does this game have to be made even simpler for dps?

[Sygil]

Before the 30% buff can mean 25% too lol. If you never had to switch to adds it was possible to go 18k+ even as a non-melee class, although less likely as ranged due to having to switch to adds and snaring etc.

[Deleted]

It depends on the players willingness to improve and the know-how of their class.

I played my monk from 1-85 in LFD and then went to a mix of quests and LFD, by the time i got lvl 90 i had read both a brewmaster and a windwalker guide.
I looked at the stats on the gear i looted instead of ilvl so i prioritized the right stats, Started reforging when i could and did my best to use the right skills.

I think alot of players don't bother with all that untill they are lvl 90, so you could end up with a wrong geared ele shaman who ontop of that doesn't know what buttons to press and when to press them.

*I happens if people play for fun and relaxation instead of preparing for something like guilded raids or pvp.

[Thelxi]

This game=5man dungeons? I think not

I am so sick of people talking about the game's difficulty, while completely ignoring the actual difficult parts of the game like heroic raiding.

If you want a challenge in an MMO, it is right there up in your face. You want a challenge? join a damn high end raiding guild! There is almost no ceiling, and most complainers sure as hell would never even come close to it.

[melodramocracy]

Wow, barely a month after release, and we're already into the "I did more than that in quest greens" bullshit.

Gotta love this forum.

[Shennanigans]

Servers down for maint, nothing better to do than rag on ppl leveling.

[Breccia]

I find it sad how many people think 30k dps is actually decent at 90.

Well hold on. Your gear doesn't all magically turn epic the second you hit 90. People in heroics are on the path towards being raid-ready and all, but haven't necessarily gotten there yet. 30k is not a bad start for someone who's very likely still half in quest greens and hasn't spent a single Valor Point yet.

30k in a normal-difficulty raid group is an entirely different story. Sadly, it's a story I'm getting to know very, very well. Sigh.

[fizzbob]

easier it gets, the worst people get

what we need is to make it harder, lose 7 million people but that won't happen

we need to cull the population

[dryankem]

Yeah I wouldn't brag too much. That DPS seems extremely low but I'm often finding people in the 10-20k range but gear is such a big difference and so is class. My DK with roughly an ilvl of just shy of 450 pulls anywhere from 40-50k for an entire dungeon run but my spriest struggles to get 25-30 for the entire dungeon (has roughly a ilvl of 440), basically my spriest is garbage for trash but shines on bosses. Sure admittedly I'm not great at Shadow but if my dots can't run a full cycle on a mob then my dps is going to be low as compared to my DK who's main abilities includes a ranged AOE and has very little damage over time. Neither toon is fully enchanted or reforged but the gear is being replaced almost every run so it's not worth spending the money on. Once I'm ready for LFR then I'll make sure everything is enchanted, gemmed and reforged properly but not till then.

[yjmark]

It's been this way since vanilla. The issue is that there is such a wide variation of skill nowadays, and that variation just increases over time (i.e. good players get better, and newer players are not so good).

imho - a real solution would be to have leveling actually teach you how to play your class in a group environment. Currently, leveling only teaches you how to solo mobs that die in 2 hits. It does absolutely nothing to show you how to handle group environments where mobs last longer than that.

[GotYoShoes]

Yes.

I remember when Mutilate spec was a total pain in the ass and was sooo easy to screw up. Now it's nearly as mindless as combat and puts out insane amounts of damage.

Rogues are like the SF3 Chun-Li of WoW.

[Deleted]

Yes.

I remember when Mutilate spec was a total pain in the ass and was sooo easy to screw up. Now it's nearly as mindless as combat and puts out insane amounts of damage.

Rogues are like the SF3 Chun-Li of WoW.

Mutilate was never a pain in the ass and easy to screw up.

[GotYoShoes]

I hated HFB. So much.

[Deleted]

Ok, HFB was a pain in the ass when you had to stack it to 3.

[Keoren]

Of course they were. But they still weren't doing 19-21k on Saurfang. Especially before the 30% buff. There's exaggerating your dps, and then there's just plain bullshitting.

It was possible to do 20k before the buff if you had ICC gear and the fight was short enough. In cases it required some luck as well. Seems quite a weird thing to argue about though. Whatever the case, most people were not pulling those numbers.

