[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Shakzor]

Companies have spent 300 million plus for games like cyberpunk and RDR2 and only took slightly less time to develop, and they both were not smooth launches and have taken a fair bit extra time to actually get working right. They have not been handed 300 million, CiG has raised that money steadily over a very long period of time and money alone cant develop a game.

No they haven't taken that amount of money. Infos and estimates taken from here (wikipedia).
Cyberpunk was ~170million on actual development and ~140 million on marketing. So it had very roughly half the dev costs AND it released within a smaller timeframe.
Final Fantasy 7 (at the time) was 40-45million dev costs and 40-100 million in marketing and wouldn't even come close with inflation. GTA 5 was 137 million for development and an estimated (it was never made public) 69-109 million.
The ONLY AAA game that wasn't 100 million below SC's 300 million is Star Wars Old Republic with a total of 200 million in development and unknown amount for marketing (but given it's Star Wars, i'd expect atleast the same amount if not more).
There are a total of 2 confirmed (Cyberpunk and CoD MW2) and 1 highly likely (SW TOR) games that exceed the 300 million in total costs, but that is due to marketing. When it comes to actual development cost, no other game had that amount of money to waste on the game itself with SW TOR with ~200 million, so a whooping 100 million less and it was a newly made mmo that actually released. Red Dead Redemption 2 has an estimated 175 million in total

Also fucking again, the time games like Cyberpunk or RDR2 took are EXCEPTIONS. These are NOT standard development times and actually made it in less than 11 years from scratch to release. Even games like FF 14 or 15 started development, ran into trouble, got rid of their producer and completely started again from scratch in less time.

[Kyanion]

Companies have spent 300 million plus for games like cyberpunk and RDR2 and only took slightly less time to develop

Okay when will SC be out? After 11 years? 14? When? How much more money? SC is going to blow past those games

[Vakna]

Bi-Annual scheduled post to ask if this game has a release date yet?

[kenn9530]

snip

If you spend whatever on marketing a game in development that is included in the cost to make the game, SWTOR was just a copy of what games has been done in the past and backed by a fully established studio and it had plenty of flaws while it was overall a decent game but nothing really amazing.

SC is not a copy of any game done in the past, its completely new and no game has done anything to the level star citizen is creating so far, its larger than all games previously developed so its obvious its going to take longer to develop.

CiG are not going to run out of funding for the next few years, they have brought in a ton of funding in the past 2 years far greater than previous years, there is also a game to play, so the mention of vaporware is the pure intention of just trolling, current alpha may have its flaws but its still better than most other similar space games currently.

SC will be ready when its ready, we will just have to wait, there is plenty other games to play in the mean time.

No they haven't taken that amount of money. Infos and estimates taken from here (wikipedia).
Cyberpunk was ~170million on actual development and ~140 million on marketing. So it had very roughly half the dev costs AND it released within a smaller timeframe.
Final Fantasy 7 (at the time) was 40-45million dev costs and 40-100 million in marketing and wouldn't even come close with inflation. GTA 5 was 137 million for development and an estimated (it was never made public) 69-109 million.
The ONLY AAA game that wasn't 100 million below SC's 300 million is Star Wars Old Republic with a total of 200 million in development and unknown amount for marketing (but given it's Star Wars, i'd expect atleast the same amount if not more).
There are a total of 2 confirmed (Cyberpunk and CoD MW2) and 1 highly likely (SW TOR) games that exceed the 300 million in total costs, but that is due to marketing. When it comes to actual development cost, no other game had that amount of money to waste on the game itself with SW TOR with ~200 million, so a whooping 100 million less and it was a newly made mmo that actually released. Red Dead Redemption 2 has an estimated 175 million in total

Also fucking again, the time games like Cyberpunk or RDR2 took are EXCEPTIONS. These are NOT standard development times and actually made it in less than 11 years from scratch to release. Even games like FF 14 or 15 started development, ran into trouble, got rid of their producer and completely started again from scratch in less time.

