"Pay to win"

[Belloc]

Well,

I don't mind the boost really, however I think that there are a lot of people who aren't you, who dislike it and think it will impact their experience.

As you said you barely play any games, so why should the game cater to the very few who generally won't even play to begin with instead of those who have been sticking with classic. You are not who the game is meant for, you are a passer by a onlooker not the gamer who TBC classic should be targeted towards.

Uh, I didn't say that I barely play any games, I said I barely play my classic console games. I've been gaming for 30+ years now and I'm not going to stop until I'm dead.

In any case, I'm exactly the target player for TBC: Someone who played it and loved it and has intense nostalgia for it. I want to do heroic 5-mans. I want to lead and tank my group through Karazhan. I want to wipe until my raid figures out spacing on Gruul and channel rotation on Magtheridon. I want to push through SSC and TK and actually have a chance at defeating Vashj and Kael without them being bugged and broken. I want to do ZA bear runs. Hell, I want to do the Netherdrake quest chain. I want to kill the Sunwell bosses that we never finished.

What I don't want to do is slog through the Vanilla content that I've hated ever since TBC launched. Leveling my first alt through that garbage was torture. I never want to touch Vanilla content again and I'd happily pay for a level 58 boost to achieve that. Also, stop gatekeeping -- Video games are for everyone. If Johnny Casual wants to play, he gets to play. Level boosts make the game more accessible for everyone. Or, what, do you want TBC classic to empty out just as fast as Vanilla Classic did?

[chiddie]

No, you're not paying for recruit-a-friend. You just let your friend who wants to play the game create an account and you link your account to his and there you go. I don't care if they changed RAF on retail, bring back the TBC version instead.

With server transfer, you're not paying to skip a part of the game. And it was there in TBC, boosts weren't. Disgusting crap like boosts shouldn't be anywhere near here, but what can you expect from the garbage that is modern Blizzard.

I bet that you were one of the ones complaining that PC version of Tomb Raider was p2w because you could just F5 and save any second while on PlayStation there were only a few save points per level.

How this 58 boost ruins YOUR specific experience remains a mistery to me. 1-58 is not TBC, TBC is 58-70 and beyond. If someone wants to skip Vanilla just let him do it, it won’t give him any advantage in the TBC leveling or in TBC endgame.

[arkanon]

It will impact my fun, it will impact my enjoyment of playing the AH when I play the game. I'd be at a MASSIVE disadvantage that didn't exist in Vanilla going to TBC. I wouldn't have a chance trying to focus on jewelcrafting for massive gold returns because the market of mats would be destroyed instantly. Want to buy consumables? Yeah they are far far more expensive now, why? Because old gold from classic sets the market. I'd feel the impact of being not full strength because I wouldn't have the potions/flasks/drums/and so on.

That is my reason for staying away if it comes out as stated.

So you are not playing classic vanilla now?

Did you play vanilla and into tbc?

[Ludvig]

I mean the dude's profile is basically flat out advertising gold selling, why they've not been banned yet is beyond me. What you think they gonna do with that boosting gold they've got? Sell it to people coming to TBC for cash? Nah....

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Yeah and plenty of people from Vanilla-Wotlk had terrible ideas about class balance and hybrid taxes, pointless keying to be eligible to do raids, reputation grinds on dungeons, what of it?

What are you talking about? They aren't even changing class balance or "hybrid taxes" (which weren't a thing in WotLK and not that potent in TBC either), the "keying" or reputation grinds. And you realize that the majority of people who play classic/tbc/whatever prefers it like this?

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I bet that you were one of the ones complaining that PC version of Tomb Raider was p2w because you could just F5 and save any second while on PlayStation there were only a few save points per level.

How this 58 boost ruins YOUR specific experience remains a mistery to me. 1-58 is not TBC, TBC is 58-70 and beyond. If someone wants to skip Vanilla just let him do it, it won’t give him any advantage in the TBC leveling or in TBC endgame.

I'm only calling out p2w stuff for being what they are. I don't see how your example is remotely relevant.

Because it's supposed to be an MMORPG, and having a paid option to skip content shatters any sense of being in a world of warcraft. It does by definition give this person an advantage compared to a person who decides not to buy the boost. Especially if the target goal is to level in TBC or to experience TBC endgame. In the end, I don't blame any player for purchasing this boost, I blame Blizzard for adding it when they can do compromises that are in the spirit of the old WoW which a boost definitely isn't.

[Kyanion]

So you are not playing classic vanilla now?

Did you play vanilla and into tbc?

I played Vanilla 16 whatever years ago and into TBC. I played Classic for a little while but I found it boring. I don't want to grind out the levels and most of my friends felt the same. We're thinking of doing the boost for TBC but we know gold inflation is a huge problem in classic atm, not interested if that is coming into TBC.

