Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Stardrift]

I agree, remove gear from the game. /s

I'm not saying anything needs to be removed. I'm just stating the facts.

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You spend money on the currency. What you do with the currency is not related to how you got that currency. Gold isn't a currency just created for being bought with money. Pokemongo has a currency like that where you primarily get it from buying it and are limited to 50 coins a day for free (if you defend a gym for long enough). That would be an instance of pay to win from buying the currency.

That isn't the case for wow due to how gold works.

Still paying cash for currency to buy power. Sorry

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But you arent getting the power directly from blizzard. You are getting it from people. And if they decided they dont want gold to do carries and stop then all you have is gold and no power. Not P2W /thread

...Still paying cash for currency to buy power.

Why deny this fact? I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. Nor am I saying something needs to be done about it lol

[Doffen]

At this rate, how long until I can argue that Blizzard needs to remove gold, the auction house, and gear because as long as these exist -- 'non-sponsored indirect illegal pay 2 win" will exist?

Because atm -- indirect pay to win is a brand new term and it means nothing, so it basically can mean whatever is useful in the argument?

Yes, thats the new P2W. As long as you pay something, does not need to be relevant to the content, you are paying 2 win it seems.

[rhorle]

I was very clear. I even repeated it and you still went on about not twisting my words. I said "at whatever level you consider relevant to yourself" while talking about specifically raids and PvP. Nothing else.

Which is not accurate to the definition of pay to win. It has nothing to do with what an individual finds relevant. You said I twisted your words when I claimed you defined pay to win as subjective. Which is exactly what you are calling by making the win "at whatever level you consider relevant to yourself". That isn't twisting words. Lol. It is taking the meaning you are saying and have repeated.

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Still paying cash for currency to buy power. Sorry

But not buying power with cash. A key distinction that you keep ignoring. The cash transaction is for another players gold and the effort they spent obtaining that gold. It is not for power. Gold offers no power on its own.

[Jester Joe]

Which is not accurate to the definition of pay to win. It has nothing to do with what an individual finds relevant.

Which isn't close to what I said, again.

Hence, you're twisting words. Nothing I said was about it being accurate to the definition of "P2W".

Just that it's the closest we have to "winning" in WoW.

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But not buying power with cash. A key distinction that you keep ignoring. The cash transaction is for another players gold and the effort they spent obtaining that gold. It is not for power. Gold offers no power on its own.

Just like in Pokemon Go the coins offer no power but you called that "P2W".

[rhorle]

Hence, you're twisting words. Nothing I said was about it being accurate to the definition of "P2W". Just that it's the closest we have to "winning" in WoW.

So then nothing in WoW is pay to win if nothing is accurate to the definition.

Just like in Pokemon Go the coins offer no power but you called that "P2W".

Because it is a currency designed specifically for pay to win. It is gained at a trickle for free and there are multiple amounts of coins to buy directly from the developer. Various parts of the game encourage the use of spending beyond the free offerings. It is different from gold.

[Jester Joe]

So then nothing in WoW is pay to win if nothing is accurate to the definition.

I mean, that's basically what I said a long time ago yes. That if P2W does exist in WoW, it's existed for a long time now because that would be buying boosts with gold.

Because it is a currency designed specifically for pay to win. It is gained at a trickle for free and there are multiple amounts of coins to buy directly from the developer. Various parts of the game encourage the use of spending beyond the free offerings. It is different from gold.

The only "encouragement" to spend coins is on more space. That's literally it. Any cool events you have to straight up buy anyway, like the tickets.

And more space only costs 200 coins, which is 4 days of free coins. You basically get showered in everything else.

[rhorle]

The only "encouragement" to spend coins is on more space. That's literally it. Any cool events you have to straight up buy anyway, like the tickets. And more space only costs 200 coins, which is 4 days of free coins. You basically get showered in everything else.

Incubators, raid passes, event boxes. You don't basically get showered in everything else. If that isn't pay to win then you can't also consider the token pay to win. Which just shows how unclear and subjective talks of pay to win are. Because people can't accept everything that falls under the definition and have to create exceptions and rules that change from game to game.

[Stardrift]

Which is not accurate to the definition of pay to win. It has nothing to do with what an individual finds relevant. You said I twisted your words when I claimed you defined pay to win as subjective. Which is exactly what you are calling by making the win "at whatever level you consider relevant to yourself". That isn't twisting words. Lol. It is taking the meaning you are saying and have repeated.

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But not buying power with cash. A key distinction that you keep ignoring. The cash transaction is for another players gold and the effort they spent obtaining that gold. It is not for power. Gold offers no power on its own.

No matter what, still paying for power with cash.

[Coffeh]

Paying to skip 58 levels is indeed pay2win.

But of course people can't just say they want to pay to skip content, so they feel the need to justify it with silly arguments of semantics.

[rhorle]

No matter what, still paying for power with cash.

You mean gold. Paying for the power with cash is against the terms of service and is why the Gallywix boosting community got shut down by Blizzard.

[TidalConflux]

I'm not saying anything needs to be removed. I'm just stating the facts.

What fact? By your own logic if you can pay cash for currency in the game -- the game is pay 2 win regardless of the situation. Please own up that you either want to:

A) Remove gear/achievements from the game
B) Remove in-game currency.

Because by your own definition for posts -- as long as something exists in the game that would interest real money transactions, its pay to win.

