Are Evokers getting a new spec?

[Ielenia]

People ignored the cat pack because nothing cat-based leads directly to a possible expansion, whereas multiple major WoW characters are dragons. Also it seemed more like Blizzard was trying to use the cat pack to make the dragon pack look less obvious.

And therein lies the issue: you've ignored all packs until one comes along that fits your pre-conceived notions, i.e., "dragon expansion next". You're literally starting with the conclusion and looking for evidence to confirm it while ignoring what doesn't.

That's cherry-picking. That's a fallacy.

It’s on the Aberrus PTR in the 10.1 patch notes.

I don't see it. And I'm not going further than the second page of MMO-Champion's front page news to look for evidence for your claims.

Which makes sense because we don’t know Sakareth’s drops yet. However, Ion did say that Evokers will be interested in what Sakareth has to offer the class at the end of the raid.

We don't know what any of the bosses drop yet, but that didn't stop Blizzard from saying we're getting a glyph for demon hunters.

[Lochton]

Unsure if shared in here, but MrGM added some screenshots.

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1639255486817005568

[kenn9530]

How exactly is lore stating that Dracthyr are drained of their black dragon essence irrelevant to the Dracthyr Evoker class? You do know that this lore is so relevant to the class that they created an Evoker only quest chain for it, right?



If Evokers have more than enough black dragon abilities, why is their lore stating that they’re currently drained of Black dragon essence and are arguably “crippled”? Again, this is Blizzard saying this, and it contradicts your opinion.

They are not drained of black essence though, they still have it otherwise they wouldnt be able to use it in the first place, blizzard often makes lore that contradicts itself, and you cant prove the player dracthyr has been drained of anything, experimenting on some is not the same as doing it to every single one. So you are contradicting yourself since you dont actually know about the class itself.

Lore is simply irrelevant when it comes to the player class because it has nothing to do with lore.

[Teriz]

They are not drained of black essence though, they still have it otherwise they wouldnt be able to use it in the first place, blizzard often makes lore that contradicts itself, and you cant prove the player dracthyr has been drained of anything, experimenting on some is not the same as doing it to every single one. So you are contradicting yourself since you dont actually know about the class itself.

You’re confusing “drained” with “drained completely”. The evidence of them being drained of their black dragon essence is in the lore and expressed in the fact that they have far less black dragon abilities than red, blue, bronze, and green abilities. Also there’s no black dragon centric spec, whereas preservation is green/bronze specific, and devastation is red/blue specific. Further, the Weryn presumably represented by the black Dragonflight is wiped out, with only Emberthal remaining.

Lore is simply irrelevant when it comes to the player class because it has nothing to do with lore.

Except the player class is effected by said lore via lack of abilities, and a class-specific quest chain dealing with this lore.

[Makorus]

They are not drained of black essence though, they still have it otherwise they wouldnt be able to use it in the first place, blizzard often makes lore that contradicts itself, and you cant prove the player dracthyr has been drained of anything, experimenting on some is not the same as doing it to every single one. So you are contradicting yourself since you dont actually know about the class itself.

Lore is simply irrelevant when it comes to the player class because it has nothing to do with lore.

You have got to be trolling lol.

The extraction of black dragonflight essence from the dracthyr has gone smoothly, though I worry it may permanently cripple their abilities.

What do you think "extraction" means?

[kenn9530]

You have got to be trolling lol.





What do you think "extraction" means?

Its pretty simple logic, can they use all thier powers, the answer is yes, they have not lost any ability to use powers from all 5 dragonflights so they have not lost thier essence, and you cant prove the player dracthyr has been drained in any way.

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You’re confusing “drained” with “drained completely”. The evidence of them being drained of their black dragon essence is in the lore and expressed in the fact that they have far less black dragon abilities than red, blue, bronze, and green abilities. Also there’s no black dragon centric spec, whereas preservation is green/bronze specific, and devastation is red/blue specific. Further, the Weryn presumably represented by the black Dragonflight is wiped out, with only Emberthal remaining.



Except the player class is effected by said lore via lack of abilities, and a class-specific quest chain dealing with this lore.

The dont have far less black dragon abilities than others and there is no spec that revolves around one single set of powers, all evoker specs will use all 5 powers, the player class is not effected by lore because ingame lore is not canon when it comes to the player, they dont exist when it comes to lore.

