Why do people call BfA - Legion 2.0? It's no where close

[TheRevenantHero]

They just mean design wise. BFA is pretty much just more of Legion, minus content. God, minus so, so, so much content.

Except if you look at what's in BfA compared to Legion, Legion actually had LESS content. Just because you don't want to participate in the content doesn't mean it's not there.

[msdos]

Legion wins on story and characters alone.

BFA is like a goofy cartoon catastrophe with cameo characters thinking they're somebody now, it's like all the Has Beens haven't died off yet and are having their last Grown Ups hurrah: the expansion.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

BFA is just WOD's better looking sibling. Doesn't beat the fact that they're both ugly as shit.

[seleri]

I agree. BfA has been superior to Legion in almost every way. If anything it's MoP 2.0.

[Sithalos]

More like Legion 0.5

[M1r4g3]

Legion is just the middle child that seeks attention in the form of forced ap grinds and rng legendaries.
Decent classes + no content = WoD
Meh classes + some content = Legion
Shit classes + a bunch of content = BFA
All 3 are equally.

[GreenJesus]

The correct term is Legion 0.5 because 2.0 assumes it's improved.

- - - Updated - - -

This is not complicated.

People might say it's Legion 2.0 because most of the systems are derived with less modification than usual from Legion. They aren't saying that it's as good as or anything like that. WoW developers saw that Legion was pretty successful so they didn't change a lot. Unfortunately the stuff they did change hasn't worked out well.

The things they did change didn't need changing. See: removing master loot, putting GCD on abilities, removing artifact traits/abilities. And making Aura of Sacrifice not a healing cooldown anymore but instead a worse and gimicky devo aura.

[Loeve]

You are wrong. BFA is Legion 3.0. And your list is wrong also.

[Alkizon]

I don’t want to ridicule your "ranking", because all this has already been discussed many times, and it’s not clear what relation it has to this message and thread title as a whole.

13. Some thoughts about "best expansions"(the worst one, also WoD&MoP&Cata&WotLK) +(+/+/+)+/+/+/+

Let's look a little on your "great things":

- Class Halls were AMAZING, and sad to see them leave
- Class Hall specific quests, were great story's and fun to work on
- Artifact weapon appearances, and the quests to unlock new ones, and find hidden appearances
- Mage Tower
- Artifact Weapon was pretty cool idea, yeah it needed to be tweaked and revised better, but it was a fresh idea, way better than a fucking necklace
- Tier gear still ten billion times better than Azerite garbage
- Classic Raids like Nighthold, ToS
- Introduction of M+ dungeons
- Dalaran one main Faction shared city, and easy and quick to get around. These two overly large complex mazes of cities in BfA blow balls.
- Class specific mounts to work on getting
- Zones all in one main continent, not split up needing to take a boat and port a long ways to get to another zone.
- Classes, back when they good before BfA broke them

- Class Halls bla bla specific quests bla bla mounts bla bla Artifact+appearances quests
There is nothing "AMAZING" here. Since I'm too lazy today to write related stuff (you listed here too much pseudo great things, over which I can mock decently, although I'll try to hold back), I'll just copy past part of what friend did put on EU.forum:

You aren't see forest behind the trees.
================================
A small general digression:
================================
The most terrible damage caused by Pandaria isn't only trees removal (cata already much damaged them), but also removal of common 3-weapons-system (distance/bonus + melee(1h,oh/2h)/bonus) - this is exactly the moment when WoW's universal (equable for all classes) equip system began to collapse. Artifact was to become paragon system (pass of Titans) - universal second tree for entire class, and not one of specializations (in extreme cases (but shouldn't) take place a slot with 'bonus' role). Beginning of work on it supposed to be during the first visit of classhall, but not Legion's garrison at 100+ levels, rather real one, which would supervise characters starting from 10+ levels with universal full game content quests (and that's only one part (+ time travel, but it's less for lore, more for keeping players busy) of content where scaling technology really should be implementing, but nowhere else).

That's what Киджи wrote about in one of paragraphs here <url> and that's what I call a lost opportunity.. but it was implemented in another way to the story and let would be ashamed those who think that Legion has a good lore (details in the same link).