[Jester Joe]

Incubators, raid passes, event boxes. You don't basically get showered in everything else. If that isn't pay to win then you can't also consider the token pay to win. Which just shows how unclear and subjective talks of pay to win are. Because people can't accept everything that falls under the definition and have to create exceptions and rules that change from game to game.

You get a free raid pass every day.
Event boxes come with nothing unique, just items you can get anyway.
You have a permanent incubator.

also I've said from the start I don't see WoW a P2W in general. I just think the token has far more supporting argument in that regard than a boost does.

I mean, the token existing lets players buy b.net balance with gold which leads right into being able to buy a boost. So I'm genuinely confused why you think the token is fine but boosts aren't.

[rhorle]

I mean, the token existing lets players buy b.net balance with gold which leads right into being able to buy a boost. So I'm genuinely confused why you think the token is fine but boosts aren't.

I never said boosts were not fine. Don't confuse labeling something what it is with being against that something. Just because something is pay to win does not mean you have to be against it. Lol. No wonder these type of things are so subjective. It doesn't matter about the definition but the acceptance of what is being bought. There is no reason to for you to propose a situation that you don't even believe. If a level boost is not pay to win then using a gold to get balance to purchase it won't be pay to win.

That isn't even true for the what I have been saying so either way your example is silly. The token, trading gold for Balance, is not pay to win. It is a simple micro transaction. What you do with the balance or what you do with the gold has no bearing on the transaction for the gold or balance.

[Jester Joe]

I never said boosts were not fine. Don't confuse labeling something what it is with being against that something. Just because something is pay to win does not mean you have to be against it. Lol. No wonder these type of things are so subjective. It doesn't matter about the definition but the acceptance of what is being bought. There is no reason to for you to propose a situation that you don't even believe. If a level boost is not pay to win then using a gold to get balance to purchase it won't be pay to win.

That isn't even true for the what I have been saying so either way your example is silly. The token, trading gold for Balance, is not pay to win. It is a simple micro transaction. What you do with the balance or what you do with the gold has no bearing on the transaction for the gold or balance.

So you've spent countless pages arguing with almost everyone over something that you don't even have an issue with yet still feel the need to insist it's "P2W"?

On top of that, that's such a flimsy defense to say that the results of token don't affect the situation just because that's a different transaction. By your own logic, that would mean the transaction to buy coins in PoGo is irrelevant to the shop and what you get in it, because that's a separate transaction.

But really it's the same situation. You're using one currency, to obtain another, to receive a service/item.

[rhorle]

So you've spent countless pages arguing with almost everyone over something that you don't even have an issue with yet still feel the need to insist it's "P2W"?

Yes. The discussion is about pay to win not what you find acceptable or not. Why are you under the impression that pay to win is only to describe things that people are against? It seems the definition is not as clear as you claimed early today. Weird right?

The coins in PokemonGo are purchase directly from Niantic. Created by Niantic. The entire purpose is to encourage people to spend real life money on the cash shop. To buy advantages in game like more raid passes, incense, incubators, remote raid passes, community boxes, poke balls, etc. It fits every definition you and others keep trying to push for pay to win. They are a different system then tokens. It is a transaction between players. It create no gold. It requires player generated acts in order to be a win.

It is a microtransaction. Pokecoins are a mictransaction as well but one with direct links to pay to win. Tokens are indirect and is not a system specifically set up to enable those wins.

[Jester Joe]

Yes. The discussion is about pay to win not what you find acceptable or not. Why are you under the impression that pay to win is only to describe things that people are against? It seems the definition is not as clear as you claimed early today. Weird right?

Don't confuse being baffled by your actions as the term being anything but clear.

It still is extremely clear, just because your enjoyment of this thread is confusing doesn't mean the definition is vague. I mean, not like you claiming that made any sense to begin with, it's just some odd wrap around back to the term.

[rhorle]

Don't confuse being baffled by your actions as the term being anything but clear. It still is extremely clear, just because your enjoyment of this thread is confusing doesn't mean the definition is vague. I mean, not like you claiming that made any sense to begin with, it's just some odd wrap around back to the term.

I am not confused. You are equating being fine with something as impossible to call it pay to win. I am not against pay to win. There are varying degrees of it. Selling Mythic raid gear? I'm against. Selling level boosts when it isn't even to max level? I'm fine with.

The definition is not extremely clear because you keep offering subjective exceptions whether implicit or explicit. Just look how you have to include insults about how much sense I am making. The only one acting oddly here is you and the others that modify your perception of pay to win based on what you find acceptable or not. Or other subjective things.

[MrFawlty]

tokens did not create inflation... the dont MAKE gold, they only move it around, which was happening before token anyway...

garrisons created huge inflation, bcs people could MAKE tons of gold out of nothing, for few minutes of time instead of hours of farming,

No, tokens cause inflation. They take gold from people that dont need it and gives it to people that do who then spend it. Simple economics.

[Lochton]

No, tokens cause inflation. They take gold from people that dont need it and gives it to people that do who then spend it. Simple economics.

But they take gold because you made a trade, gold for game-time. The gold is not magically added or removed, calling it inflation is like calling trade inflation.

[rhorle]

But they take gold because you made a trade, gold for game-time. The gold is not magically added or removed, calling it inflation is like calling trade inflation.

To be fair wealth redistribution can impact inflation but I don't think we have really seen such effects with the token. Prices of things seem to be impacted more on game design rather then token.