Corbyn Suspended by Labour Over Discrimination Report

[Endus]

Out of curiosity, how many of you arguing about this have actually visited the UK?

FWIW, 3 times, for better than a month each time. I've also literally got extended family there that we keep in touch with, second cousins and great-aunts and the like. I don't like the "you've got to be here to understand things" line of thinking, though. If they're ignorant of context, by all means, point it out, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone outside your country to understand how things work there just fine.

[beanman12345]

Out of curiosity, how many of you arguing about this have actually visited the UK?

Not argueing, but I have visited, not Scotland but England and Wales, it was wonderful. But I'm not arguing because idk much of UK politics, not sure why visiting means anything.

[Felya]

I'm not American, so I don't generally comment on American focused issues. I've never visited the country either.

Take this as an invitation... our shit is way more entertaining. Like... we literally have a reality TV celebrity for president... no one knows what he will say next. So... exciting...

[Milchshake]

Out of curiosity, how many of you arguing about this have actually visited the UK?

I've been to the UK 6 times. I really appreciate how curry and kebab have improved the dining out experience over the decades.


I've also walked up Ben Nevis. So any blokes opinion of the US doesnt matter until they've summited Mt.Whitney

[Graeham]

Fair enough! Like I said, I was just curious!

As for Corbyn I can't say I'm a big fan of him. For a while I bought into the idea that he was genuine about wanting to help the people of the UK but he's been mired in controversy and has seemingly been intent to walk into scandal after scandal. Scandals aside, I think he should've had more tact and maybe not sought to weigh in on every last little issue. If he'd done that then maybe Labour would've gotten into power.

[Xarkan]

Fair enough! Like I said, I was just curious!

As for Corbyn I can't say I'm a big fan of him. For a while I bought into the idea that he was genuine about wanting to help the people of the UK but he's been mired in controversy and has seemingly been intent to walk into scandal after scandal. Scandals aside, I think he should've had more tact and maybe not sought to weigh in on every last little issue. If he'd done that then maybe Labour would've gotten into power.

I am not convinced that Corbyn would have been worse for the UK than Johnson..

[Yes i know, different parties]

[Theodarzna]

Fair enough! Like I said, I was just curious!

As for Corbyn I can't say I'm a big fan of him. For a while I bought into the idea that he was genuine about wanting to help the people of the UK but he's been mired in controversy and has seemingly been intent to walk into scandal after scandal. Scandals aside, I think he should've had more tact and maybe not sought to weigh in on every last little issue. If he'd done that then maybe Labour would've gotten into power.

Corbyn only had controversy due to internal sabotage by Blairites as leaked documents showed. He was literally betrayed by a cabal from within.

[Kronik85]

Corbyn only had controversy due to internal sabotage by Blairites as leaked documents showed. He was literally betrayed by a cabal from within.

I liked Corbyn, I liked the direction the party was taking under his leadership, I voted for him twice but he was a terrible leader. The anti-Semitism scandal should of been an easy win for him but instead he let it become an easy smear by a hostile press and his political adversaries.

Yes fuck the Blairites but they weren't solely responsible for all the problems of his tenure, his biggest issue is his own hubris, the fact he can't even offer an apology correctly clearly demonstrates this.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"Real socialists" wouldn't have years of open hostility towards the left, too. So go on, please tell us what "real socialists" would do...

It's mostly because the population of staunch socialists in the US completely lack self awareness, and lack a lot of realization about US politics. While things like M4A and subsidized college tuition are largely supported, those tend to be the only two things that share wide public support. Everything else in the far left platform is generally on the unpopular side. Thus why I say these US socialists lack self awareness. They put their two best feet forward, M4A and college tuition, then when confronted with the rest of their platform being deemed a bit too extreme, they get mad, they lash out, they call people names.

These so-called "brunch socialists" are the people who see that if you put forward a true socialist platform, then the far right will rule over this country for generations to come. The first past the post model of election victory prevents third parties from being viable, and even worse, makes it so that if there is ever a split between far left and center left parties, that the left will NEVER win.

