Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[Aucald]

But they didn't "create a naru", they only healed him with one of their items. And suddenly Kadgar says I believe it.
It is more likely that Elune's tear is simply an item that he can heal since he is already healing 3 or 4 things.

And if she really create the narus .. she also create a lot of things from the domain of Life.

The connection there is between Light's Heart (the sentient core of Xe'ra) and the fact that only someone in Xe'ra's lineage can open the core to access its memories. We take the core to Velen, who lets us know that O'ros is in Xe'ra's line and can help us open Light's Heart. But then O'ros gets ganked by the Legion, and we're basically left with an unlockable Naaru core. Khadgar finds some anecdotal evidence that Elune might have created the Naaru, and so we use the Tear of Elune to try to unlock the core and it works - which seems to cement the fact that Elune is somehow related to the Naaru, enough that Xe'ra's core recognizes her energies as "in the lineage of Xe'ra" and thus works to open the core and let us view its memories.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

All of Maiev's Magic comes from Elune and the Kaldorei's ability to hide in the shadows comes from Elune and the night war comes from Elune.

All that clearly Light is not.

Light magic isn't only the flashy human stuff them using it in a different way doesn't make it not light and again nothing points to it being shadow or void.

if any thing there just playing off of the moon's light being reflected normal light and giving it a different spin, we already know for example Elune worshipers can become pally's.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah that's what I thought. Let us not confuse speculation with facts, please.

Funny how you just ignore everything else that supported my assumption lmao

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The connection there is between Light's Heart (the sentient core of Xe'ra) and the fact that only someone in Xe'ra's lineage can open the core to access its memories. We take the core to Velen, who lets us know that O'ros is in Xe'ra's line and can help us open Light's Heart. But then O'ros gets ganked by the Legion, and we're basically left with an unlockable Naaru core. Khadgar finds some anecdotal evidence that Elune might have created the Naaru, and so we use the Tear of Elune to try to unlock the core and it works - which seems to cement the fact that Elune is somehow related to the Naaru, enough that Xe'ra's core recognizes her energies as "in the lineage of Xe'ra" and thus works to open the core and let us view its memories.

I found this neat theory on why Elune has connections with the Light: “Maybe Elune is one of the lifelords in the life pantheon, and her connection to the light will be handwaved and explained by saying "Light seeded life in the beginning of the universe" during the void/light clash or something.”

This was from Nobbel87’s discord. Makes a ton of sense imo

[Aucald]

I found this neat theory on why Elune has connections with the Light: “Maybe Elune is one of the lifelords in the life pantheon, and her connection to the light will be handwaved and explained by saying "Light seeded life in the beginning of the universe" during the void/light clash or something.”

This was from Nobbel87’s discord. Makes a ton of sense imo

It's possible, and as you approach the apex of the metacosm perhaps the distinctions between Light and Life and the other primordial essences become a lot more fuzzy.

[geco]

What I'm going to is that it is absurd to say that Elune is a being "only of light".
He is of light, surplus, life, aracano and death at least. He showed a power in all these fields during different periods.

[Nagawithlegs]

I'll throw my hat in the ring and propose that the First Ones are in fact the pantheons of Light and Void. Not that they made the different planes of magic, but they were the ones here first.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What I'm going to is that it is absurd to say that Elune is a being "only of light".
He is of light, surplus, life, aracano and death at least. He showed a power in all these fields during different periods.

same question as to hightlord, where? the arcane stuff was explained away by it being titan blood not Elune, she hasn't done any nature stuff i can think of other then sleep with a deer, and no death I can think of other then divine intervention which falls to light or soothing of pain which also falls to light.

[Engal]

"Blablabla she is not a First One "

It doesnt confirm anything

In fact, that's quite the opposite. Where is Elune in SL? Nowhere.

The Winter Queen says that she abandoned her.

It ciment the fact that something happened to Elune, and my bet is that she ascended as a First One.

Xal called her " An Upstart Godess " which fits this Idea. She'd never call the Winter Queen, or the Titan like that.

Showing us and placing hint to explain what happens to her is a way to pave the goal of Zovaal who probably wants to ascend to remake reality , by getting the power of the First One. If we are shown it happened before, we will know what he wants to do and the need to stop him fast.

[Rockefellah]

"Blablabla she is not a First One "

It doesnt confirm anything

In fact, that's quite the opposite. Where is Elune in SL? Nowhere.

The Winter Queen says that she abandoned her.

It ciment the fact that something happened to Elune, and my bet is that she ascended as a First One.

Xal called her " An Upstart Godess " which fits this Idea. She'd never call the Winter Queen, or the Titan like that.

Showing us and placing hint to explain what happens to her is a way to pave the goal of Zovaal who probably wants to ascend to remake reality , by getting the power of the First One. If we are shown it happened before, we will know what he wants to do and the need to stop him fast.

Currently my 2 cents are on that Elune was a First One (like Zovaal, The Winter Queen and the Primus etc.) and somehow ascended into god hood in the mortal realm. Timeline wise this would have happened after 16000 years ago (during the time of the Twin Empires, in vanilla/classic a book talks about "However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven.")

