Shadowlands could be amazing if...

[iinverse]

Good God, didn't you guys get this "it's not Warcraft" bullshit out of your system in MoP? Who are you to say something doesn't belong in a franchise as kitchen sink as this. We had the afterlife, undead, and aliens from day one.

The only problem that SL isnt afterlife.

It feels like just a couple of zones on the other side of the portal.

Its like you died and appeared in the other world where you will do the same you did in real world - eat, sleep, go to work, etc. And you can die in afterlife too. Shittiest afterlife concept ever.

[Crimson Spears]

Honestly blizzard just needs to dumpster alternative progression systems and gimmick content and go back to their bread and butter with dungeons and raiding.

[cparle87]

MoP was 100% Warcraft though. It just wasn't very popular back then. Shadowlands is 99% made up and connecting lose ends just to connect them. Shadowlands feels not like Warcraft, there's a reason why so many people think that. The entire afterlives stuff itself is very neat, but there are so so so so many logical flaws and storytelling issues that it makes zero sense for the Warcraft universe.

Don't you remember lolpandas? People said the exact same thing, it "didn't feel" like Warcraft. And now we have you saying this. There were "so so many flaws" that it made no sense for the Warcraft universe. I literally heard these exact same comments 8 years ago.

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The only problem that SL isnt afterlife.

It feels like just a couple of zones on the other side of the portal.

Its like you died and appeared in the other world where you will do the same you did in real world - eat, sleep, go to work, etc. And you can die in afterlife too. Shittiest afterlife concept ever.

Most afterlife concepts have ways for you to die again, typically dispersing into some reincarnation cycle. Look at popular anime like Bleach or Naruto, or even supernatural ones like Blue Exorcist.

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Honestly blizzard just needs to dumpster alternative progression systems and gimmick content and go back to their bread and butter with dungeons and raiding.

And we'll go right back to the forums crying about "nothing to do" like they did in WoD. Everything Blizzard has done with systems since Legion on is in response to those whiners, and we're getting what they demanded.

[Toby451]

Shadowlands is mostly just BFA but with less content and less grinds. It could have been amazing if they went more towards the TBC/WotLK route instead.

What does this even mean? Standing in ironforge because there is literally nothing to do besides raids/pvp? Or the daily quests grind that everyone loves oh-so-much?

[Crimson Spears]

Don't you remember lolpandas? People said the exact same thing, it "didn't feel" like Warcraft. And now we have you saying this. There were "so so many flaws" that it made no sense for the Warcraft universe. I literally heard these exact same comments 8 years ago.

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Most afterlife concepts have ways for you to die again, typically dispersing into some reincarnation cycle. Look at popular anime like Bleach or Naruto, or even supernatural ones like Blue Exorcist.

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And we'll go right back to the forums crying about "nothing to do" like they did in WoD. Everything Blizzard has done with systems since Legion on is in response to those whiners, and we're getting what they demanded.

Yeah but those people are still whining they have nothing to do with 2/3 of lfr cleared....

You can't appease people who pay money to complain about a game they don't play.

[Biomega]

...it was actually fun to play, rather than a tiny drop of fun couched in a bunch of systems trying to keep you playing for longer.

[unbound]

I wouldn't even give the dungeons and raid a whole lot of credit. We've seen pretty much the same mechanics over the past couple of expansions...just more nonsense to memorize that has zero wiggle room to do something creative with.

Honestly tired with unavoidable damage mechanics and dancing around (literally in one case) that many times makes no sense in the context of the world we are adventuring in. The only fight that I find interesting in Nathria is Sun King's Salvation where there is some flexibility in player activity, cc has some usefulness, and healing isn't just about keeping up everyone from waves of unavoidable damage. Most of the rest of the fights are just dps, tank, and heal while dancing from one mechanic to the next.

[iinverse]

Most afterlife concepts have ways for you to die again, typically dispersing into some reincarnation cycle. Look at popular anime like Bleach or Naruto, or even supernatural ones like Blue Exorcist.

Dying in afterlife concept is the least of SL lore problem.
It doesnt feel like afterlife because its the same sh*t like "real" world. If it was released as the new islands/planet and it wouldn't make any difference.