On top of THAT, most on the far left in the US are similar to the far right in lacking an understanding of how US government and US policy functions. They hyper-focus on the white house, acting as if it is the one thing that truly matters. I tell them that they need to stop focusing on the presidency so much, and work across the country to install more socialist legislators, congressmen and senators. Congress controls the purse strings, our legislature sets policy and law. Presidents mostly talk about policy as lip service for votes. Sure, there's a lot they can do in the executive branch, but that is the extent of their power. I've written massive posts that go into more detail on this, and I'm tired of writing them because they seem to go way over people's heads, but the general impression I get from people's responses is not only do they fail to understand basic US civics, they actively despise the idea of having civics explained to them, and would like to pretend their socialist candidates can be kings that can do anything they desire.

These people also like to make many arguments to say that socialism is more popular than most people think. They tend to be more in-depth arguments that follow the same vein as the alt-right talking point about the "silent majority". They claim that most Americans stay home and don't vote because there is no viable socialist candidate. And yet when the primaries happened, a chance where they could come out in droves to vote for their vaunted idealistic candidate, they ALSO stay home there. Hmmm... And of course, they usually have some OTHER excuse as to why their silent majority does not vote in the primaries either.

In the end, it always turns into name calling and excuses. The excuses come when they lose, when they can't get enough people to vote for them, when their ideas that they are the TRULY POPULAR POSITION are challenged. Then when they are backed against the wall and their excuses are laid bare for what they really are, they then resort to name calling. For instance, brunch socialists, which is a variation on things like "LARP socialist".

I truly want many of the things on the socialist platform, but I do not want everything on it. I am also fully self aware, I know how US civics work and am not some idealist who believes we can change the country overnight. Change comes at a snail's pace, and it always will if you want to make change through peaceful means. Change only comes rapidly through bloody revolution. But again, if you desire change forward for the better, rather than a REGRESSION back to the politics of the 50's, then it is best you quickly recognize the futility of trying to get a strongly socialist candidate in the white house. Even if you do manage to succeed, nothing will happen, because policy is not decided by the president.

[JohnBrown1917]

I liked Corbyn, I liked the direction the party was taking under his leadership, I voted for him twice but he was a terrible leader. The anti-Semitism scandal should of been an easy win for him but instead he let it become an easy smear by a hostile press and his political adversaries.

Yes fuck the Blairites but they weren't solely responsible for all the problems of his tenure, his biggest issue is his own hubris, the fact he can't even offer an apology correctly clearly demonstrates this.

Nothing he could have done to stop the smearing, it clear as day those 3 groups(media, tories and bliarites) where dead set on pushing it untill the end.

Bliarite tactics are probably some of the most disgusting kind ive ever seen in politics. I hope nobody on the UK left ever even considers voting for a blairite labour.

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I am not convinced that Corbyn would have been worse for the UK than Johnson..

[Yes i know, different parties]

To anybody right of center or rich it would have been, they rather have that nutjob of Johnson in power for a while than anything left of center.
Now that the right-wing of labour is back in power, they got what they wanted.

[Kronik85]

Nothing he could have done to stop the smearing, it clear as day those 3 groups(media, tories and bliarites) where dead set on pushing it untill the end.

That's not the point I am making, he was always going to have shit flung at him from all sides but he failed to show any kind of leadership in a scandal that was tailor made to be a great demonstration of leadership to the British public. Instead he failed to step up and chose to obfuscate the process behind committees, hearings and procedures which went no where that played directly into his critics hands of him being the reincarnation of Stalin. All he had to do was to kick out a few of the worst offenders and adopt a recognised code and it was over but hey, it's history now anyway, like Corbyn's life on the front benches.

Bliarite tactics are probably some of the most disgusting kind ive ever seen in politics. I hope nobody on the UK left ever even considers voting for a blairite labour.

I'll still vote for New Labour mk II next election, I live in a formerly Red Wall seat and we on the left aren't super keen on another 5 years of Tory rule and kleptocracy.

[Graeham]

Corbyn only had controversy due to internal sabotage by Blairites as leaked documents showed. He was literally betrayed by a cabal from within.

He was stabbed in the back, sure - though by refusing to play 'the game' he screwed himself over. At the end of the day I'm not particularly impressed with any of the current batch of politicians in the UK. Blair's disciples should have been very easy for him to counter, given how horrible the Iraq war has been and the long lasting consequences we've been suffering since.

[JohnBrown1917]

He was stabbed in the back, sure - though by refusing to play 'the game' he screwed himself over. At the end of the day I'm not particularly impressed with any of the current batch of politicians in the UK. Blair's disciples should have been very easy for him to counter, given how horrible the Iraq war has been and the long lasting consequences we've been suffering since.