[Pheraz]

Currently my 2 cents are on that Elune was a First One (like Zovaal, The Winter Queen and the Primus etc.) and somehow ascended into god hood in the mortal realm. Timeline wise this would have happened after 16000 years ago (during the time of the Twin Empires, in vanilla/classic a book talks about "However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven.")

Man can't we have a time travel xpac in the time of trolls and kaldorei. This stuff sounds so much cooler than the crap we have here in SL. I freaking hate this xpac.

[Houle]

In truth if they showed you that it was something very powerful in chronicles.
Where it was the only thing that could not be explained and in the grand scheme.
So they made it clear that she would be above 6 forces. (Although not necessarily stronger).

Although I emphasize that the truth is that they do not like the kaldorei and did not explain anything new about them in all chronicles. We don't even know why they are part of the Alliance yet.

yeah, no. they showed nothing of the sort. she just wasnt explained. doesnt even remotely mean shes something above all else. a lot of things werent mentioned in chronicles.
the eternal ones. the jailer. hell, hakkars origins are still unknown and not explained in chronicles, and hes definitely not "above everyone"

To say they're the Titans but better would be to assume they're Order beings, when they're not. They're the guys that made the entire Cosmic framework such as the Cosmic powers we see, etc.

im talking about what the titans used to be, obviously, not when they were turned into creatures of "order"
before this whole thing with "cosmic forces" where everyone gets their own pantheon and whatever.

back then, the titans were simply these big, godlike creator-type figures, who made and ordered the cosmos. seriously, look up some old lore. basically exactly what the first ones are implied to be now.

[TheFirstOnes]

Guys. For the 90th time this year...

The First Ones are NOT the Eternal Ones.

[Engal]

Currently my 2 cents are on that Elune was a Eternal One (like Zovaal, The Winter Queen and the Primus etc.) and somehow ascended into god hood in the mortal realm. Timeline wise this would have happened after 16000 years ago (during the time of the Twin Empires, in vanilla/classic a book talks about "However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven.")

You can't throw a random timeline. Elune created the Naaru during the Great Ordering of Light and Shadow ( according to Kadghar's book ) which would be during the era of the First Ones, when the universe was being ordered, the cosmos forces shaped, and the pantheon's birth.

This era could have spanned over hundred or thousands years for all we know.

[Rockefellah]

yeah, no. they showed nothing of the sort. she just wasnt explained. doesnt even remotely mean shes something above all else. a lot of things werent mentioned in chronicles.
the eternal ones. the jailer. hell, hakkars origins are still unknown and not explained in chronicles, and hes definitely not "above everyone"

im talking about what the titans used to be obviously, not when they where turned into creatures of "order"
before this whole thing with "cosmic forces" where everyone gets their own pantheon and whatever.

back in then, the titans were simply these big, godlike creator-type figures, who made and ordered the cosmos. seriously, look up some old lore. basically exactly what the first ones are implied to be now.

Big difference between the titans and the first ones:

The First ones created the cosmos

The Titans (as the Pantheon of Order) ordered the cosmos to their liking.

Mortals not knowing any better (remember, we view the lore from the in game mortals point of view), attributed things done by the First Ones to the Titans.

Now if the Winter Queen is on the level of a titan (as being part of the Pantheon of Death), and Elune is her sister and is an Upstart Goddess. To me it then makes sense that Elune was on the level of a titan and has since then been ascended. Likely she is not on the level of the First Ones, but she is likely stronger then a titan level entity.

First Ones

Void Lords / Light Counter part?

Elune somewhere here?

Titans (Order) / Eternal Ones (including the Winter Queen) (Death) / Wild Gods (is Hakkar a Wild God?) (Life) / Burning Legion (Disorder) / Naaru (Light) / Old Gods (Shadow - Void)

Titan Keepers

Elemental Lords / Dragon Aspects

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You can't throw a random timeline. Elune created the Naaru during the Great Ordering of Light and Shadow ( according to Kadghar's book ) which would be during the era of the First Ones, when the universe was being ordered, the cosmos forces shaped, and the pantheon's birth.

This era could have spanned over hundred or thousands years for all we know.

I think Khadghar was wrong. Remember we see lore from the point of view of mortals. It tends to change quite a bit to what they think is what is the truth - its not retconning, it simply discovering stuff. Just like how we in real life come to new conclusions about what is what. I picked the Twin Empire time as that is apparently the moment that Dark Trolls Ascended into Night Elfs - so at this point Elune started to interfere with mortal life in our realm.

Though of course her ascension to godhood could indeed be hundred or thousand years prior to that, and she could still have created the Naaru.

Who do we say is now responsible for the Great Ordering of Light and Shadow? Is this the First Ones (who supposedly created the light and the shadow), or the Pantheon of Order (the Titans) who went about ordering what the

[ohwell]

Because Danuser is jealous of Metzen, systematically ruining everything with bad fanfiction tier writing to supplant it with his own.