For those who'll argue with mythic+, I'll explain that dungeons can have more complex bosses(also lurking or walking random here and there) + mechanisms(time-bound or resource-based) + directions(unstable or closed) + branches(temporarily cut) + cores(farther and deeper) of labyrinth that would not_opened+impassable with low level gear, but with patch-progress and grows of characters straight becomes relevant (as BH, VoA, Dragonshrines, Auchindoun and others but much more voluminous - like most of all vanilla dungeons but not new short 'faster!faster!-scenarios', this is so universal solution that works also for open world content with limited flights and certain locations design), remaining thus inaccessible to unprepared group and relevant entire addon.
Mythic+ not needed
- repetition, repetition and again repetition -
Too much work for developers?
- excuses, excuses and again excuses -
This is what we can call content, but not the same story for every character you lvling = Boring? I guess so. 'G-g-good lo-o-ore'?.. heh, not even near.
================================
Does Legion look like this? I don't think so.. a-and that's why it scx!

Part of warlock's message to which druid referred:

Class holds are good, but not in form which have implemented (don't meet current name/purpose). Good examples of true "class holds" - Moonglade (druids), Peak of Serenity (monks), Ravenholdt (rogues), Acherus (DK).
1) Сharacter formation as class representative should take place here (from almost 1st-lvl), not so that it comes here as finally formed hero and use place just simply for reputation/getting quest items/dailies.
2) But it shouldn't be intrusive (more detached from current plot, not nailed to it), give character full actions freedom => In this way appearance of another class won't linked to "shove it into framework of actual content" problem (people also asked similar questions about artifacts)
--- snip ---
Btw artifacts are bad design (<url> Gigz looking at Donald knows this feeling) only difference from korean stuff (almost whole character life it upgrade 1 weapon) is talent system in it (more about in my class+talent posts). People say that order-table and champions isn't "garrison stuff", but in fact it's the same, only slightly retouched (if it weren't so, then you won't take champions with you on quests (what next? full AI party in dungeon? what? already have in scenarios? gre-e-eat -__-), won't give them duties, you won't need to upgrade class holds, you won't tied to them with need to go there each day for "doing main story" or getting resources <url>, their stuff won't stick to only one addon and Blizzard won't developed special mobile application for their managing). Another thing that it doesn't saying that "it's good/bad", it's just a fact (IMO it's very bad for story and RPG part, but apparently every player could makes self this decision)

Also (it's kind of my interpretation)...

In fact, this is largely work of glyphs... but, by the way, they could "recreate" Сlass-halls in a more correct version. That is, they should be tied to all content and placed in zones where they will be available, for example, from level 10 with available scaled scenarios/challenges (opened with character grows), and as rewards for them would be given currency or some kind of increasing counter, which would be ability to "apply"/change/switch between them. Additional cosmetic award could be given with "gold rewards". Content would remain relevant all the time, given some need, albeit not often, to change one to other during playing time. Thus, "glyphs'" system returns to you (although I still see them better as talents, and similar content came up quite well for certain abilities that class receives after getting specific lvl, it was even without phasing and other garbage earlier, but quests were given to be performed in particular place of open world, which, however, doesn't interfere to do the same now), there is also some connection with player’s training in character class playing/character grows (a la MoP Proving Grounds) and kind of solo content. Mage tower is specific expansion's content, but, same as Class-halls, this is wrong use of such technology. No-no-no, they have made big mistake at its design stage in Legion, this shouln't be repeated.

Potentially they had 4 more or less naturally formed Class Halls (before insertion Legion's damaging "content and lore" ) Moonglade, Acherus, Peak of Serenity and Ravenholdt. Last one, unfortunately, is knoted by number of unsuccessful quest chains that interfered with such implementation and zone itself is quite modest in size (however, mountain could compensate lack of space, if you know what I mean). Something like that *pointing up* could work, but not the way they did it.

Class' representatives doesn't have to get there at initial levels, basic training is provided by any specialists/trainers in relevant closest settlements... but following own path will sooner or later get there, with passing in from time to time visiting it again and again in connection with current actual situation. That's all and no unnaturally/contrived epic pathos muddles are needed.

Conclusion: it's not really much bad, but implementation was made without taking into account entire holistic design, which made this content inappropriate for the game as a whole (and that is even if without touch upon degree of - artifact's - influence on classes' design, what is far from being positive). Separately, my own stuff about - M+ - here, I don’t want to pay much attention to this stupid addition, since it never really deserve any.