The evoker is not lacking any abilities at all, your opinion is not fact. No new spells/abilities are required let alone a 3rd spec, its completely up to blizz to make that decision and its unlikely to happen part way through an expansion.

[Calfredd]

The evoker is not lacking any abilities at all, your opinion is not fact.

It's really funny and ironic that you two, people who constantly speak as though your opinions are fact, are calling each other out like this.

[Teriz]

The dont have far less black dragon abilities than others

Uh you can simply count the abilities. There are a little over a dozen Black Dragon abilities, talents, and associated talents in either spec. The next closest is Red, and it has over 30 abilities, talents, and associated talents. Blue, Green, and Bronze have even more. I don't know a reality where a little over a dozen is on parity with over 30 and above.

and there is no spec that revolves around one single set of powers, all evoker specs will use all 5 powers

Don't take it from me, take it from Blizzard themselves via the World of Warcraft website;

Specializations
Devastation Evokers use the power of the red and blue dragonflights to do devastating damage to their foes, while Preservation Evokers use the power of the green and bronze dragonflights to heal their allies in battle.

Devastation
Releases innate power as chaotic Red flames or focused Blue magic to bathe the battlefield in destruction. Preferred Weapon: Staff, Sword, Dagger, Mace

Preservation
Calls upon the Emerald Dream to rejuvenate life, and the Bronze sands of time to prevent harm. Preferred Weapon: Staff, Sword, Dagger, Mace

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Where's Black?

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Unsure if shared in here, but MrGM added some screenshots.

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1639255486817005568

Yeah those were shared earlier. The appear to be mostly NPC abilities save for Emerald Infusion. However, I could see Azure Prowess end up as a class ability, since it seems to be the Evoker version of Power Infusion. The only thing it's missing is a cooldown.

[kenn9530]

Uh you can simply count the abilities. There are a little over a dozen Black Dragon abilities, talents, and associated talents in either spec. The next closest is Red, and it has over 30 abilities, talents, and associated talents. Blue, Green, and Bronze have even more. I don't know a reality where a little over a dozen is on parity with over 30 and above.




Don't take it from me, take it from Blizzard themselves via the World of Warcraft website;







https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Where's Black?

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Yeah those were shared earlier. The appear to be mostly NPC abilities save for Emerald Infusion. However, I could see Azure Prowess end up as a class ability, since it seems to be the Evoker version of Power Infusion. The only thing it's missing is a cooldown.

What are you even talking about, its very clear you know nothing about the class or its abilities if you think red has over 30 abilities, each dragonflight power is usually between 4 and 8 abilities, with bronze having the most since it has healing, rezs and buffs, evoker is also not missing a cd it has dragonrage which makes all your abilities do max damage from mastery, again you have proven your lack of knowledge with the class.

If you had ever played the class you know well they use all 5 dragonflight powers, you have proven to be wrong time and time again about the class.

[Teriz]

What are you even talking about, its very clear you know nothing about the class or its abilities if you think red has over 30 abilities, each dragonflight power is usually between 4 and 8 abilities, with bronze having the most since it has healing, rezs and buffs, evoker is also not missing a cd it has dragonrage which makes all your abilities do max damage from mastery, again you have proven your lack of knowledge with the class.

Try again. I said abilities, talents, and associated talents. In other words, Deep Breath is an ability, Landslide is a talent, and Onyx Legacy is an associated talent.

If you had ever played the class you know well they use all 5 dragonflight powers,

You’re playing semantics here. If you’re doing dozens of Blue, Red, Bronze, and Emerald spells, and then you use one black spell, you’ve used all 5 Dragonflight powers. That’s not the point. The point is that you should be using black spells as often as the other spells. You don’t, because no spec focuses on the powers of the black Dragonflight.

you have proven to be wrong time and time again about the class.

So Blizzard’s description of the specialization they designed is wrong?

[Ielenia]

@Teriz, I'm still waiting for you to address my rebuttal to your arguments, here.

I'm still waiting for that specific Sarkareth ability you mentioned.

[Teriz]

@Teriz, I'm still waiting for you to address my rebuttal to your arguments, here.

What’s left to talk about? You don’t believe it was a hint to Dragonflight, and you ignore all the evidence to the contrary. It’s a non-issue anyway, because the entire point that was brought up was to show that Blizzard developers hint at future content regularly, and you agreed that they did, just not with the idea that the Dragon Pack was such an example.

