Brilliant idea to solve " LFR Loot " problems.

[jonoy8]

if they could let us trade loot it again would solve alot of problems.

like i've gotten the same boots 3 times now on one of my characters and I just vendor them, whereas I wouldn't have a problem giving them to someone else if i could

people get loot they don't even need or want that other people do.

[KCguy]

The current system is just fine to me. And this is coming from someone who hasn't gotten a thing in over a month. You compete against yourself. RNG is RNG. If they're going to improve on it, go for it, but it got rid of the loot drama.

[Deleted]

Wait? Is there a problem with LFR? You spend 1 hours a week/raid.. Do people really want to get full LFR gear in 4 weeks?

You wouldn't get full LFR in 4 weeks this way either. You would get like 4 items. The thing is that you would get a guaranteed piece this way, instead of running LFR for several weeks without ever getting anything.

[Dequanacus]

Oh my god. LFR loot does not HAVE problems. It doesn't NEED to be fixed. Holy shit, you're just upset because you're not winning shit. LFR - fuck that, ALL raiding - always had RNG. Just admit it, you don't like change. In DS LFR, like in normal raiding, random items from that boss' loot table would drop. That's random part one. And trust me, I had many, many times in which I didn't see a single piece drop for me. Then, the random rolls to see if you could get the items you wanted, if one was available, not to mention rolling against guildmates helping each other out and assclowns who need stuff to vendor it or just to see the trail of tears from the people who could've used it.

There is NOTHING WRONG with our current LFR loot system. RNG is RNG. It's always been in LFR loot, it's just different, and BETTER now. Just because you don't see 4 pretty pictures of delicious gear appear on your screen now doesn't mean this way is bad. It doesn't mean your chances for getting gear are any worse. Christ, they've even given us a SECOND CHANCE at getting gear from bosses, and STILL people complain.

This mentality is getting worse and worse every year that passes. Here's a basic rundown:

Raiding
"This is no good, we want easier epics" - introduce badges
"This is no good, we want easier epics" - higher level badge gear gets easier to obtain with each new tier
"This is no good, we want easier epics" - 5 mans can drop epics
"This is no good, we want easier epics" - introduce LFR
"This is no good, we want easier epics" - Blizzard gives you a second roll at LFR loot, that ALWAYS at least gives you money
"This is no good, we want easier epics"

It just goes on and on. You people are never satisfied. I don't even know anymore.

I'm glad someone seems to notice what's been going on. Until recently I've been trying to get Starshatter (the two handed sword from Elegon) from LFR. I was killing him since he was released and always spent at least one (at times two) of my tokens on him and still never got it until a week before ToES LFR came out.

Am I crying about it on the forums? No. Blizzard has already made gearing 100s of times simpler than it used to be and if people still are complaining that they arent gearing up fast enough (when they have dailies, quests that award epics, dungeons that drop epics, rares that drop epics, gear that's upgradeable with valor, holiday events that give epics, tokens that are easy to get and have a chance at giving you epics and a mode where you afk for a chance at a free epic for each one of those bosses along with two world bosses and you know, the two actual raiding tiers where epics were supposed to be kept) than Blizzard might as well just give players a full set of epic gear when they reach 90.

Blizzard has given people more than enough ways to get epics per week. You aren't supposed to be fully geared in a month and making epics even easier to get isn't going to help the current attitude some people seem to have towards LFR.

[zeropeorth]

I honestly think the whole game should be set to reward you for playing and defeating content.

filling 1 slot a week, 16 slots, 4 months to fill all slots, the new item upgrade system allows for further upgrade, instead of through Valor, possibly make it the Ulduar HM mechanic' in both normal and heroic have the boss give a currency for the upgrades; which would allow for you to progress your guilds' raid gear at the level you can realistically complete the instances in the life cycle of the content ... not punishing non-heroic raiders, and getting people back into working on the content that is right for them, better tuning, instead of people wiping on a heroic boss they shouldn't be, instead of clears and getting their raid geared up.