5. About dungeons&requirements also M+/modes (+RNG+g.tokens+t/wf) +(+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+)+(+)+(+/+/+)+

- I'll just mention Mage Tower before we move forward
If without much details, this is solo content as supplement to everything "Class Halls" mentioned above, and judging by reviews very successful/joyfull/satisfy, but its “essence” is absolutely the same - with all this, output will be similar, but with more optimistic context: good, but not enough (= too little).

- Dalaran and Zones
I don't know why it was mentioned here, but this is just feature/navigation part of specific expansion, and not a system's part, which can't be considered as good or bad, it doesn't really matter. Do you want to look at sensibly organized seamless world? *points at Classic's direction* Really, don't know what you're talking about.

- Сlasses
I won't have recalled about this design element at all if I were you. I'd compare Legion only with Cata in terms of previous system destructiveness degree, and according to this (in terms of influence on system) I'd put them in one row. Nothing good happened with classes at that period.

3. Classes philosophies+ (&thier coherence with whole design+resource/supports/balance) +(+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+)+(+)+/+/+
4. Some words about talents (&their connection with classes, borrowed powers) +(+/+/+)+(+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+/+/+/+)

By the way, it's relatively easy to compare them in regards changes in general: BC and WotLK are Classic's continuation from system's point of view, Cata is transitional period, WoD is continuation of MoP, Legion is next transitional+expansion period and BfA+SL are its semantic continuations. But, unlike Classic system's additions, remaining "successors" (WoD and BfA+SL) didn't complement/complicate anything for their systems, but only cut out stuff. Although, even with last in mind, "change/destroy expansions” will go at the very bottom of my list (WoD and BfA+SL would go here just like semantic additions in all comparesons, not like stand alone expansions). If they'd continue to supplement/adjust system simply by supplying players with new content, then all these threads-comparisons would have at least some sense, but now... it's simply “war of different systems”.

I didn't say anything about - raids - simply because I believe that it's necessary to compare them in style of decoration and encounters' organization (because if I return now on their "multi-level" difficulties, then all their merits within framework of overall system will slowly and confidently begin to sink, I wouldn't want that), but since I didn't try them myself (wasn't playing already), so means that don't think it's right for me to leave any own comments here.

ps. So it goes

[Otimus]

Except if you look at what's in BfA compared to Legion, Legion actually had LESS content. Just because you don't want to participate in the content doesn't mean it's not there.

Legion launched with scenarios tailored for almost every single spec in the game, with individual specific weapons for each specific spec, a specific class storyline for every single class, along with a story to a specific area of the game that got told over time. It also launched with a new spec. (It also had other stories told through quests and such post-game besides that). It also had some other PVE content along with that.

BFA had the War Campaign, and it's own PVE content, but it was real slim pickings. I'm really curious as to how you come up with BFA having more. I'm guessing you're ignoring all of the stuff I just said in Legion because it's something you don't care about.

[Niffo]

BFA could be really good if they didn't fuck up the class design so horrible. Coming from Legion with a lot of perks, active abilities and such. To BFA with all those perks and abilities removed. Yeah of course people are going to riot. I do however hope next expansion will be better.

[Teri]

Can't argue that Legion is for sure in the top 4 maybe not 2nd best, and BfA, cannot be any higher than 6th. Just the facts ma'am.

Opinion isn't fact.

Legion is nowhere top 4 for me.

[TheRevenantHero]

Legion launched with scenarios tailored for almost every single spec in the game, with individual specific weapons for each specific spec, a specific class storyline for every single class, along with a story to a specific area of the game that got told over time. It also launched with a new spec. (It also had other stories told through quests and such post-game besides that). It also had some other PVE content along with that.

BFA had the War Campaign, and it's own PVE content, but it was real slim pickings. I'm really curious as to how you come up with BFA having more. I'm guessing you're ignoring all of the stuff I just said in Legion because it's something you don't care about.

BfA has the War Campaign, it's own PvE campaign, and Island Expeditions at the beginning. At max level you opened WQs and Warfronts. The things you listed in Legion isn't really content. A one time scenario that isn't repeatable at all isn't really content in my eyes. Because once you finish those things, that's it. You're done. There's much more replayable content with rewards in BfA than there was in Legion.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Same reason people use any rhetoric.
They are at least partially incapable of independent thought and only think or say things they hear other people say.

The reason it might have been said in the first place is because it is very similar to Legion, in that no major changes have been made to the systems that still exist.
Not because it is exactly the same, just that its less like any expansion we have seen to date - which usually feature major revamps of just about everything, seemingly only for the sake of changing things.