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What are you talking about? They aren't even changing class balance or "hybrid taxes" (which weren't a thing in WotLK and not that potent in TBC either), the "keying" or reputation grinds. And you realize that the majority of people who play classic/tbc/whatever prefers it like this?

I'm talking about your comment of the lead designer of Vanilla-wotlk facepalming. You seem to think that matters and I'm pointing out they've had their hands in doing some silly shit in vanilla-wotlk.

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Because it's supposed to be an MMORPG, and having a paid option to skip content shatters any sense of being in a world of warcraft.

Well good thing this isn't your call to make. Some of us did the grind 14-16 years ago and not interested in repeating it so we can enter the dark portal. Yeah, no thanks. I knew when Classic launched there was a good chance TBC and so on would follow, why should people that want to play TBC be forced to do classic shit? Nope.

[zhorteye]

Its being defended because its literally a one time purchase. Its like you are buying tbc again to get that boost basicly.
If you arent happy with it dont buy it, it literally doesnt affect you.

Also. Just be happy its atleast a microtransaction where you know what you get for your money unlike lootboxes..
I would more consider this a buyable service than a microtransaction..
Lootboxes, cosmetics etc i would consider mtx, but server transfers, race change and character boosts are services, not mtx in the same manner.. otherwise you might aswell classify the monthly sub as a mtx, which it is widely accepted not to be.

I can understand why people are frustrated about this, but at the same time, you gotta accept the fact that without mtx being a thing in games, the gaming industry wouldnt be as big as it is today and free to play games would basicly not exist.

If you arent happy with mtx, dont use it.. literally doesnt affect you.. if you use it, stop crying about it.

[chiddie]

Your scenario for this is bringing in a third party (another person) to do it for you. I can't see how you aren't understanding this. Also when you do this it either costs you gold, real life money, or a something to pay to person to do it. With a second account you do this for yourself, saving all this money/gold for yourself.

This

Is

An

Advantage

Period.

Your own definition is

>If it provides an in-game advantage for money, it's pay to win

My example is exactly this. There-for it's pay to win. Unless you still want to argue how it isn't, there are a TON of similarities between paid boosts and boosts that I could also argue paid boosts also aren't pay to win.

Honestly this is like explaining how water is wet to a 3 year old at this point lol. At least you're making entertainment from your mental.....issues lol.

I think that the issue relies on our personal definition of “advantage”.

For some people skipping 58 levels is perceived as a huge advantage. For other people it’s not, since TBC “starts” where the boost ends.

Even at that time I could barely stand the “journey” apart from the first time because for me the game starts at max level. I played really A LOT from day one of Vanilla since mid Cata, but I had only 4 PGs in 4 expansions (Vanilla=hunter, TBC=Druid, WotLK=DK, Cata=Shaman) because I could just not stand leveling. And ALL the people I knew ingame at that time had the same perception. Do you think that DK would have been so popular if it started at level 1? Literally 90% of ppl I knew, me included, chose it because they wanted to try a new class but could not bother to level from scratch again.

If your game is leveling up, that’s just fine. For many others it’s not, that’s just fine too. Endgame is all that matters, skipping a part of leveling in OLD content makes you only win some spare time.

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What are you talking about? They aren't even changing class balance or "hybrid taxes" (which weren't a thing in WotLK and not that potent in TBC either), the "keying" or reputation grinds. And you realize that the majority of people who play classic/tbc/whatever prefers it like this?

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I'm only calling out p2w stuff for being what they are. I don't see how your example is remotely relevant.

Because it's supposed to be an MMORPG, and having a paid option to skip content shatters any sense of being in a world of warcraft. It does by definition give this person an advantage compared to a person who decides not to buy the boost. Especially if the target goal is to level in TBC or to experience TBC endgame. In the end, I don't blame any player for purchasing this boost, I blame Blizzard for adding it when they can do compromises that are in the spirit of the old WoW which a boost definitely isn't.

Dude, boosted char won’t have a purple aura around, you won’t even notice them.

You are basically annoyed by the fact that someone can now skip the old useless content instead of doing it again (for the sake of nothing since it’s only a time sink).

I can understand the “I worked for it you have to do it too” mentality but in concrete it’s not an advantage that impacts your TBC experience by any meaning.

[arkanon]

ts like you are buying tbc again to get that boost basicly.

Glad im not the only one thinking this way - i mentioned it earlier in this thread that this REALLY feels like their way of adding a box price while avoiding the whole "i already bought tbc you cant charge me twice!" drama.

[kukkamies]

I think that the issue relies on our personal definition of “advantage”.

For some people skipping 58 levels is perceived as a huge advantage. For other people it’s not, since TBC “starts” where the boost ends.