If a new tier of raid isn't out within 4 months, that is the fault of the company producing content (for a monthly subbed game), not the playerbase having nothing to do. 3 tiers a year should be a given; even 1 million *true subs = 180 million a year, the entire budget of SWtOR over 5 years of development including quality voice acting.

This would allow people to be fully geared, upgraded and ready to take on the next tier. This also assumes full completion. If done with a true 'raid' currency, full clears necessary to equal a piece of gear, not available through LFR kills. The gear that would be purchasable would be 3 ilvls lower than the current raid gear. For end game tier, have a few pieces of BOE-transmog gear (no stats) so people can get rid of the currency before next xpac, where it would be cleared/sold, so the first tier of next xpac people can't buy a set (ideally xpac would come at most 6 months after final tier, not 8-12).

This way, say, theoretical xpac-Y release jan 2013, May 2013 tier 2, Sept 2013 tier 3, Jan 2014 (final) tier 4 released; July 2014 xpac Z releases. 18 month xpac cycle, 4 month tier cycle with 6 month final tier (to move all resources to polishing new xpac).

With gear upgrades, you are never 'done' upgrading your gear through out the 4 month cycle. You feel, regardless of RNG, you can get the sense of accomplishment, of EARNING your rewards, for your efforts. It isn't 'free' gear. If you are exceptionally lucky, you can make some gold off of BoE mog gear, or mog yourself.

If 1 piece a week is best case scenario, and the 'average' player, will likely be seeing a week without earning enough if they aren't doing full clears ... additionally, if content is gated like this tier, ICC; then players will NOT be able to get enough the first several weeks anyway, and that prevents having a full set if RNG smiles on you, too early.

Another note, make sure the gear available for the currency has a different itemization, furthering the ability for people who min/max to choose the gear that best suits them, their set, and their purpose. Off-set pieces could have a different bonus than the true tier, making them still viable, if say the tier isn't optimally made for your class/spec/build stat priority. Make the heroic sets amazing. Make the vendor sets have no animations or glow, possibly updated and recolored skins of old models, as a way to spend resources on updating old textures through using them with current content. This will still give you the sense of 'wow, that guy has the upgraded heroic set, they are at the top of their game' feeling, while not punishing people for playing at their skill level, letting each person have fun with the game the way they can, whether it is time, skill, or disabilities that hold them back from being 'Method/Paragon'.


Raiding SHOULD NOT be about 'getting gear'. It SHOULD be about fun, challenging content you feel engaged in, want to do for the thrill of the encounter, and about working together with your guildmates/friends to accomplish your goals. If you are spending 10-20 hours a week on a video game, you have put your time in ... if you spend 30+ hours a week on it, you are either in a world first level guild, and that is a reward of its own.

I don't agree with 'skinner box', no reward for efforts, blame it on RNG, false way of making content 'last longer' when gear isn't the reason to raid, as much as it is a reward for raiding and defeating nefarious foes that threaten your world and friends.

LFR, even though not really touched on my post, should be 'mostly' left alone ... except, Valor nerfed, while 'real' bosses valor buffed, and add some flasks and flavor to the 'sorry, no loot' bag.
The only exceptions to that would be, if you complete all current tier LFR bosses, without 'abandoning' your raid (including finishing bosses you've already downed), you can get a special currency that could be used to buy an LFR piece. This in turn, in the same way organized guilds can earn gear despite RNG failures, LFR level raiders could as well, while also rewarding people for staying through the end, and helping to stem the issue of partial group backfilling in the first place.

As a previous poster has explained, time is money, and anyone spending 60 hours a month on the game, should find some sense of reward for playing how they want, in the xpac championed as a play it your way design. 60 x $7/hr is 420/mo (1600 over 4 months), I'd say having a set of gear over 4 months vs 1600 is not a fair trade off, but you -should- be having fun, so it is. As goblins say, 'time is money, friend' ... and if people start to not feel 'rewarded' in a game the play for pleasure, they will leave ... when they leave, less resources go to the game, and slowly, the game kills itself (Phantasy Star Universe for 360/PS3/PC is an example).