Unfortunately for him, he has no creativity whatsoever. (Remember, the theme of SL is "X but more Xy!" First Ones, Titans but more Titany! Maldraxas, Scourge but more Scourgey! And so on.)

Elune under Metzen was the sole confirmed deity, rarely directly intervening but spectacularly when it happened. Much like how continuity and existing lore is viewed as a constraint on the current "writers", having an actual deity would force them to answer why she doesn't intervene this time.

Ok let's not even vaguely imply that Metzen was doing even anything remotely good for lore. He constantly made up bullcrap on the spot to get a reaction out of people and flex the "power" he gained as the way he acted at Blizzcon is like that of someone who used to get bullied as a kid then trying to act like you're supremely "cool" in adulthood when you really aren't. I mean my god how many things had he said between Blizzcon and Twitter that were verifiably inaccurate with my favorite being that he claimed the deaths of Cthun and Yogg caused the Cataclysm DURING the expansion when if you actually quested you are literally told the elemental upheaval is caused by the world pillar being broken by DW's emergence which also had nothing to do with the 2 dying.

[kiramon]

Ok let's not even vaguely imply that Metzen was doing even anything remotely good for lore. He constantly made up bullcrap on the spot to get a reaction out of people and flex the "power" he gained as the way he acted at Blizzcon is like that of someone who used to get bullied as a kid then trying to act like you're supremely "cool" in adulthood when you really aren't. I mean my god how many things had he said between Blizzcon and Twitter that were verifiably inaccurate with my favorite being that he claimed the deaths of Cthun and Yogg caused the Cataclysm DURING the expansion when if you actually quested you are literally told the elemental upheaval is caused by the world pillar being broken by DW's emergence which also had nothing to do with the 2 dying.

Lol isn’t it shown in the cutscenes too

[username993720]

You do realize Elune can still be "the summer/spring queen", yes?

Kinda counter-productive, as the moon was never associated with spring and summer.

On the other hand, i never thought of her as a death entity, either. So, there's that...

[Molvonos]

Ok let's not even vaguely imply that Metzen was doing even anything remotely good for lore. He constantly made up bullcrap on the spot to get a reaction out of people and flex the "power" he gained as the way he acted at Blizzcon is like that of someone who used to get bullied as a kid then trying to act like you're supremely "cool" in adulthood when you really aren't. I mean my god how many things had he said between Blizzcon and Twitter that were verifiably inaccurate with my favorite being that he claimed the deaths of Cthun and Yogg caused the Cataclysm DURING the expansion when if you actually quested you are literally told the elemental upheaval is caused by the world pillar being broken by DW's emergence which also had nothing to do with the 2 dying.

lol, you realize Metzen wrote just about all of the lore in the original Warcraft games, as well as a sizable chunk of WoW's lore?

You're bitching that the man who wrote the lore, didn't do anything good for the lore.

What?

[Triceron]

Ok let's not even vaguely imply that Metzen was doing even anything remotely good for lore. He constantly made up bullcrap on the spot to get a reaction out of people and flex the "power" he gained as the way he acted at Blizzcon is like that of someone who used to get bullied as a kid then trying to act like you're supremely "cool" in adulthood when you really aren't. I mean my god how many things had he said between Blizzcon and Twitter that were verifiably inaccurate with my favorite being that he claimed the deaths of Cthun and Yogg caused the Cataclysm DURING the expansion when if you actually quested you are literally told the elemental upheaval is caused by the world pillar being broken by DW's emergence which also had nothing to do with the 2 dying.

Reading a book and being a keen fan of its lore is very different than writing the lore and keeping track of the thousands of iterations that an entire team of designers has their hands in. Metzen wasn't the sole creative visionary behind Warcraft, he was a founding member with seniority but by no means did he have full creative control.

We know the designers have pushed back on many of his lore suggestions, and this ultimately changes how he personally sees the lore compared to what ends up in the game. It's possible that one of the iterations of the Cataclysm involved him writing in Old Gods causing parts of the Cataclysm, while the designers ended up wanting to push everything onto Deathwing causing it because it's easier to understand who the 'big bad' of the expansion will be. There's so many iterations of the lore that he goes through that there's no way he can get it all accurate, which is why we see the Red Shirt guy moments happen. Falstad wasn't even a character he created, it was a character in the novel that was propped up higher in position in WoW, and not likely due to Metzen's own intentions.

As someone who works in a creative entertainment field, there's so many iterations happening that developers really see a different picture than the one that the fans all get. It's rare that any one visionary has full creative control. And when we consider how Warcraft overall is a giant multimedia project without a real 'George Lucas' behind it, it's easy to see how inconsistencies and wrong answers from the devs will show through.

[Magnificent Madmartegan]

It doesn't exactly mean she's her sister though.... NE in general call all fellow female NEs "sisters". Its a phrase we've heard in WoW since Vanilla from the NEs. Though of course the Winter Queen isn't a NE but it wouldn't shock me that beings of similar faiths or lifestyles would use the same phrases....