Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Relapses]

I mean there is a clear difference between working to stop it and having the first 30 post in lfg selling boosts and trade chat being near unusable...

Got any ideas to stop it?

[Crimson Spears]

But if using gold is pay to win then how can they actually fight that with out removing gold?

You remove the wow token. The amount of people even with how devalued gold is today that could actively use boosting services is miniscule.

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Got any ideas to stop it?

Hire a few GMs to actively monitor it and mute accounts spamming it...

[Lochton]

I mean there is a clear difference between working to stop it and having the first 30 post in lfg selling boosts and trade chat being near unusable...

Alas, Blizzard does not have the staff to constantly check and needs us to be watchdogs.

The boost messages lately for EU has been much less than it used to be. I still report all boost messages in trade chat as spam, and report the ones in the LFG as spam too.

[Relapses]

Get active gm moderation of trade chat and lfd/lfg The game shouldn't be overflowing with spam.

Because GMs grow on trees? Do they just go to the GM factory and print a couple thousand new GMs?

[rhorle]

You remove the wow token. The amount of people even with how devalued gold is today that could actively use boosting services is miniscule.

That doesn't fix pay to win though. It just means people either buy gold from tos breaking places. Or the cost of boosts drop to what is reasonable with out the token. Gold will still be used to win.

[Lochton]

But if using gold is pay to win then how can they actually fight that with out removing gold?

Then it'll just be something else traded.

[rhorle]

Because GMs grow on trees? Do they just go to the GM factory and print a couple thousand new GMs?

To be fair hiring a boat load of people is pretty much the equivalent of growing on trees or printing GMs. While there is some degree of training required monitoring chat/lfg is not a highly technical job.

[Relapses]

That doesn't fix pay to win though. It just means people either buy gold from tos breaking places. Or the cost of boosts drop to what is reasonable with out the token. Gold will still be used to win.

Boosts are already almost exclusively bought through RMT anyway. Just because the "boosting communities" pay the raiders doing the boosts with gold doesn't mean the customer who bought the boost paid for it with gold they obtained themselves.

[Lochton]

You remove the wow token. The amount of people even with how devalued gold is today that could actively use boosting services is miniscule.

So, by removal of the token, we should also remove all tradeable TCG collected items and make the TCG codes that are unclaimed, expire. That is a few thousand dollars going down the drain and a lot of angry people.

Hire a few GMs to actively monitor it and mute accounts spamming it...

Alas, the right GM's are hard to find. Wish they would start hiring GM's running a punch-card method. Give them the basic tools but their salary is calculated on how much time they clock while being productive.

[rhorle]

Then it'll just be something else traded.

So nothing changes. It is the same with or without the token because gold is what is being traded and not money. The token just trades gold from X person to another for a subscription or Blizzard gift cards.

[Lochton]

To be fair hiring a boat load of people is pretty much the equivalent of growing on trees or printing GMs. While there is some degree of training required monitoring chat/lfg is not a highly technical job.

I'm working part time, I'll gladly apply if it was work from home and not having to travel to France or the US..

[Relapses]

To be fair hiring a boat load of people is pretty much the equivalent of growing on trees or printing GMs. While there is some degree of training required monitoring chat/lfg is not a highly technical job.

This assumes that a GM's job doesn't have vastly more important functions than monitoring trade/LFG.

[Tyris Flare]

Boosts are already almost exclusively bought through RMT anyway. Just because the "boosting communities" pay the raiders doing the boosts with gold doesn't mean the customer who bought the boost paid for it with gold they obtained themselves.

I don't know about "almost exclusively." I think the token cut down on RMT a lot. It was just replaced with RMT (token) that Blizzard now gets a cut of, like the mob wanting its share.

Guilds in the past used to make so much money from RMT they could buy everyone a ticket to Blizzcon and get hotels. Now it is *mostly* in game gold, though of course you can't stop it completely.

I think one of the more interesting arguments is whether it is a better outcome to pay some 20 year old who needed the money $1000 to play your account and get you gladiator vs spending the same cash on wow tokens and giving the corporation money instead. Are either of those "ethical?"

