players get at the start of the Ardenweald's covenant?

[Combatbutler]

Im not saying occupying them. More like controlling and removing the dangerous elements that made the Horde do what they did twice. If they are in a position to do it or not only Blizzard knows.

Where the story stands they are not able to do that, it would take many years to foster better relations with some nations in the hopes to splinter the horde, then they would need to get influence in the troublesome nations to prepare for a coup, such things cannot be rushed if you want them to be realistic and even if they succeed the chances of them holding the reins for a long time are slim to none.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh you must not know then.

Making the deal with Helya who is in cahoots with nzoth and sylvanas.

Come BFA they make deals with ashvane to free her as payment and deliver her to azshara. As she and the pirates the horde were giving supplies to worked with azshara. Sylvanas then meets back up with Helya in the maw and well... Their plan is back on action.

I know that the horde were dealing with Azshara but when it comes to comparing factions that are so closely interlinked the only reasonable thing to do is compare what they did them selfs not what others may have done because of them other wise every thing that has happened is just on the legion.

As to make meetings that doesn’t happen until after the separation of sylvanas/horde and there deal before that lead to nothing.

[RCA]

Hey they tried their hardest!
Since all souls are going to the maw they have very little funds for their play, and all the good actors have gone to revendreth...
They are trying their best ok?

lol.

oh this afterlife.

[Nnyco]

Are you kidding me? The horde literally destroyed Draenor lol

Thats not the same horde. Its like saying the alliance caused the sundering because azhara and her nightelves let the demons on the planet.

[Lord Pebbleton]

"Oh, alright then, you are forgiven. But this is the last time!"

-Everyone, on the 14th time

[Sagenod]

Over all horde seems pretty close to the scourge but not even close to the legion, It’s also very likely I’m forgetting a ton of stuff.

The horde as of wow has,
Plagued lorderon.
Plagued south shore.
Blown up a school of Druids in stone talon.
Burned down teldrasila.
Plagued dark shore.
Destroyed the vale of eternal blossoms.
Bombed thereamore.
Plagued various area’s in northrend.

The scourge going back to WC3 has. Destroyed lorderon/plague lands.
Destroyed the ghost lands.
Cause the dead scar.
Tainted the sun well.
Destroyed part of zul,drak.
Killed most of the vykral.
And just abunch of rampaging in northrend.

The legion going way back but sticking just to Azeroth.
Causes the sundering.
Destroyed dalaran.
Birthed the scourge.
Destroyed nodstila.
Corrupted the scarlet crusade.
Destroyed fel wood.
Desoteyed the blasted lands.
Destroyed all kinds of things in legion.

Let's not forget that 90% of the Quel'dorei and even more of the Lordaeronians were wiped out during the Third War, along with certainly many thousands of soldiers from Thrall's New Horde and the Long Vigil Kaldorei. They destroyed the Drakkari Empire as well as most of the Vrykul as you mentioned up in Northrend.

All told in my personal opinion, though this might be arguable, I'd say the Scourge by itself did more damage to the denizens of Azeroth than the original Legion controlled Orcish Horde and the New Horde. Hell even the Iron Horde didn't kill as many people as the Scourge did the way I see it. This is, however, speculative.

Also, I suppose "damage" needs to be more well-defined. Damage to what, exactly? Loss of life or destruction of property and the environment. In terms of wanton destruction of property and the environment, I'd say sure the Horde has netted more damage than the Scourge, which was relegated to the EK and Northrend for the most part. The Horde, especially under Garrosh, went around the world destroying all sorts of shit!

[Darth-Piekus]

Where the story stands they are not able to do that, it would take many years to foster better relations with some nations in the hopes to splinter the horde, then they would need to get influence in the troublesome nations to prepare for a coup, such things cannot be rushed if you want them to be realistic and even if they succeed the chances of them holding the reins for a long time are slim to none.

I don't know if they are able or not at this moment of the story. All I am saying is that if Blizzard wanted to make a faction war from the start make it so there can be actual consequences and stop making factions hiding behind the Playable Faction. It's obvious they can't do that now but they could make factions for the Horde only since most neutral factions should distrust them. At least some of them.

[Minikin]

nah i havent seen the scolding either, maybe its not during the play, (I have not done the FULL campaign on horde) but i have done the play a few times on horde.

closest thing to a scolding is the people gasping and ysera weeping over the world tree being burned.

either case, appreciate you going out of the way and getting the vid.

[Combatbutler]

I don't know if they are able or not at this moment of the story. All I am saying is that if Blizzard wanted to make a faction war from the start make it so there can be actual consequences and stop making factions hiding behind the Playable Faction.