Even at that time I could barely stand the “journey” apart from the first time because for me the game starts at max level. I played really A LOT from day one of Vanilla since mid Cata, but I had only 4 PGs in 4 expansions (Vanilla=hunter, TBC=Druid, WotLK=DK, Cata=Shaman) because I could just not stand leveling. And ALL the people I knew ingame at that time had the same perception. Do you think that DK would have been so popular if it started at level 1? Literally 90% of ppl I knew, me included, chose it because they wanted to try a new class but could not bother to level from scratch again.

If your game is leveling up, that’s just fine. For many others it’s not, that’s just fine too. Endgame is all that matters, skipping a part of leveling in OLD content makes you only win some spare time.

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Dude, boosted char won’t have a purple aura around, you won’t even notice them.

You are basically annoyed by the fact that someone can now skip the old useless content instead of doing it again (for the sake of nothing since it’s only a time sink).

I can understand the “I worked for it you have to do it too” mentality” but it’s not an advantage that impacts your TBC experience by any meaning.

It's called birds of a feather flock together. People who like same things become friends easier. On the opposite side my closest friends enjoy levelling and that's 90% of the content in WoW. Without levelling there isn't much to do. Grind gold, cosmetics and wait for raid nights, weekly pvp if you like it for extra loot. WoW was always a little playtime game compared to other games from it's time period like Runescape.

Glad im not the only one thinking this way - i mentioned it earlier in this thread that this REALLY feels like their way of adding a box price while avoiding the whole "i already bought tbc you cant charge me twice!" drama.

It's a pretty good way to rationalize liking p2w and micto transactions. You can be honest as well. People can and do like mtx, and a lot of us don't. There's a reason World of Tanks, all those mobile games and even mtx in PoE are popular.

[zhorteye]

Glad im not the only one thinking this way - i mentioned it earlier in this thread that this REALLY feels like their way of adding a box price while avoiding the whole "i already bought tbc you cant charge me twice!" drama.

Well, yeah. And honestly, i can see why blizz wants to monetize classic atleast a little.. running servers on the scale that an mmo requires isnt cheap.. and the classic team is clearly growing, which requires more money for the team.. its already amazing that vanilla classic has been able to be supported through the retail sub without a pricechange.. people just need to cut blizzard some slack here.. literally 99% of the posts both here on mmo and on the official forums are all people hating on anything blizzard does.

If you dont like it, stop playing the game.. it hurts blizzards moral to create these games and if people really hated it so much why keep playing.. Atleast we know what we get with the mtx compared to stuff like overwatch lootboxes.. which is why unless youre buying mounts, pets, tokens(the only pay to win) or cosmetics(like the helms back in the day) you really arent buying mtx, rather youre buying a service..

[chiddie]

It's called birds of a feather flock together. People who like same things become friends easier. On the opposite side my closest friends enjoy levelling and that's 90% of the content in WoW. Without levelling there isn't much to do. Grind gold, cosmetics and wait for raid nights, weekly pvp if you like it for extra loot. WoW was always a little playtime game compared to other games from it's time period like Runescape.


It's a pretty good way to rationalize liking p2w and micto transactions. You can be honest as well. People can and do like mtx, and a lot of us don't. There's a reason World of Tanks, all those mobile games and even mtx in PoE are popular.

When you play 5 hours a day and the last thing you think about is leveling a new char (not only you but almost all the people around you, we were a big guild and were “friends” with other big guilds) it’s clear that you’re not that enthusiast about the leveling process.

I’ve never bought a char boost and never will (at a certain point I had 4 free boosts at different levels available because I could not care less) but I don’t have any issue with ppl buying them, people will have to do the actual content anyways to level the char up.

Edit: also, because things change, today I literally love the leveling process and have no issues in rolling a new class from scratch if I feel I wanna do it . I ended BfA with 8-9 level 50 chars and I enjoyed leveling all of them regardless my few spare time.

[zhorteye]

When you play 5 hours a day and the last thing you think about is leveling a new char (not only you but almost all the people around you, we were a big guild and were “friends” with other big guilds) it’s clear that you’re not that enthusiast about the leveling process.

I’ve never bought a char boost and never will (at a certain point I had 4 free boosts at different levels available because I could not care less) but I don’t have any issue with ppl buying them, people will have to do the actual content anyways to level the char up.

Edit: also, because things change, today I literally love the leveling process and have no issues in rolling a new class from scratch if I feel I wanna do it . I ended BfA with 8-9 level 50 chars and I enjoyed leveling all of them regardless my few spare time.

Happy to see someone living by the "dont like it dont use it" philosophy instead of just raging that it even exists.

[chiddie]

Happy to see someone living by the "dont like it dont use it" philosophy instead of just raging that it even exists.

I can’t see why I should live else, because I can’t see the advantage. If someone is willing to pay to skip part of useless leveling, for me it’s no problem at all.