[Nyel]

Don't you remember lolpandas? People said the exact same thing, it "didn't feel" like Warcraft. And now we have you saying this. There were "so so many flaws" that it made no sense for the Warcraft universe. I literally heard these exact same comments 8 years ago.

Yeah, but that was bs 9 years ago and it still is. Pandaren (in the form of Chen) have been part of Warcraft since forever. Everything in the Shadowlands has been introduced in this expansion. 99% of the lore is new and most of it isn't even good or - as I said - makes sense.

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Dying in afterlife concept is the least of SL lore problem.
It doesnt feel like afterlife because its the same sh*t like "real" world. If it was released as the new islands/planet and it wouldn't make any difference.

So much this.

Everything in the Shadowlands is said to be so important and so impactful, yet it seems to simply not matter.

[cparle87]

Yeah but those people are still whining they have nothing to do with 2/3 of lfr cleared....

You can't appease people who pay money to complain about a game they don't play.

Preaching to the choir, bruddah.

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Yeah, but that was bs 9 years ago and it still is. Pandaren (in the form of Chen) have been part of Warcraft since forever. Everything in the Shadowlands has been introduced in this expansion. 99% of the lore is new and most of it isn't even good or - as I said - makes sense.

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So much this.

Everything in the Shadowlands is said to be so important and so impactful, yet it seems to simply not matter.

WC3 isn't forever. We have people complaining that things from the first 2 RTS games weren't kept forward. Also, not everything from Shadowlands is new. We've known about Mueh'zala since vanilla, though we had little info on him. We've also known about Bwonsamdi since Cata, though again little info till BFA. Good is subjective, as is "makes sense." Can't make sweeping generalizations that can't be refuted.

Again all your arguments seem based on feels, not any logic. So tell me, what happens if the Jailer wins? And every being that ever dies anywhere goes right to the Maw? He already has the power to at least act in the world of the living. He gets that kind of power we're looking at omniversal level apocalypse. Even the Legion or Void Lords wouldn't go that far.

[iinverse]

So much this.

Everything in the Shadowlands is said to be so important and so impactful, yet it seems to simply not matter.

Especially when it comes to lore and made Chronicles non-canon (lol to all who bought it).

[Nyel]

Especially when it comes to lore and made Chronicles non-canon (lol to all who bought it).

That's simply Shadowlands' biggest problem. The Jailer is the new super massive super strong super villain? Okay. He has no build up before Shadowlands, he has barely any build up in Shadowlands and he most likely will be dealt with / killed in 9.2. Guess that's how you create a new villain that's just a little below Sargeras' power level, isn't it? It's just so ridiculous. If 10.0 isn't in any way related to the Shadowlands or the Jailer, the Jailer had the least impact of any final expansion boss yet. Pretty laughable for a Sargeras wannabe.

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Again all your arguments seem based on feels, not any logic. So tell me, what happens if the Jailer wins? And every being that ever dies anywhere goes right to the Maw? He already has the power to at least act in the world of the living. He gets that kind of power we're looking at omniversal level apocalypse. Even the Legion or Void Lords wouldn't go that far.

See above.

And it's not based on feels alone. Logic? Why are there only Azerothian souls in Shadowlands, mixed with a handful of others when Shadowlands is basically the afterlive for everyone in the entire universe? Why do the Covenants act like the biggest idiots by working against each other and not working together (at least until 9.1) although the Jailer is such a massive threat? Why are the Eternal Ones such a joke and seem to be weak af? Why is the Jailer supposedly so much stronger than his brothers & sisters? It goes on and on and on. Shadowlands lore is interesting, but the writing is terrible.

[cparle87]

That's simply Shadowlands' biggest problem. The Jailer is the new super massive super strong super villain? Okay. He has no build up before Shadowlands, he has barely any build up in Shadowlands and he most likely will be dealt with / killed in 9.2. Guess that's how you create a new villain that's just a little below Sargeras' power level, isn't it? It's just so ridiculous. If 10.0 isn't in any way related to the Shadowlands or the Jailer, the Jailer had the least impact of any final expansion boss yet. Pretty laughable for a Sargeras wannabe.

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See above.