Most people aren't asking to be handed a set of gear. They just want to feel their time/efforts are duly awarded. Not with the best gear in the game, but with the gear that is related to the effort, time, and level of difficulty they take on.

Most of the people I found that try to be 'elitists' are usually bads, good players care about themselves and their accomplishments, bad players WANT the gear, and don't want anyone else to have it. They WANT to feel superior, instead of just being happy with what they can do. They are exclusionists, because it is the only way they can feel better about themselves, but if they accepted they don't have the skill or time of Method/Paragon, never will, and were happy with what they do, and helped others, they'd feel tons better.

Whenever I see the negativity towards rewarding peoples' efforts, that is exactly what I think of the person. They always come off sounding angry, selfish, and a me-first-and-only spoiled brat. Shame in a game that should be about socialization and cooperation ... at least with your own faction, sometimes with opposing faction, when say, fighting the burning legion.



p.s. it isn't about easier epics, you could make the gear rare. Color of gear doesn't matter, stats do. Let Heroic gear only be epic/purple for all I care. Stats have always mattered more, only that selfish, gear lusted crowd who think ilvl means more than ability and proper min/maxing care about that, they are the problem, and they go on forums saying 'gear shouldn't be easy' (for everyone else) while they guild hop trying to be carried to 'lootz', while the top end guilds do it undergeared.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Blizzard has given people more than enough ways to get epics per week. You aren't supposed to be fully geared in a month and making epics even easier to get isn't going to help the current attitude some people seem to have towards LFR.

It's not LFR.

LFR just highlights the problem more: people got used to gearing out via guild raids and expect the same gear out rate everywhere.

In comes non-tradeable gear, and folks are miffed that the candy isn't there every week.

LFR showed it in spades when it was released with whole guilds queuing to get their team geared quick. LFR showed it when gear could be traded (and I'm glad it's not, especially after that episode with my alt, a guy so expecting gear he made a level 1 then a DK to crap on my alt because I gave it to another). LFR showed it when the very raiders who mooched the gear, calling for LFR gear to be worse after they got their own.

The real problem is the community itself.

[Kuthe]

YOU GET FREE GEAR.
STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOU DON'T GET IT SOMETIMES.

GO BACK ONE EXPANSION, YOU WEREN'T GETTING FREE EPICS FOR DOING NOTHING AT ALL. NOW YOU ARE.
APPRECIATE IT, AND JUST STOP SOOKING.

/rant over.

Seriously over the amount of 'fixing' LFR. Which there doesn't need to be, at all.
LFR shouldn't even give gear, just the experience, I don't see why they know best when it comes to loot distribution.

[Ddps]

Maybe titling this "An Average Idea to Solve LFR Loot" would have been a much better idea.

I hear all this complaints about not getting loot in LFR, but if you actually take a look at LFR for what it is, it makes perfect sense. If you have done a single boss in actual raiding you know you are not promised gear, and even if your piece drops, you might not get it.

LFR is a dumbed-down much quicker and faster versions of the raid and are treated as such. Your asking to get a token or a reward just for simply doing the raid. Why not then implement a token system for regular and heroic? Because it takes away the value of the items. You loose sight of the actual purpose of getting that upgraded piece by replacing it with currency that is un-needed.

Stop asking for handouts.

[Seranthor]

What do you guys think? Really! Come with the negs and positives!

What you've just described is the valor system, except, you have your system setup to guarantee gear, and to give it faster... all you've done is inserted yet another currency into the system instead of making it free gear off the bosses, thats all.

And, you probably should have used a title of 'I want LFR to be a loot pinata again'

---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 02:32 AM ----------

I spent this weeks 16 bosses down. 3 Tokens spent. Wanna know what loot I got? 1 chest token - I'm happy as fuck. My friend did the same. He got 4 items, spent no token.

---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 03:52 AM ----------



What is the difference of that if blizzard intended a average of 1 loot every week from the LFR? just that some people get 3 and other 0..

RNG is working as intended... you are always going to get a piece of gear... sometimes you lose the roll...