You do realise the money raised is not the amount spent on developing star citizen dont you, the only time we might know is after its actual release, also we are getting 2 games so you can split that cost in 2 since its 2 seperate games for star citizen and squadron 42.

Cyberpunk and RDR2 didnt get built from nothing, they had work from all the games the company has done before for use in the development of those games, SC is the largest scale MMO to ever be created, FF14 and WoW are just single player RPGs in comparrison.

[Edge-]

If you spend whatever on marketing a game in development that is included in the cost to make the game

No it doesn't. You need to stop making shit up, because that's not how those costs are reflected in budgets or handled internally at all.

[kenn9530]

No it doesn't. You need to stop making shit up, because that's not how those costs are reflected in budgets or handled internally at all.

Im not making anything up, im saying what it cost in total to make the game and that includes marketing, if a company spends 200 million just on marketing that cost is tied into the game. The company is still spending money for that game so all costs are attached to it. Its the companies choice to spend money on marketing.

Its just simple math, if it costs a company 100 million to develop a game but they also spend 200 million on marketing, then that game cost 300 million to make.

[Edge-]

Im not making anything up, im saying what it cost in total to make the game and that includes marketing, if a company spends 200 million just on marketing that cost is tied into the game. The company is still spending money for that game so all costs are attached to it. Its the companies choice to spend money on marketing.

Its just simple math, if it costs a company 100 million to develop a game but they also spend 200 million on marketing, then that game cost 300 million to make.

You are, marketing costs are separate from development costs. The two are often combined into total costs, but development and marketing are different buckets. You tried to mix the two, they don't mix.

[Katchii]

Im not making anything up, im saying what it cost in total to make the game and that includes marketing, if a company spends 200 million just on marketing that cost is tied into the game. The company is still spending money for that game so all costs are attached to it. Its the companies choice to spend money on marketing.

Its just simple math, if it costs a company 100 million to develop a game but they also spend 200 million on marketing, then that game cost 300 million to make.

No, it cost $100 million to make and $200 million to market. Total spent is $300 million. true, but that doesn't translate to $300 million to make.

[Henako]

Im not making anything up, im saying what it cost in total to make the game and that includes marketing, if a company spends 200 million just on marketing that cost is tied into the game. The company is still spending money for that game so all costs are attached to it. Its the companies choice to spend money on marketing.

Its just simple math, if it costs a company 100 million to develop a game but they also spend 200 million on marketing, then that game cost 300 million to make.

You are wrong. You are the only person that thinks this. You are arguing with someone in this line of work and telling them that they are wrong, lol.

[Vakir]

Waste of time to argue. Psychologically, people who have been duped the hardest in a con are the most likely to continue trusting it and have the strongest personal investment in it being true against all evidence.

[kenn9530]

You are, marketing costs are separate from development costs. The two are often combined into total costs, but development and marketing are different buckets. You tried to mix the two, they don't mix.

Doesnt matter what was spent on what, what matters is what was spent on that game and that includes development and marketing costs, currently we dont have any idea of the development costs of star citizen because what is raised is not the actual cost of development and they might share that information after its release.

[Triceron]

If you spend whatever on marketing a game in development that is included in the cost to make the game

Again, bullshit, and you don't know what you're talking about.

Marketing budget is NOT part of the cost to 'make the game'. Development alone covers everything that entails 'making the game', Marketing is separate from that completely and that's why it's listed in its own category. You can say it is the total cost of the game, but marketing budget has nothing to do with *making* the game.

we dont have any idea of the development costs of star citizen because what is raised is not the actual cost of development and they might share that information after its release.

That figure is cited by wikipedia as being $275+ million, based on a 2019 financial report

https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/...cials-for-2019


And that is built on publicly released information we know of

From Wikipedia:
Due to United Kingdom law surrounding the purchase, Cloud Imperium Games released financials for parts of the company. The documents revealed that in 5 years of development, from 2012 to 2017, the company had spent US$193 million and reserved $14 million.