[Gilian]

I find it sad how many people think 30k dps is actually decent at 90.

It isn't? What is decent then? 50k? You count only AoE I guess.

Try playing a shadow priest and AoE in heroics. We are supposed to multidot but when mobs die in 10-15 seconds it's not really a good option to multidot. Even in ilvl 473 you can barely do 50k dps with mind sear on 5+ mobs.

People complaining about a level 90 doing 30k dps in a heroic clearly have no clue what they are talking about.

[Rivellana]

I'm a monk healer, and I do beat some dps on some fights, sadly. I don't usually fistweave that much either unless there's just not alot of damage going out and I'm bored and want to kill stuff faster. There's just some people that aren't going to learn no matter what you do.

Honestly there are some situations I find even worse. Like the other day I queued up for the first boss of H-Siege of Niuzao Temple and because I use addon raid frames and such I don't immediately see who my tank is until I mouse over them and addon tells me their spec. Well I had a warrior and another monk in group but before I got a chance to see which one was tank, the warrior charged into the first pack of adds and started taking tons of damage, then next thing I knew the monk was taking tons of damage. This continued through every pack of trash until it was clear enough to pull the boss. By then I had blown pretty much every healing cooldown I had and gone through most of my mana. It was at that point I was finally allowed to sit and drink and figure out which one was the tank...the monk. So basically the dps warrior was pulling packs of mobs because he was impatient. I was more than eager to drop group after the first boss for that group, I tell you.

Also some of the others are right, not everyone uses addons and not everyone has Recount/Skada running all the time so they might not ever know if they're doing horribly.

[Gilian]

It was possible to do 20k before the buff. You might be thinking about the dps numbers of another tier at the moment.

Possible, if you had the right class (rogues?) and got buffed by your whole raid for the sole purpose of topping dps on worldoflogs. Easily my ass.

Before buff I did max 13k dps on my elemental shaman without getting tricks and all that kind of shit. That was in pretty good gear for that time. I wonder where I should have gotten that other 7k from. There was room for improvement but not an improvement of more than 50%. And then this guy says you could get 19-21k EASILY. Sure.

[Deleted]

It isn't? What is decent then? 50k? You count only AoE I guess.

Try playing a shadow priest and AoE in heroics. We are supposed to multidot but when mobs die in 10-15 seconds it's not really a good option to multidot. Even in ilvl 473 you can barely do 50k dps with mind sear on 5+ mobs.

People complaining about a level 90 doing 30k dps in a heroic clearly have no clue what they are talking about.

Wow. I would rip my eyes out if i had to play with someone doing 30k dps.

50k for aoe is horrible, just horrible. This long after release we're looking at 70k+ singeltarget and 100k aoe, should average out around 80k overall preferably.

Unless you're doing that, you have either, not bothered rading, done dailys or are playing a alt that dinged 5mins ago, you can easily get 470 ilvl from ah/crafts alone.

The standards ppl have now a days is just horrible, it scares me how little ppl expects out of players.

*edit: 70k for a 2min bossfight aint much to ask, you pretty much have cooldowns up to every fight.

[SteakAndAlePie]

It is my opinion that DPS on trash are not really a measurement of skill. Some classes have easy AoE available, like DKs, other do not.

For a boss with a decent lifespan 50k - 60k is fine with a mix of Heroic and LFR gear. 30k is indeed subpar and 40k is what most players will be able to pull of. Some classes piloted by a decent player can do 70k - 80k at that gear level. As soon as you have 489 gear mixed in those numbers obviously go up.

[Keoren]

Possible, if you had the right class (rogues?) and got buffed by your whole raid for the sole purpose of topping dps on worldoflogs. Easily my ass.

I changed my wording slightly. It is true that the dps numbers of the previous expansions often get exaggerated, an example being the average dps being said to have been 2k in TBC while in reality you were lucky to find a random group with a player crossing 1k even after 2.4.

Anyway, I recall it being possible as at least mages and warriors on top of that. Mages mostly needed luck, and crossing 20k was not that consistent even for players who had done it before and in cases required the assistance of the group, but 10-12k on that fight is also bit on the too low side. If I recall correctly, that's a number you would have been doing in late-ish T9 gear.