[razski]

Your system is in place, it's called Valor Points. People do not need to get gear every week. If you get a piece that's fine, if not it's not the end of the world. The way it's set up now you can roughly get 1 piece every 2 weeks which is more than fine. If you get gear every week then what are you going to do when there's no more to get? QQ about how there's nothing to do? If that's the method someone chooses then a single player game is more up their alley as that is how the reward system is. MMO's aren't based on that system and shouldn't be as you'd run out of stuff to do.

It takes more time to develop something than for us to complete it and it's like this with every game.

My alt druid would disagree with that. RNG is based way too much on luck. I've taken him into LFR for 6 weeks running and gotten 1 piece of loot, in the first week. 36 kills with 1 piece of loot. Feels a little too based on luck. There are a lot of others out there in a similar situation and to be frank, basing a lot distribution purely on luck, means a lot of people are going to be rather unlucky and feel that the loot system is flawed. Which of course, it is.

However there would be a simple fix, add in a hidden stat that increases your chances, the longer you go without gear. Add an extra 5% or so onto your chance for each kill where you receive no loot.

[TheWerebison]

My alt druid would disagree with that. RNG is based way too much on luck. I've taken him into LFR for 6 weeks running and gotten 1 piece of loot, in the first week. 36 kills with 1 piece of loot. Feels a little too based on luck. There are a lot of others out there in a similar situation and to be frank, basing a lot distribution purely on luck, means a lot of people are going to be rather unlucky and feel that the loot system is flawed. Which of course, it is.

However there would be a simple fix, add in a hidden stat that increases your chances, the longer you go without gear. Add an extra 5% or so onto your chance for each kill where you receive no loot.

Fine, where was the hidden stat that increased my chances of getting loot from DS every time I didn't get loot? It didn't exist. It didn't need to.

I say it again, RNG has ALWAYS been a part of raiding. ALWAYS. And of course it's based on luck. Why is that a bad thing? Luck isn't some magical quantity that some people possess and others don't. It's luck, it's randomness. Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

In raids throughout WoW's history, you have always had to rely on luck, to HOPE that you would get a piece of gear. This is just absurd. I guarantee you that if the OP had gotten, let's say, 4 pieces of LFR loot by now, he would not be here bitching that LFR needs, to his mind, "fixing".

Oh, and for the people in this thread who are saying, "Hey, man, this isn't about epics. LFR loot could be blues and nobody would mind." Bullshit. Purple is the color of quality in this game (well, and orange), and if people don't get it, they whine, much like the OP is doing.

[Deleted]

The reason for RNG is that it gives the player a feeling of always having a chance of loot, even if it's slim, knowing that you at least have a chance of getting something each run makes it more exciting. It's what gambling, and MMO's are more or less built up around.

In PvP we don't have the RNG system, instead we have the grinding system you propose, the problem here is that you can see the end of the tunnel from the start, you can see exactly how long it is and how much time it will take to reach the end of it. Either it's going to be too short, and people will quickly run out of things to do. Or it's going to be too long and people won't be arsed to continue the mindless grind.

This is where RNG fits in quite well, with a bit of luck it might go rather quickly, but it might also take a lot of time, all in all it will likely take about the same time as for everyone else and each run will give you the feeling of at least having a chance of not leaving empty handed.

Sure, it sucks when you get gold after gold after gold, but I feel a long grind would be even worse.

Something I would like to be added to it though, and increase in chance of loot for each time it doesn't happen, and then to have that bonus reset each time luck is in your favor.

[Alvito]

The current LFR Loot System is near perfect. Why change it?

---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 09:20 PM ----------



If you think LFR is little to no effort, you have not done it.

It takes the same effort that watching anal spam in trade does for the same amount of time. LFR is a watered down version of 10 man for almost all fights rarely is the life or dmg increased on mechanics while many are cut out and you get 15 more ppl. The only way it is chalenging is on the rare fights where 1 or 2 ppl can wipe the group, say some dumb shit stands in the purple ring and lets the raid get crushed over and over.

[velde046]

What do you guys think? Really! Come with the negs and positives!