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news...ng-1203093928/


It's not like we have zero idea of how much it's cost. Even if it's not completely up to date, we have information on how much they've spent, on how much they spent per month in certain years, and the ongoing trends with 'full development' through financial reports in 2019. We KNOW that they're not spending half of their budget on Marketting. Marketting has been clearly denoted as being a very small portion of their overall costs.


What exactly are you basing your information on if you seemingly have done none of the actual research into how much it's actually cost?

[Edge-]

Doesnt matter what was spent on what

It does, and I'm sorry that's horribly inconvenient for your argument. Don't blame reality, blame your bad argument where you make stuff up to fit it.

what matters is what was spent on that game and that includes development and marketing costs, currently we dont have any idea of the development costs of star citizen because what is raised is not the actual cost of development and they might share that information after its release.

We don't have an exact breakdown, no. But that is irrelevant, since we can be fairly safe in knowing that they're not blowing half their funding on marketing.

If you don't want people to call out your made up, incorrect nonsense, don't make stuff up.

[Kyanion]

SWTOR was just a copy of what games has been done in the past and backed by a fully established studio and it had plenty of flaws while it was overall a decent game but nothing really amazing.

I think you're moving goalposts again, kenn.

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SC will be ready when its ready, we will just have to wait, there is plenty other games to play in the mean time.

Sure if you say so, ready in how many more years? What is the total end numbers going to look like, 15 years and 700 million dollars?

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also we are getting 2 games so you can split that cost in 2 since its 2 seperate games for star citizen and squadron 42.

That doesn't work either. Because it would then be something like.

SC is not a copy of any game done in the past

Would SC not then be a copy of a game that is done? You don't just to decide oh cut the costs in half, that isn't how that shit works.

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SC is the largest scale MMO to ever be created, FF14 and WoW are just single player RPGs in comparrison.

Based on what is in SC right now? You fucking wish.

FF14 and WoW can also have more than 50 people on in the server, bruh.

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Doesnt matter what was spent on what, what matters is what was spent on that game and that includes development and marketing costs

It does matter. What matters is the cost to develop the game. SC is breaking some records and not in good ways.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

SC is the largest scale MMO to ever be created, FF14 and WoW are just single player RPGs in comparrison.

This is WoW. This isn't even all of the players on the server. These screenshots show you a small fraction of the total number gathered here. There are many more people to the left, right, or behind the camera, and more people on the way to this gathering. There is Horde group down the road at least just as big, as well as many hundreds and hundreds of other players scattered across the world, and thousands of people on the same server at the same time.







This is Star Citizen. This is all of the players on the server gathered together in this spot: 50 people. There is no one else in the system.

[notaltacc]

we are getting 2 games so you can split that cost in 2 since its 2 seperate games for star citizen and squadron 42.

The two games are the same using pretty much sharing all of the same assets, its basically the same as what GTA 5 done where you get to follow the story mode or at some point can just jump into the multiplayer. Creating a story campaign is still a fair bit of work but they are not two completely seperate games and many of the story mode missions can be adapted for the PU.

… and there you go again, changing shit up as you go, it’s all a matter of convenience, isn’t it?

You don’t even know your own stance about this fucking project anymore, do you? You’ll just argue against whatever the “haters” say for the sake of it, whatever it may be, with whatever sounds convenient at the time, meanwhile it’s they who just say bullshit, not you, fucking A.

[MrAnderson]

It’s pretty clear that you don’t care about any of that anyway.

That's right, star citizen backers don't actually care about the opinion of random joes without not real interest about their game.
Still, it's amusing to poke the holes in their pie in the sky theories and expose how little knowledge they have despite acting all wise and know it all.

By now, it's clear as day who are the ones who care about the game to those only in it for the drama. They probably wont ever have the hardware to even run it or the patience to learn the basic key-binds to learn how to fly. For them it's just an escape for whatever frustrations they have with themselves. A way to vent by hanging on drama.

