Rise of The Hutt Cartel: First Digital Expansion

[RoninaThorstone]

Nobody expects Blizzard to award you 5 more lvls as part of a free content patch let's say.

That's not the problem so much.

Why do you get to pay half as much as me?

[Repefe]

It isn't because what about people who've payed since the game was launched? Even in Blizzard games they don't get expansions for free. They give you content patches yes but not whole expansions. Expansion content is charged REGARDLESS of time subscribed.

Yes you think subscribers are being spit on because BW isn't giving them something that virtually all their competitors normally charge for. This is a problem of perception, not of you actually being ripped off. Hell it can't be, you don't even know what's in the bloody thing yet. They've decided to try a different pricing model for their EXPANSION content (not regular patching content) and your confused by it.

There is nothing to be confused about. The word you are looking for is disappointment. Disappointment that BW does not treat their subscribers better. And one paid expansion every 2 years to me sounds more reasonable than having to pay for every holiday event and every content patch that gets labeled as expansion on top of subscription. Honestly the level cap raise does anybody care about that ? The important parts of the content are planet and its story and that's what was announced as big FREE content patch before.

Now they put together a few talents, 8 abilities and bam it's an expansion and as such pay us some more. Not to mention it's faction story = 2 stories instead of 8.

[bloodwulf]

TonyIommi, I think if this planet was going to be comparable to other games expacks they would not say it is the size a current large planet, most other mmo's expansion gives us tons of new zone on top of new classes (rift and wow) and other new features. Before you say we have not heard everything, don't you think if they were smart and wanted to draw attention to an upcoming content release, the press release would include most of the new features and hint at others? This does neither. Cool they are giving us more faction storylines (many mmos give that in content patches for free) and more levels, both of which the f2p players will have to either pay additional to fully enjoy. It is fine if you want to compare this to another MMOs expack, but being realistic, most people are too leery of Bioware with the way they have treated F2P. If you are a subscriber, this is a really good deal, if you are a F2P player you once again are getting treated as second rate players.

[Repefe]

GW2 also released a new zone I'm informed, free of charge and they don't even pay subscriptions fee. And in all of these cases there's story attached to them.

Also they released holiday dungeon, mob drops and crafting for christmas ... for free. Vs ... 25 fireworks for christmas for SUBSCRIBERS in TOR.

[Azhreia]

I'm not setting myself up for anything. I'm simple saying you don't have any precise details yet so judgement can and should be reserved. From what we do know now, much more is being offered in this update than can be reasonable expected as part of a regular content update. Nobody expects Blizzard to award you 5 more lvls as part of a free content patch let's say.

Unfortunately those five levels are the only thing one wouldn't expect in a regular content update. Besides THEY themselves first mentioned Markeb as a free content update only to later go back on their word, relabel it an expansion and charge money for it.

[Leonard McCoy]

No they don't, they are all available to anyone, free of charge.



I have played MMO's that offer me the equivilant of an SWTOR planet for free, which is a zone, it's called WoW, both Silithus and isle of que'danas were completely free zones beyond the subscription fee, they also came with raids, quests and dungeons. The only difference levels bringing is me getting experience for those quests. GW2 also released a new zone I'm informed, free of charge and they don't even pay subscriptions fee. And in all of these cases there's story attached to them.

I also see you have yet to touch the sensitive subject on them charging for what was originally promised to be free.

And how can you with a straight face sit and say we have no accurate information and in the same breath sit and assure us it's basically on the scale of MoP only cheaper?

They must have changed the model then. When HoN first went f2p it was limited what heros you could pick each month. IOQD and Silithus are not on the scale of a planet in star wars. Even if you go by the sort of vanilla definition of a planet then they outscale ioqd and silithus by a massive amount. In addition to that you factor in new levels, new abilities, new faction stories, and who knows what else we aren't quite aware of atm. The simple fact is that what's being offered here is obviously much more than a regular content patch from any developer.

I agree we don't have all the information, HOWEVER what we do know is what I listed earlier is being offered to us. The principle behind this dlc type expansion and mists is not very different. In either case subscribers are paying for content in ADDITION to what you get from your normal update. It's funny cause on the wow forums that argument is the opposite. Your sub only pays for you to have access to the server and doesn't "entitle" you to see more content. I don't particularly agree with that argument but by the same token clearly what's being offered here (even with the scant information we do have) is much more than would normally be offered as part of a regular content update.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:04 PM ----------

Unfortunately those five levels are the only thing one wouldn't expect in a regular content update. Besides THEY themselves first mentioned Markeb as a free content update only to later go back on their word, relabel it an expansion and charge money for it.

New abilites, new talents, new faction specific story lines.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:06 PM ----------

There is nothing to be confused about. The word you are looking for is disappointment. Disappointment that BW does not treat their subscribers better. And one paid expansion every 2 years to me sounds more reasonable than having to pay for every holiday event and every content patch that gets labeled as expansion on top of subscription. Honestly the level cap raise does anybody care about that ? The important parts of the content are planet and its story and that's what was announced as big FREE content patch before.