Honestly? I don't like it because it is unnecessary. There are other ways to gera up if RNG isn't favouring you... you still get VP which you can accumulate to get gear, so why the extra, it makes no sense. Besides, in regular raiding I also had weeks where I'd get nothing.
It's fine the way it is really, your suggestion is nothing but another way to get geared faster and then complain there's nothing to do.... besides you already clear LFR so there's no urgent need to get better gear.

[Huntaer]

Sorry, but i had the urge to do this:

[Rotted]

Dont fix what isn't broken,

The system works fine

I've been in three times on my mage, and had nothing,

I've been in once on my priest (only the vaults) and had 4 items

I'm happy, their both alts I haven't leveld the main yet,

[velde046]

if they could let us trade loot it again would solve alot of problems.

like i've gotten the same boots 3 times now on one of my characters and I just vendor them, whereas I wouldn't have a problem giving them to someone else if i could

people get loot they don't even need or want that other people do.

Nah, must say it's more relaxed in raids with trade option no longer viable. Just sell or nuke the item you can't use. Don't let the a-holes get another option of scamming or annoying people.

[Talen]

The problem with RNG in WoW is that its RNG set by the Casino owners ... hence the RNG is in their favor.

The problem with RNG is that its RNG.

I've read Blizzards response as to why they use this system, and yes those are very valid points.

At the same time, RNG has its down side. You get a dry period and you feel frustration at not getting anything. Blizzard lowering the VP rewards doesn't help either....yes, its meant as the fallback position and the safety net and to compensate for dry spells - but Blizzard currently has it set at a level too few players care about and they can't be used to buy the gear players really want from raids.

There's also those times where you need just one more specific piece and it refuses to drop. Or, with transmog, where an offset piece for your set may be dropped for another spec. Paladins, for example, often see their offsets assigned to Holy forcing Rets/Prot to use warrior/DK styled pieces. Or warriors, where the boots for the LFR gear were a tank drop.

None of these problems are what I'd call major or in dire need of attention. But I am leaning towards the mndset that they do highlight areas of concern and highlights aspects of the system that could be improved.

EJL

[TanksBosses]

I just did TES lfr and it had a 30 minute queue and the raid itself took 40 minutes with an average group and no wipes. lfr isn't exactly quick and the queues are getting longer as people are getting bored with mop.

If the op is talking about your scenario tho, that would mean he had a half hour to do dailies. Somehow tho he doesn't even have time to do one even 1 per day!

[razski]

Fine, where was the hidden stat that increased my chances of getting loot from DS every time I didn't get loot? It didn't exist. It didn't need to.

I say it again, RNG has ALWAYS been a part of raiding. ALWAYS. And of course it's based on luck. Why is that a bad thing? Luck isn't some magical quantity that some people possess and others don't. It's luck, it's randomness. Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

In raids throughout WoW's history, you have always had to rely on luck, to HOPE that you would get a piece of gear. This is just absurd. I guarantee you that if the OP had gotten, let's say, 4 pieces of LFR loot by now, he would not be here bitching that LFR needs, to his mind, "fixing".

Oh, and for the people in this thread who are saying, "Hey, man, this isn't about epics. LFR loot could be blues and nobody would mind." Bullshit. Purple is the color of quality in this game (well, and orange), and if people don't get it, they whine, much like the OP is doing.

Well, I lead a raiding guild and make sure the loot that drops, if useful, is distributed fairly.

LFR on my druid, 6 weeks in a row, with nothing out of it is a huge waste of my time. And seeing as time is a valuable commodity, I would like to feel as though I actually get something out of it other than another week of extremely bad luck.

I'm not complaining about not getting loot every week, I'm complaining that I've done LFR on my druid 6 weeks in a row and got one piece on the first week. Yet all around me I hear of people getting items every time they go, sometimes loot from almost every boss, most of the time, repeats of what they already have and it gets frustrating that I've not seriously had a single peice, at all, for 5 weeks (not counting the first week here because I did get an item).

Where does the motivation come from to continue running LFR if you are seriously frustrated at taking a toon through that gets no loot, week, after week, after week, after week?

And I'm not alone in this. Just because you've had good luck with drops, doesn't mean that everyone is happy with the current model.