And it would be just as shitty as BFA, such things require careful planning in advance, so that the whole thing makes sense from start to finish. Blizz has proven again and again they are not capable of something like that, not to mention the vast majority of their audience can be described like this "me smash blue and red" who like cheap easy bad-ass moments and explosions.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Let's not forget that 90% of the Quel'dorei and even more of the Lordaeronians were wiped out during the Third War, along with certainly many thousands of soldiers from Thrall's New Horde and the Long Vigil Kaldorei. They destroyed the Drakkari Empire as well as most of the Vrykul as you mentioned up in Northrend.

All told in my personal opinion, though this might be arguable, I'd say the Scourge by itself did more damage to the denizens of Azeroth than the original Legion controlled Orcish Horde and the New Horde. Hell even the Iron Horde didn't kill as many people as the Scourge did the way I see it. This is, however, speculative.

Also, I suppose "damage" needs to be more well-defined. Damage to what, exactly? Loss of life or destruction of property and the environment. In terms of wanton destruction of property and the environment, I'd say sure the Horde has netted more damage than the Scourge, which was relegated to the EK and Northrend for the most part. The Horde, especially under Garrosh, went around the world destroying all sorts of shit!

As far as damage goes I’m counting things like mass loss of life like teldrassil and long term environment damage, for example using the plague on lorderon and southshore might not kill as many in comparison but it has long lasting negative environmental effects just like the dead scar.

As Far way numbers go like soliders lost in battle or populations like quel’dorei wiped out we don’t really have any hard numbers of deaths either by the scourge or horde/alliance which is why I just stuck to things like the ghost lands being destroyed. The scourge might have a way higher body count but we really don’t know. I proabbly should have put destroying the vykral empire instead of killing most of them to stick to that form.

Also the scourge didn’t destroy the Drakkari empire, Maimed it ya but the empire kinda fucked it self by killing it’s own gods then we went in and finished the job after they had fought the scourge back which is why I only listed destroying part of zul’drak.

[VladlTutushkin]

Wow....someone can't distinguish reality from a game. So go ahead...have the alliance do this to the horde. Make you feel better? Make you the "righteous" faction? No....not in the least. Horde forever here...always was always will be......but it's just a GAME.

At the VERY least it will make “faction war” feel like a war, not a schoolyard bullying where horde is the bully and Alliance are third graders with lunch money. You know, puts a real dampener on a gaming experience when you are essentially a “jobber”. But at least jobbers are payed in wrestling and such for losing on purpose.

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Logic doesn't come into play here.

Shocker. Alienating 50% of the playerbase over decisions made by writers might seem like a brilliant business tactic to those so emotionally invested in this that they equate players of one faction in a PG13 game to terrorists, but in the REAL world...

And you think that other 50% are not alienated by being repeatedly cucked by the company they pay same money every months? Alliance also here, if you forgot.

[DietzThought]

Better being scolded than being scorched HEYOOOO

#Sylvanasdidnothingwrong
#shesmyqueen
#TeldrassilBBQ

[VladlTutushkin]

Better being scolded than being scorched HEYOOOO

#Sylvanasdidnothingwrong
#shesmyqueen
#TeldrassilBBQ

#HordeAlsoInTheMaw
I wonder how they feel about their “queen” now, being slowly devoured by her sugar daddy together with the people they killed.

[Arrashi]

#HordeAlsoInTheMaw
I wonder how they feel about their “queen” now, being slowly devoured by her sugar daddy together with the people they killed.

Aren't they just having nice time "in the donjon"? Jailer gives me strong darkholme vibes.

[Syegfryed]

Fair enough. Though this mixes up ingame and outgame knowledge. Just because it is in the quest log, does not mean that characters in game will recognize if you are a loyalist or not. Best example is that after the Mak'gorah there are still hidden Loyalists around.

it will mean they know who partake with the burning will be.

It's a factually correct argument. You not liking it, does not change that. The Loyalist storyline was not planned, it was shoved in because players demanded it. Hence why it was so small and has no direct consequences, bar a small cutscene in the end.
The fact they are not continuing it has simple practical reasons:

it was implement by demand because the lead dev is a massive fanboy of her, it was bunch of half-asset quests that was just edited main ones, its not big deal, if you take the "deman" nd see how many were then, not many people, i assure you, more people were on Garrosh side, and he didn't get any loyalist quest.

1) Sylvanas is gonna be a raid boss sooner or later, how would that work with Loyalists in the group? Permanent mind control cast on pull?

if thts the thing why make loyalist quest in the first place?