I'm still waiting for that specific Sarkareth ability you mentioned.

https://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/404403-desolate-blossom

Void Blossom FX appears to be a glyph based on that ability.

[Ielenia]

What’s left to talk about? You don’t believe it was a hint to Dragonflight, and you ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

If there's anyone ignoring anything here, it's you. Because every time you put forth that same "evidence", I explained to you why it's not valid: it's cherry-picking, it's being right (dragon expansion next) for the wrong reasons (because dragon pack), etc. And that is what I'm trying to explain to you.

https://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/404403-desolate-blossom

Void Blossom FX appears to be a glyph based on that ability.

Hmm, perhaps. It's possible. However, it's also possible that the FX is what is going to be used for that particular ability. Remember: Blizzard has mentioned that demon hunters are getting a new glyph for 10.1. Why would they keep the evoker's glyph secret, especially when the class desperately needs glyphs for customization considering it has absolutely none?

[draugril]

Why would they keep the evoker's glyph secret, especially when the class desperately needs glyphs for customization considering it has absolutely none?

If it’s Void-based, that would raise a lot of questions and potentially spoil the story of the patch. I don’t buy into the third spec thing, but the answer to this seemed pretty obvious.

[Teriz]

If there's anyone ignoring anything here, it's you. Because every time you put forth that same "evidence", I explained to you why it's not valid: it's cherry-picking, it's being right (dragon expansion next) for the wrong reasons (because dragon pack), etc. And that is what I'm trying to explain to you.

And regardless this is a side issue that has nothing to do with the point: Blizzard drops hints of future content on a regular basis.

Hmm, perhaps. It's possible. However, it's also possible that the FX is what is going to be used for that particular ability. Remember: Blizzard has mentioned that demon hunters are getting a new glyph for 10.1. Why would they keep the evoker's glyph secret, especially when the class desperately needs glyphs for customization considering it has absolutely none?

Who says they're keeping it secret? We're still far from 10.1's release, and there's still plenty of testing to go.

What's interesting here is that void-based glyphs (and Ion's statements about there being no major customization options coming in 10.1) weakens the notion that the Evoker specialization quest is going to end in some cosmetic thing like the green fire quest. It also kills the notion of the possible 3rd spec having void influence.

I have a feeling that Void Blossom is going to be one of a few void-based glyps heading for the Evoker class. I'm willing to bet Abyssal Breath is going to be another one.

As for the possible Evoker 3rd spec, I believe it shifts back to Black/Prismatic, or Black/Storm. Emerald Infusion and Azure Prowess has me leaning heavily towards the former.

[kenn9530]

Try again. I said abilities, talents, and associated talents. In other words, Deep Breath is an ability, Landslide is a talent, and Onyx Legacy is an associated talent.



You’re playing semantics here. If you’re doing dozens of Blue, Red, Bronze, and Emerald spells, and then you use one black spell, you’ve used all 5 Dragonflight powers. That’s not the point. The point is that you should be using black spells as often as the other spells. You don’t, because no spec focuses on the powers of the black Dragonflight.



So Blizzard’s description of the specialization they designed is wrong?

The only things that matter are abilities you can use and if it says the color, all other talents are universal to the spec so no red doesnt have 30 skills.

It doesnt matter how many times you use an ability all that matters is that you have the option to use the other powers, its irrelevant that you dont have a black spell to use ever other second, thats not a requirement of the class.

The class itself uses all powers of all 5 dragonflights regardless of the spec, blizzard have not said otherwise have they, and a general description does nothing for your argument, you have proven you know nothing about the class, if you had played it you knew you would be wrong.

[Teriz]

The only things that matter are abilities you can use and if it says the color, all other talents are universal to the spec so no red doesnt have 30 skills.

If a talent enhances the properties of Living Flame, a red spell, how is that not an associated talent of Red magic?

It doesnt matter how many times you use an ability all that matters is that you have the option to use the other powers, its irrelevant that you dont have a black spell to use ever other second, thats not a requirement of the class.

What if you want to emulate a Black dragon the way you can emulate a Red, Green, Blue, or Bronze dragon? You don't have that option because no spec focuses on black the way it does for the other aspects. That's a problem. Using Deep Breath every 2 minutes doesn't help that either.

The class itself uses all powers of all 5 dragonflights regardless of the spec, blizzard have not said otherwise....

Specializations
Devastation Evokers use the power of the red and blue dragonflights to do devastating damage to their foes, while Preservation Evokers use the power of the green and bronze dragonflights to heal their allies in battle.