Now they put together a few talents, 8 abilities and bam it's an expansion and as such pay us some more. Not to mention it's faction story = 2 stories instead of 8.

It's confusion alright and it's understandable. This pricing scheme is different from what you get in most mmos. In part this has to be a result of the survey they sent out to players. In any event it's more or less the same thing. You are paying for content that is in excess of what the developers give you as part of your "free" update. If it were piled up and bundled together and charged 40 bucks for you'd be happy. For some reason piecemealing it out at 10 bucks a pop makes you mad.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:07 PM ----------

TonyIommi, I think if this planet was going to be comparable to other games expacks they would not say it is the size a current large planet, most other mmo's expansion gives us tons of new zone on top of new classes (rift and wow) and other new features. Before you say we have not heard everything, don't you think if they were smart and wanted to draw attention to an upcoming content release, the press release would include most of the new features and hint at others? This does neither. Cool they are giving us more faction storylines (many mmos give that in content patches for free) and more levels, both of which the f2p players will have to either pay additional to fully enjoy. It is fine if you want to compare this to another MMOs expack, but being realistic, most people are too leery of Bioware with the way they have treated F2P. If you are a subscriber, this is a really good deal, if you are a F2P player you once again are getting treated as second rate players.

Again it is comparable only in the sense that you are paying for content in excess of what you get from your normal subscription. Again which developer offers you all of what I listed as part of a regular content patch.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:08 PM ----------

Also they released holiday dungeon, mob drops and crafting for christmas ... for free. Vs ... 25 fireworks for christmas for SUBSCRIBERS in TOR.

Did they also give you new abilites, new levels, new talents, new faction story lines? Obviously not.

[Repefe]

Did they also give you new abilites, new levels, new talents, new faction story lines? Obviously not.

You mean for a holiday event ? To celebrate christmas ? Event where TOR gave subscribers fireworks and put the cool stuff in a cash shop ? What talents/story lines did BW introduce for christmas event I must have missed that.

[RoninaThorstone]

You mean for a holiday event ? To celebrate christmas ? Event where TOR gave subscribers fireworks and put the cool stuff in a cash shop ? What talents/story lines did BW introduce for christmas event I must have missed that.

The fireworks were a 1 yr anniversary thing. not christmas

[Leonard McCoy]

You mean for a holiday event ? To celebrate christmas ? Event where TOR gave subscribers fireworks and put the cool stuff in a cash shop ? What talents/story lines did BW introduce for christmas event I must have missed that.

Absolutely none but your praising GW2 for giving you content when the reality is even what they offer you for free isn't as much as the bare minimum of what we know is being offered now in the 10 dollar pack. Find me a developer who gave you EVERYTHING I listed (and that is I again repeat that bare minimum of what we know at this point) for free as part of a regular sub update.

[Repefe]

It's confusion alright and it's understandable. This pricing scheme is different from what you get in most mmos. In part this has to be a result of the survey they sent out to players. In any event it's more or less the same thing. You are paying for content that is in excess of what the developers give you as part of your "free" update. If it were piled up and bundled together and charged 40 bucks for you'd be happy. For some reason piecemealing it out at 10 bucks a pop makes you mad.

But there is no free update ... it was replaced by paid update. You can't get just the planet and story = what was supposed to be free can you. You have to pay them to get that free update.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 12:21 AM ----------

The fireworks were a 1 yr anniversary thing. not christmas

So what did they do for christmas ?

[RoninaThorstone]

So what did they do for christmas ?

Put a lawn mower in the cash shop.

[Angella]

That's not the problem so much.

Why do you get to pay half as much as me?

Because you're a cheapskate who isn't paying for a subscription.

[Repefe]

Put a lawn mower in the cash shop.

Guess TOR subscribers were naughty this year

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 12:32 AM ----------

Absolutely none but your praising GW2 for giving you content when the reality is even what they offer you for free isn't as much as the bare minimum of what we know is being offered now in the 10 dollar pack. Find me a developer who gave you EVERYTHING I listed (and that is I again repeat that bare minimum of what we know at this point) for free as part of a regular sub update.

Like I said ... for $20 as f2p dlc pack it would be a good deal if the f2p wasn't as restrictive. As subscriber who pays $15 a month ... BW asking for extra $10 when they finally make some content is like you said confusing. If the $15 a month can't conver content updates they should raise the subscription. Not release updates that force subscribers to pay them extra money.

[RoninaThorstone]

Because you're a cheapskate who isn't paying for a subscription.

And now I never will, and I won't be alone in that.