[Lolites]

They could just add recruit-a-friend again which existed towards the end of TBC if they wanted people to not have to do the "grind" of 1-58. There are also already improvements for the vanilla part of leveling implemented in TBC such as less exp needed and more quests. But of course they have to ruin the integrity of the game and just add a boost lol. I'm not arguing about whether or not it's p2w since it's pretty much the definition of p2w, there's no argument to be had.

no arguing about if its p2w (its not)
BUT riddle me this:

someone appearing at lvl 58 becouse he bought boost breaks immersion, but someone emergin as lvl 60 from dungeon bcs he bought boost for gold doesnt?
and someone appearing as lvl 60 bcs he copied char from vanila doesnt?

after few hours into TBC you couldnt tell difference who boosted and who leveled, so how exactly it breaks immersion?

[Frozenbro]

I'm only calling out p2w stuff for being what they are. I don't see how your example is remotely relevant.

Because it's supposed to be an MMORPG, and having a paid option to skip content shatters any sense of being in a world of warcraft. It does by definition give this person an advantage compared to a person who decides not to buy the boost. Especially if the target goal is to level in TBC or to experience TBC endgame. In the end, I don't blame any player for purchasing this boost, I blame Blizzard for adding it when they can do compromises that are in the spirit of the old WoW which a boost definitely isn't.

If the problem is that its paid then blizz could give the option for free once per account to get an insta 58 if you dont have any 58+ character, that way you can skip the useless leveling and trash content that classic has, and sorry but people wanna play TBC, even tho 1-60 is part of world of warcraft, it isnt part of TBC and people are in their right if they wanna skip that clown content.

[Lolites]

'ppl still kill each others, so we should just kill them'
'ppl still will take cocaine even if it is illegal, so we should just let ppl do drugs'
I agree that this boost isn't p2w, just abusing idiots who are willing to pay a full game price for just a boost, but the concept of allowing something because 'ppl do it anyway' is wrong, because lot of ppl do wrong stuff, law exist for a reason
this is almost like say that buying gold is illegal for years, so u sell it urself, oh wait...

this might shock you, but murder is illegal bcs it hurts OTHERS, boost doesnt
as for drugs, YES, we should let people use them, wherever they legalised drugs it leads to less consumption, less crime and less medical expenses in country...

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I don't mind the boost really, however I think that there are a lot of people who aren't you, who dislike it and think it will impact their experience.

and there are people who think earth is flat, sadly we cant make stupidity dissapear...
or should we just nod head and agree with them even though they are wrong?

[Ludvig]

Dude, boosted char won’t have a purple aura around, you won’t even notice them.

You are basically annoyed by the fact that someone can now skip the old useless content instead of doing it again (for the sake of nothing since it’s only a time sink).

I can understand the “I worked for it you have to do it too” mentality but in concrete it’s not an advantage that impacts your TBC experience by any meaning.

No. I don't care about the players that will use it. I don't care whether or not they skip 1-60. I even understand them. What I do care about is that Blizzard themselves are just throwing this money grabbing stuff and ruining the integrity of the game. Stuff like this is what gave us retail, and what retail turned into made people want the old WoW which is why we got classic. Throwing it in again just defeats the whole purpose.

[kranur]

It will impact my fun, it will impact my enjoyment of playing the AH when I play the game. I'd be at a MASSIVE disadvantage that didn't exist in Vanilla going to TBC. I wouldn't have a chance trying to focus on jewelcrafting for massive gold returns because the market of mats would be destroyed instantly. Want to buy consumables? Yeah they are far far more expensive now, why? Because old gold from classic sets the market. I'd feel the impact of being not full strength because I wouldn't have the potions/flasks/drums/and so on.

That is my reason for staying away if it comes out as stated.

Wait, so you mean back in vanilla people didn't know about tbc and jewelcrafting? And they didn't hoard gold way ahead of time?

[Ludvig]

I'm talking about your comment of the lead designer of Vanilla-wotlk facepalming. You seem to think that matters and I'm pointing out they've had their hands in doing some silly shit in vanilla-wotlk.

This "silly shit" is exactly what you're getting with classic/tbc/wotlk, so I really don't see the point.

[chiddie]

No. I don't care about the players that will use it. I don't care whether or not they skip 1-60. I even understand them. What I do care about is that Blizzard themselves are just throwing this money grabbing stuff and ruining the integrity of the game. Stuff like this is what gave us retail, and what retail turned into made people want the old WoW which is why we got classic. Throwing it in again just defeats the whole purpose.

Retail has not been “ruined” by leveling boosts.

Game changed because it was too much time sinking. I would not have cared if 1-58 boost would have existed back then also.

I remember all the time I spent in TBC to obtain the Druid flight form, it went for free after some years, I didn’t get mad in the slightest.

Again, you are not getting a 70 char with epic flying mount, two professions of your choice maxed out and a full T5 set, you are getting an average joe 58 char just to skip Classic leveling.