And it's not based on feels alone. Logic? Why are there only Azerothian souls in Shadowlands, mixed with a handful of others when Shadowlands is basically the afterlive for everyone in the entire universe? Why do the Covenants act like the biggest idiots by working against each other and not working together (at least until 9.1) although the Jailer is such a massive threat? Why are the Eternal Ones such a joke and seem to be weak af? Why is the Jailer supposedly so much stronger than his brothers & sisters? It goes on and on and on. Shadowlands lore is interesting, but the writing is terrible.

Why do you keep asking questions that anyone who paid attention to the lore would know, like why the covenants are "working against each other"? There are innumerable realms in the Shadowlands, we're only visiting a few of them. And even though we do meet some people we know the overwhelming majority of people we have no idea where they came from or what they were when they were alive. Since all 4 of them change the souls who come there in some way. Why is the Jailer so much stronger than the others? We've been told the answers to these. It just goes to prove the people who claim the lore makes no sense are the ones who never bothered to pay attention to it.

[froschhure]

By fun you mean broken. How fun is it in PvP when you get 1 shot from X player because they stacked corruptions to 1-shot you? How fun is PvE when raid bosses require super precision because corruption gives so much player power that in order to be "dangerous" raid encounters have to be able to 1-shot players?

I was and i am only always talking about pve, in fact mythic+. I have no clue about pvp. But i would seem to agree with you.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Shadowlands is just CAT 2.0 with time gates on everything. If all you want from a MMO is to raid/arena/m+ log then it's great, but that isn't what I personally want from a MMO. I want an actual world with crafting and gathering that doesn't suck.

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With this priority system.

Raid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M+ >>>>>> Rbg >> Everything else

Raids should be the easiest and least rewarding end game. They should go back to being social experiences with friends and not needing to play with the most tryhard people alive to make any progress. Completely ruined raiding by turning it into Wildstar.

[Soon-TM]

Shadowlands is just CAT 2.0 with time gates on everything. If all you want from a MMO is to raid/arena/m+ log then it's great, but that isn't what I personally want from a MMO. I want an actual world with crafting and gathering that doesn't suck.

At least devs did a great effort in Cata by revamping most of the old world in order to have it ready for flight. The 4-5 small zones of SL are simply underwhelming.

[Th3Scourge]

Congrats, you just alienated all the PvP and M+ people. Also pet battling players and transmog players are upset that their wants/needs aren't being addressed either.

Good, fuck em. Game doesn't need to cater for everyone.

[hulkgor]

This is just my personal opinion, but I feel like Shadowlands had the potential to be amazing. Terrible time gating, zones and characters i couldn't give a shit less about, and awful drop percentages has really taken away its shine. That being said, i absolutely love the new dungeons and raiding. Some new and inventive boss fights, along with Castle Nathria's excellent design and music made for some of the most memorable fights i'd taken place in in a long time. Hopefully they get the shit closer to right with the next patch onward.

Wouldn't that reasoning work for every single expansion?

"If they fix the bad things" or "if they expand on the good ones", you'd always have amazing expansions.

That said, i pretty much like Shadowlands. Vastly superior to BFA on the 'expansion features' (anything would be better than Warfronts and Island Poopxpeditions) and the borrowed powers (legendaries and conduits > azerite powers). The dungeons and raid are top notch so far, i liked the inhospitableness of the Maw, i still run Torghast from time to time, bla bla.

Yes, lack of flight whistle sucks, and the shadowlands format and travel length between zones also sucks, but besides that, i'm really enjoying it. Solid 8/10.

[arkanon]

Why are there only Azerothian souls in Shadowlands, mixed with a handful of others when Shadowlands is basically the afterlive for everyone in the entire universe? Why do the Covenants act like the biggest idiots by working against each other and not working together (at least until 9.1) although the Jailer is such a massive threat? Why are the Eternal Ones such a joke and seem to be weak af? Why is the Jailer supposedly so much stronger than his brothers & sisters? It goes on and on and on. Shadowlands lore is interesting, but the writing is terrible.

To quote the pitch meeting guy on YouTube "so the story can happen!"

[Parmas]

We finnaly kill off Sylvanas. So it is cool xpack!