Devastation
Releases innate power as chaotic Red flames or focused Blue magic to bathe the battlefield in destruction. Preferred Weapon: Staff, Sword, Dagger, Mace

Preservation
Calls upon the Emerald Dream to rejuvenate life, and the Bronze sands of time to prevent harm. Preferred Weapon: Staff, Sword, Dagger, Mace

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Again, Black is so underrepresented in the class that Blizzard doesn't even mention it in the class/specialization descriptions.

That's Blizzard saying otherwise.

[kenn9530]

If a talent enhances the properties of Living Flame, a red spell, how is that not an associated talent of Red magic?



What if you want to emulate a Black dragon the way you can emulate a Red, Green, Blue, or Bronze dragon? You don't have that option because no spec focuses on black the way it does for the other aspects. That's a problem. Using Deep Breath every 2 minutes doesn't help that either.







https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Again, Black is so underrepresented in the class that Blizzard doesn't even mention it in the class/specialization descriptions.

That's Blizzard saying otherwise.

Its a talent designed for gameplay purposes only, all that matters is actual abilities/spells you can use, the evoker uses powers from all 5 dragonflights, it is not required to have powers from all in a rotation, this is what blizz have decided to do, they made a class that uses all 5 dragonflights and have made thier decision on gameplay.

There doesnt need to be a black spec for it to be represented, it is already represented and you dont get to choose if you want to emulate a black dragon, its blizz who designs the class, making a rotation from 5 different aspects would be a nightmare and have way too many abilities, you dont have any idea of what makes good gameplay for a class.

There is no black spec so they dont need to mention it, the class using black dragon powers and they are fairly strong and used all the time, blizz are not telling you not to use all the spells available, the descriptions does nothing for your arguments. Why are you not moaning about no bronze damage spells, they are all buffs and utility or healing, a class can only have so many abilities.

If blizz want to add another spec they would of said so by now, so its not coming soon or this expansion, if they want to add new spells they will but that will be in another expansion also, having a rotation leaning towards other aspects doesnt mean the others are underrepresented, you dont play evoker so you dont have a clue about the class.

[Teriz]

Its a talent designed for gameplay purposes only, all that matters is actual abilities/spells you can use.

Your opinion.

the evoker uses powers from all 5 dragonflights, it is not required to have powers from all in a rotation,

This is another opinion. Some players would like to see more Black abilities in the class.

There doesnt need to be a black spec for it to be represented, it is already represented and you dont get to choose if you want to emulate a black dragon, its blizz who designs the class, making a rotation from 5 different aspects would be a nightmare and have way too many abilities, you dont have any idea of what makes good gameplay for a class.

And yet we have another opinion. Also I find this line of argumentation amusing in a thread where there's evidence that Blizzard is possibly creating a black dragon-based spec.

Tahere is no black spec so they dont need to mention it, the class using black dragon powers and they are fairly strong and used all the time, blizz are not tellingu not to use all the spells available, the descriptions does nothing for your arguments. Why are you not moaning about no bronze damage spells, they are all buffs and utility or healing, a class can only have so many abilities.

Because Bronze is utilized for support in this class and Blizzard actually mentions its purpose as co-power in the Preservation spec. There's also a ton of Bronze abilities throughout the class. It would be nice if we had more black abilities since it was a black dragon that created the class in the first place.

If blizz want to add another spec they would of said so by now,

They pretty much did;

“This class is initially only going to have two specializations, there’s certainly room in the future to add a third, but for now range dps and healer is where we’re focused.”

-Ion-Hazzikostas

http://wowhead.com/news/ion-hazzikos...326855?webhook

Gee, I wonder why they think there's room for a third spec.......

so its not coming soon or this expansion,

And you're basing that on what exactly?

having a rotation leaning towards other aspects doesnt mean the others are underrepresented

And yet we have another opinion from you.

Some facts would be a nice change of pace.

[kenn9530]

snip

Not opinions simple facts, it is not an opinion that all evokers currently make use of all 5 dragonflight powers its a simple fact, its a fact that blizzard have made the class the way they are and they have yet to announce a 3rd spec or even new abilities.

If another spec was coming it would be announced already so its not coming now or next raid tier and very unlikely to come at all within the whole expansion, thats just reality.

All im stating is simple facts, you dont have a clue about how the actual class plays so you dont know any facts yourself.