[Leonard McCoy]

But there is no free update ... it was replaced by paid update. You can't get just the planet and story = what was supposed to be free can you. You have to pay them to get that free update.[COLOR="red"]

Actually we don't know their won't be a free update before hand or as part of this. It's likely their will be because if your going to integrate this whole thing into the vanilla version of the game you likely will get some kind of a free update. In any event that's irelevant to the issue of why you are paying for this. You are paying for it because THE ENTIRE package is in excess of what you normally would get from a free content update. If they said that Makeb would be free and then changed their minds then yea you can get mad I guess. My suspicion is like I said that survey they gave out a month ago suggested this was a better plan for that content. Getting mad at their pricing scheme for this is just stupid though. It would be like getting mad because you didn't buy pandaria but didn't get the 5 more levels and new continent.

[Deleted]

Speculation. You don't know what's in the actual content patch. What is 1 large planet? What measure is that? We can only take what has been given to us at face value and make a determination until we know more. What we know now is that for 10 bucks we are getting the following:

5 more levels
New abilitiles
New talents
New planet
New faction story line

Can you name an MMO that gave you any of that for free as part of a regular subscriber content patch? Blizzard, ArenaNet and Trion generally don't as far as I'm aware. Bioware is doing the exact same thing, only offering it to you piecemeal.

Aion gave you all that (and more) for free. I don't have much else to say than that, but I just figured I'd chip in and say that at least.
I even think they gave you another planet, I'm not sure though. It was either an entirely new planet like Outland, or a continent.

[RoninaThorstone]

Aion gave you all that for free. I don't have much else to say than that, but I just figured I'd chip in and say that at least.

Vindictus does that too.

[Repefe]

Actually we don't know their won't be a free update before hand or as part of this. It's likely their will be because if your going to integrate this whole thing into the vanilla version of the game you likely will get some kind of a free update. In any event that's irelevant to the issue of why you are paying for this. You are paying for it because THE ENTIRE package is in excess of what you normally would get from a free content update. If they said that Makeb would be free and then changed their minds then yea you can get mad I guess. My suspicion is like I said that survey they gave out a month ago suggested this was a better plan for that content. Getting mad at their pricing scheme for this is just stupid though. It would be like getting mad because you didn't buy pandaria but didn't get the 5 more levels and new continent.

My suspicion is EA told BW get some more money out of the subscribers ... so BW will try. But I have as much proof of that as you with the survey suspicion. If you make too much stuff ... you can just stagger its release. You don't have to go omg mode ppl give us more money we accidentally made extra. The MoP comparison is just wrong. It's more like firelands introducing extra 5 levels would suddenly turn firelands update patch into expansion. It's still just a content patch. It does not introduce a big shift in the world, just a small advance and nobody really wants the level cap increase, it's uncalled for.

[Leonard McCoy]

My suspicion is EA told BW get some more money out of the subscribers ... so BW will try. But I have as much proof of that as you with the survey suspicion. If you make too much stuff ... you can just stagger its release. You don't have to go omg mode ppl give us more money we accidentally made extra. The MoP comparison is just wrong. It's more like firelands introducing extra 5 levels would suddenly turn firelands update patch into expansion. It's still just a content patch. It does not introduce a big shift in the world, just a small advance and nobody really wants the level cap increase, it's uncalled for.

The survey isn't speculation. It happened and unless the publishers/developers have a death wish the result from that feedback is rise of the hutt cartel. It is still not just a content patch. I'm sorry you can call it duck but it isn't a duck. You may not view it a big shift but that's precisely the point. It's a new pricing model for expansion content. Your confused about it, it's understandable because by and large expansion content has always been packaged into one big give away at 40 or 50 bucks of whatever. It is not firelands or 4.1 or 4.3. It's much more than that but much less than mists. The idea is that you are getting content in EXCESS of what you would normally get from regular updates. If your not happy with the regular updates then unsub. However don't whine about them giving a different pricing model when it's more or less the same thing. Just parcelled out different to you.

[Repefe]

The survey isn't speculation. It happened and unless the publishers/developers have a death wish the result from that feedback is rise of the hutt cartel. It is still not just a content patch. I'm sorry you can call it duck but it isn't a duck. You may not view it a big shift but that's precisely the point. It's a new pricing model for expansion content. Your confused about it, it's understandable because by and large expansion content has always been packaged into one big give away at 40 or 50 bucks of whatever. It is not firelands or 4.1 or 4.3. It's much more than that but much less than mists. The idea is that you are getting content in EXCESS of what you would normally get from regular updates. If your not happy with the regular updates then unsub. However don't whine about them giving a different pricing model when it's more or less the same thing. Just parcelled out different to you.

Here is the catch. Imagine big expansion every 2 years vs small expansion every 6 months. You pay the same $40 bucks for 1 big expansion or 4 small expansions. Inbetween all that you get free content patches lets say every 3 months. With big expansion it's 7 content patches, with small expansions it's 4 content patches. In order for the small packagings to even out the big expansion, every small expansion must contain 1/4 of the big expansion + content worth of 0.75 free content patch.

I am missing the 1/4 of the big expansion content here.