Which is why they are easily target and manipulated by clickbait headlines and articles. They eat up all the blatant mix of misinformation hyperbole and half-truths and come out swinging thinking they know better. Which is when reality and facts kick in. Then they go dormant again until a later surge of pointless drama comes up.

I suppose I could, for the 100000th time bring out factual data and information about the project and it's finances that could help shed some light into the project, crowdfunding and game development in general.

Financials, easy as peasy concept.

Money goes In(pledges)
Money goes Out(Building/Maintaining/Growing company, Marketing, Running servers, Opening studios, Hiring Developers, Paying salaries, Buying Hardware, Tools Licenses, R&D etc)

Money IN along the years:

Money OUT along the years:


Source: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/...cials-for-2019

This misconception that CIG has a hidden stash of gold that keeps getting bigger and bigger should be dead long time ago. If only "gaming journalists" would still do some investigation they would understand that as CIG got more pledges they invested in their company and in making the games the best they can be. Quality is top priority above time/financial and even reputation gains.
~~
The variation in "Start of Development" is just a case of different perspectives and understanding levels of the project.

The early backers who've been following the game from the early stages know that there were several resets along the way as the funding/company/tech grew and evolved so did the game and it's complexity.

The TLDR: In late 2014»2015 CIG abandoned the instanced vision of small maps connected by instancing to accommodate full procedural planets and seamless planetary landings which forced them to abandon a lot of prior work and start all over to accommodate the new vision.

From 2014 to 2015 CIG managed to hire a big chunk of veteran CryTek/Cryengine devs. Crytek missed payments so they joined CIG who opened a studio in Frankfurt for them. Among those dev's was the main cry-engine developer which add done advanced work on planetary procedural generation tech for cryengine on the side.

When he became part of CIG that tech became available to CIG, it was so promising they abandoned the older scope (space and ground separated by instancing- small planetary locations instead of full blown planets and cities) and went back to the drawing board to accommodate such an increase of scope and the inevitable change of design for the rest of the year. By October they showed it citizencon 2015 and later released it to backers in December. That's the Star Citizen Online Universe main build which they've build and iterated upon.

[Kyanion]

By now, it's clear as day who are the ones who care about the game to those only in it for the drama. They probably wont ever have the hardware to even run it or the patience to learn the basic key-binds to learn how to fly. For them it's just an escape for whatever frustrations they have with themselves. A way to vent by hanging on drama.

Damn dude, do you have to make assumptions and attacks with every post you make? By the time this game fucking comes out computers will have leaped ahead another generation. And oh noes this game is gonna be SO COMPLEX, I'm scared, hold me! Like give me a fucking break dude. You think there won't be guides if this game is ever worthy of playing by the masses? Yeah right.

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Which is when reality and facts kick in. Then they go dormant again until a later surge of pointless drama comes up.

Or until another X months passes with the game still in Alpha, whichever happens first I guess.

[kenn9530]

It does, and I'm sorry that's horribly inconvenient for your argument. Don't blame reality, blame your bad argument where you make stuff up to fit it.



We don't have an exact breakdown, no. But that is irrelevant, since we can be fairly safe in knowing that they're not blowing half their funding on marketing.

If you don't want people to call out your made up, incorrect nonsense, don't make stuff up.

Im not making anything up, its just reality, the true cost of the game includes all that is spent on marketing and development, i was always talking about the complete cost of a game.

[Edge-]

Im not making anything up, its just reality

It's not, no matter how many times you repeat this. Considering I work directly with these marketing budgets sometimes, they're not factored into actual development costs. They're factored into total costs, but development and marketing costs are separate despite your insistence they're not.

i was always talking about the complete cost of a game.

If you spend whatever on marketing a game in development that is included in the cost to make the game

No, you didn't, because marketing budgets aren't related to "making" the game. Again, they're a part of the total costs to ship the product, but not costs to make it.

We can keep doing this, or you can admit that you were wrong and move on. It's alright to be wrong, we're all wrong sometimes.