Not playing the game is what made him so good.

[Machismo]

Making excuses for neo-nazis and fascists is very on brand for you and Aimee Terese.

@Machismo, got those links handy? The "Neo Nazis have only killed a few people", was peak glorious time.

She is on record in her support of ethno-nationalism and apartheid... there's not much more that needs to be said.

[Theodarzna]

He was stabbed in the back, sure - though by refusing to play 'the game' he screwed himself over. At the end of the day I'm not particularly impressed with any of the current batch of politicians in the UK. Blair's disciples should have been very easy for him to counter, given how horrible the Iraq war has been and the long lasting consequences we've been suffering since.

So your solution is to cheer on the backstabbing snakes of Tony Blair? Despite acknowledging them as evil? Fascinating.

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I liked Corbyn, I liked the direction the party was taking under his leadership, I voted for him twice but he was a terrible leader. The anti-Semitism scandal should of been an easy win for him but instead he let it become an easy smear by a hostile press and his political adversaries.

Yes fuck the Blairites but they weren't solely responsible for all the problems of his tenure, his biggest issue is his own hubris, the fact he can't even offer an apology correctly clearly demonstrates this.

Corbyn had no issues until he seriously threatened power. Then all of a sudden there were grave concerns for Anti-Semitism, strange how that worked out. How many decades was he in politics where that was never a concern? Weird?

[Graeham]

So your solution is to cheer on the backstabbing snakes of Tony Blair? Despite acknowledging them as evil? Fascinating.

When did I 'cheer' for them? I'm no fan of Blair and his legacy, but Corbyn is quite old and I don't believe he will get another chance to do what he set out to do.

[Kronik85]

So your solution is to cheer on the backstabbing snakes of Tony Blair? Despite acknowledging them as evil? Fascinating.

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Corbyn had no issues until he seriously threatened power. Then all of a sudden there were grave concerns for Anti-Semitism, strange how that worked out. How many decades was he in politics where that was never a concern? Weird?

I don't think the idea that JC is an anti-Semite has ever really been taken seriously by anyone who isn't a swivel eyed loon. The scandal was about factions and activists within the Labour movement who were anti-Semites and Corbyn utterly failing to demonstrate clear leadership in kicking them out. Like I said, it should of been an easy chance to demonstrate that he was a capable leader but he fucked it, you can't blame that on the turds that are the Blairite wing of the party. /shrug

[Theodarzna]

I don't think the idea that JC is an anti-Semite has ever really been taken seriously by anyone who isn't a swivel eyed loon. The scandal was about factions and activists within the Labour movement who were anti-Semites and Corbyn utterly failing to demonstrate clear leadership in kicking them out. Like I said, it should of been an easy chance to demonstrate that he was a capable leader but he fucked it, you can't blame that on the turds that are the Blairite wing of the party. /shrug

Those factions, basically the question of "Are these Anti-Zionist movements Anti-Semitic" was strangely an unanswered question until the Blairites lost control. Then it was a big important question.

[Kronik85]

Those factions, basically the question of "Are these Anti-Zionist movements Anti-Semitic" was strangely an unanswered question until the Blairites lost control. Then it was a big important question.

From my recollection the scandal started when alleged Corbyn supporters kept tweeting anti-Semitic abuse at then MP Luciana Berger and he failed to do anything about it.

I am not in anyway denying that Corbyn wasn't betrayed by elements of his own party but that has very little to do with the problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. It was within his power to take the easy W and make some obvious decisions but he chose not to and inturn make himself even more vulnerable to a hostile establishment.

That's on him, he was never going to have an easy time but watching Corbyn as leader was gaffe after gaffe, couldn't have made it easier for his opponents.

[sandstill]

From my recollection the scandal started when alleged Corbyn supporters kept tweeting anti-Semitic abuse at then MP Luciana Berger and he failed to do anything about it.

The only verifiable abuse of Luciana Berger was from neo-nazis.

To state the blindingly obvious, it isn't possible to identify individual twitter accounts. Any one can create them. It also isn't possible to detect their actual political affiliation. If they bother to hide their IP address, you can't detect their location. You have nothing.

Basically, you don't know how the internet works and are saying dumb shit you don't understand.