[Crimson Spears]

Because GMs grow on trees? Do they just go to the GM factory and print a couple thousand new GMs?

I think they can hire a few at slave labor price as a intern position to improve their game...

[Lochton]

So nothing changes. It is the same with or without the token because gold is what is being traded and not money. The token just trades gold from X person to another for a subscription or Blizzard gift cards.

That is what I've been trying to tell people in the thread, hence I added TCG as a connection. Both are Blizzard generated, both are made to be purchased for real money, both are made to be traded/sold for gold, and both have an outcome for buyer and seller, and both are following the ToS.

If those two were gone, then the game would just have gold sold against ToS (hack, scam, botting, farming, or via game-time like always)

And if gold were gone, it'll just be something else, like resources to trade for other resources, etc.

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This assumes that a GM's job doesn't have vastly more important functions than monitoring trade/LFG.

Well, they could have 'head hunters'?

Players being rewarded for hunting down spammers, scammers, and bots.

Actually, reward people for helping Blizzard getting rid of the unwanted accounts.

[rhorle]

This assumes that a GM's job doesn't have vastly more important functions than monitoring trade/LFG.

Blizzard could create and hire just for a specific position so there does not need to be cross-training involved. Blizzard can literally print more game masters if they wanted. Of course the reality is that game masters, and many other positions, are cross trained and have multiple responsibilities.

[Crimson Spears]

So, by removal of the token, we should also remove all tradeable TCG collected items and make the TCG codes that are unclaimed, expire. That is a few thousand dollars going down the drain and a lot of angry people.


Alas, the right GM's are hard to find. Wish they would start hiring GM's running a punch-card method. Give them the basic tools but their salary is calculated on how much time they clock while being productive.

Personally I would add them into the game like they always should of been from boss drops to reputations. I don't believe they should of ever been made into items and thats me saying that while sitting on two spectral tigers,a hawk, and a bear from buy things to server transfer.

It wouldn't be a proper gm just one that can mute players who are spamming or posting in lfg its not hard to do in the slightest.

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That is what I've been trying to tell people in the thread, hence I added TCG as a connection. Both are Blizzard generated, both are made to be purchased for real money, both are made to be traded/sold for gold, and both have an outcome for buyer and seller, and both are following the ToS.

If those two were gone, then the game would just have gold sold against ToS (hack, scam, botting, farming, or via game-time like always)

And if gold were gone, it'll just be something else, like resources to trade for other resources, etc.

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Well, they could have 'head hunters'?

Players being rewarded for hunting down spammers, scammers, and bots.

Actually, reward people for helping Blizzard getting rid of the unwanted accounts.

I never got the mentality that if you can't fix a problem 100% its not worth doing at all. If you removed the token you would stop a massive amount of people buying gold with money. Yes not all of them but the grand majority will not risk their accounts.

[Lochton]

Personally I would add them into the game like they always should of been from boss drops to reputations. I don't believe they should of ever been made into items and thats me saying that while sitting on two spectral tigers,a hawk, and a bear from buy things to server transfer.

Just like the store items, the TCG items were created as ideas without a general plan of use. The designers sometimes during downtime, create things, and sometimes the higher-ups like it enough to not skip it, and add it to the store (or TCG pile as back in the day).

It wouldn't be a proper gm just one that can mute players who are spamming or posting in lfg its not hard to do in the slightest.

Wouldn't mind the ability to mute accounts, even to the point of flagging accounts for further investigation. Problem with that is still to find the people worth the investment.

[Toppy]

But if using gold is pay to win then how can they actually fight that with out removing gold?

Do what any other MMO does and get staff that actually work against it?

[Lochton]

I never got the mentality that if you can't fix a problem 100% its not worth doing at all. If you removed the token you would stop a massive amount of people buying gold with money. Yes not all of them but the grand majority will not risk their accounts.

But if we just removed the token, then it would just be exclusive P2W for the ones who hold TCG items still, as they can earn a massive amount of gold for real money too. There is no real way to stop it. The game involves the actions of humans, and thus things that break rules will appear.