No I am specifically refering to those guys that enjoyed the Burning of Teldrassil and kept defending it. But then the entire Horde followed Sylvanas for a long time until she turned on them as well.

yeah, we did because we had no choice and because obnoxious bad writing.

War with the Horde always ends up in some genocide or another, because it does not know restraint.

no it don't, war was pretty fine since vanila without a genoicde.

Well, you do not have any data to prove that your side was in the majority either. The fact that is was enough feedback to include the Loyalists storyline is evidence enough that it was a big part of the Horde.

the backlash across the board on foruns and social media show that not many people like it, the "loyalist feedback" ws resumed in just one topic in the oficial forums, it ws not big, just loud.

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Thats not the same horde. Its like saying the alliance caused the sundering because azhara and her nightelves let the demons on the planet.

it ws not even "the horde" it was just ner'zhul, apparently any green skin is horde those days

[Queen of Hamsters]

And you think that other 50% are not alienated by being repeatedly cucked by the company they pay same money every months? Alliance also here, if you forgot.

I'd rather be "cucked" (lol at that term) than having my faction used as the go-to instigator of every conflict just because it's easier, or the writers have more (but not enough) interest in the Horde than they do in the Alliance.

And there's still a fucking big difference between how Alliance players exist now, vs having an entire half of your playerbase punished for writer's decisions just to appease the whiny other half, which is what's been suggested in this very thread and others.

[Darth-Piekus]

I'd rather be "cucked" (lol at that term) than having my faction used as the go-to instigator of every conflict just because it's easier, or the writers have more (but not enough) interest in the Horde than they do in the Alliance.

And there's still a fucking big difference between how Alliance players exist now, vs having an entire half of your playerbase punished for writer's decisions just to appease the whiny other half, which is what's been suggested in this very thread and others.

That can go both ways. Why punish the Alliance half for actual consequences because the whiny other half don't want to face them? The answer is not to have a faction war. If they intend to villainize one faction they might as well follow with actual consequences otherwise why even bother?

[Queen of Hamsters]

That can go both ways. Why punish the Alliance half for actual consequences because the whiny other half don't want to face them? The answer is not to have a faction war. If they intend to villainize one faction they might as well follow with actual consequences otherwise why even bother?

Because the punishment you and others ask for, would be imposed on players rather than those pulling the strings and FORCING players into whatever they envision for the factions.

Petty, in other words. I didn't ask for my faction to be made the aggressor twice, exactly how am I whiny for expecting to not face gameplay-altering punishment in-game?

Clue: I'm not. If they want to do something to the players choosing to play as loyalists, be my guest. I however expect to be able to visit the same areas as I could before they pulled BfA out their asses. Same again when we return to the "faction" war crap in the future. Same when I login to one of my 25+ Alliance characters.

Why even bother indeed, because it's ALWAYS been the case that they cannot punish players to appease the other side as a result of writing. It's why the faction war is toothless at best, damaging at worst. In MoP they at least had the decency to write players into being on the side of the uprising against the warmongers.

TLDR: Asking that they punish players in petty revenge for the other half of the playerbase, is idiotic. The faction "war", is idiotic for as long as it always makes one faction out of 2 to be the bad guy, with the narrative depth of a puddle.

[FelPlague]

I know that the horde were dealing with Azshara but when it comes to comparing factions that are so closely interlinked the only reasonable thing to do is compare what they did them selfs not what others may have done because of them other wise every thing that has happened is just on the legion.

As to make meetings that doesn’t happen until after the separation of sylvanas/horde and there deal before that lead to nothing.

They did work with ashvane and freed her from the prison.
they did supply resources to the pirates who worked with ashvane

ashvane worked with azshara, obviously.
and then yeah, the horde knows right out that syvlanas worked with helya, and helya was evil, and yeah.

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Thats not the same horde. Its like saying the alliance caused the sundering because azhara and her nightelves let the demons on the planet.

"That's not the same horde"

Issue is... it is... many of the orcs in the horde now, are exactly those people...

Nazgrim, Saurfang, etc, there is tons of orcs who are still alive who were those that invaded azeroth.

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I enjoyed MLP

i dont, but i mean it seremed liek you were trying to make a point that voice actors can only fit 1 role.

[formerShandalay]

I really would have liked the solution to all this that Afrasiabi said the team wouldn't let him do. Choose the 'wrong' side and get killed at the end of the loyalist questchain, your character deleted. That would have been consitent and we would not have people saying 'kill yourself and go to the Maw for eternity' isn't what Sylvanas wants for you.
And yes, of course that would have included my own loyalist character.^^