February 7: Blizzard Conference Call

[Galaddriel]

Well I must commend you for using wayback machine to stabalize results.

But you also have to realize that T14 isn't done for probably another 1-1.5 months. Most guilds could easilly clear normal in that time, especially as gear gets upgraded.

The population numbers are not based on clearing anything, just killing at least one boss or being in a guild that killed at least one boss.

[Jeleh]

As ALL information given to the stock holders MUST pass an audit of at least 3 INDEPENDANT auditors in order to comply to the regulations of Wall Street, I think anyone stating they can pad much doesn't know what he is talking about. As an interesting note, one of these independant auditors for Blizzard is ... The Deutsche Bank...

Certainly not in the bookkeeping part but even in the wording of the conference. False information given to stock holders is a serious federal crime.

Of course Morhaime is free to speak about "more then X" or "LESS than X", but X better be documented or he hangs after a complaint.

That's one of the reasons they document their definition of what is a subscriber. A LOT of other companies are not even stock rated (like the makers of Rift) and can say whatever they want. PUBLIC Stock rated companies can't do that. That's why EA (also stock rated) no longer mentions ANY number of subscriptions for SW TOR.

I think you are misunderstanding what people such as myself mean when we use the term "padding" with relation to the subscriber numbers. I'm not talking about making numbers up, simply clever ploys which make the subscriber base appear healthier than it is.

Clever marketing schemes such as AP, which ensured people were tied to a years sub; those people could have quit wow and not be playing but still recognized in those subscriber numbers.

A couple of quarters back where the entire wow box set was heavily discounted and coincided with a new RAF mount. Think it was 15 bucks and you could get the new mount by doing your own RAF - once again inflating sub numbers/active player ratio (and plenty of people did just that)

Those are just two I can remember off the top of my head but there have been I believe four similar marketing schemes timed to coincide with when they take their subscriber counts. In the mean time the number of dead realms is increasing, those that wish to have the actual MMO experience are forced to pay a transfer or lose a significant portion of the game.

[Osmeric]

Well I must commend you for using wayback machine to stabalize results.

But you also have to realize that T14 isn't done for probably another 1-1.5 months. Most guilds could easilly clear normal in that time, especially as gear gets upgraded.

At current rates of progression, most guilds will not have cleared T14 normal by that time. Progression really is quite slow this tier. Many guilds of rank worse than 25K have already cracked.

[Black Rider]

I hope there won't be sub loss...

[Raiju]

Moew importantly it was 20% of all NA and EU customers, you know, the ones that actually matter.

Because really the 5 Mio. Asian players don't really matter that much when comparing MMOs.


WoW has roughly 5 Mio. active subscribers in NA and EU. GW2 sold 3 Mio copies so it's safe to assume about half as many people are currently playing GW2 compared to WoW.

This is a hilarious argument considering many people feel pandaria was created to appeal to the dropping asian audience. Just because you don't think it matters doesn't mean blizzard don't (and rightly so!)

[Deadite]

I doubt there will lose much more than 500k. With the forum rage about CRZ and Dailies still raging this long after MOP launch i think half a mill seems like a reasonable decline to expect.

[Pann]

This is a hilarious argument considering many people feel pandaria was created to appeal to the dropping asian audience. Just because you don't think it matters doesn't mean blizzard don't (and rightly so!)

What many people, especially those on MMO-C, feel and what is actually happening are often two different things. If Blizzard are to be believed, and I have no reason not to, the Asian market has been growing until Cata whilst the Western has been in decline for several years now. Considering the disparity between value of a Western sub verses a Chinese one to Blizzard's bottom line, a Western sub brings in roughly eight times more money than a Chinese sub, they would have been absolutely mental to develop an expansion that focused on the less valuable market. I doubt that Blizzard think that China subs do not matter but most certainly their focus is on the West.

[Deleted]

I would guess sub drops to 7 milions. No I am not kidding. Maybe you guys are lucky and have always played on full realms, but the truth is that most of the realms that used to be high are now almost dead. Only massive drop in subs can explain such thing.

[Lilly32]

Blizzard CEO will introduce Jay Wilson as the new lead design Dev for WoW.

[Dabrix32]

Blizzard CEO will introduce Jay Wilson as the new lead design Dev for WoW.

Q1 2013 announcement:

"Blizzard is bankrupt as every single WoW player canceled their accounts at the same time"

[But I Hate You All]

I would guess sub drops to 7 milions. No I am not kidding. Maybe you guys are lucky and have always played on full realms, but the truth is that most of the realms that used to be high are now almost dead. Only massive drop in subs can explain such thing.

How many subs do they have by region?

[Lilly32]

How many subs do they have by region?

Theres a chart somewhere that shows NA,EU, and China. Its a chart showing MMO subs in general and it has WoW broken up by region

[BrerBear]

Theres a chart somewhere that shows NA,EU, and China. Its a chart showing MMO subs in general and it has WoW broken up by region

More importantly, where does that info come from? I don't recall seeing Blizzard themselves breaking subs by region.

[ringpriest]

Theres a chart somewhere that shows NA,EU, and China. Its a chart showing MMO subs in general and it has WoW broken up by region

Sounds like you're thinking of this chart:


It's from MMOData. And it hasn't distinguished between Western and Eastern subs since Blizzard stopped reporting separate numbers back in 2010.

[Immitis]

I think you are misunderstanding what people such as myself mean when we use the term "padding" with relation to the subscriber numbers. I'm not talking about making numbers up, simply clever ploys which make the subscriber base appear healthier than it is.

Clever marketing schemes such as AP, which ensured people were tied to a years sub; those people could have quit wow and not be playing but still recognized in those subscriber numbers.

A couple of quarters back where the entire wow box set was heavily discounted and coincided with a new RAF mount. Think it was 15 bucks and you could get the new mount by doing your own RAF - once again inflating sub numbers/active player ratio (and plenty of people did just that)

Those are just two I can remember off the top of my head but there have been I believe four similar marketing schemes timed to coincide with when they take their subscriber counts. In the mean time the number of dead realms is increasing, those that wish to have the actual MMO experience are forced to pay a transfer or lose a significant portion of the game.

yeah... JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COMPANY.

this argument doesnt hold up. sure if blizzard as the sneaky master mind and was the only one who did this sure than you could say "BUT DAY FLUFFS DAY NUMBAS" but EVERY company spins their numbers in the most pleasant light possible.

how about next time swtor or rift or gw2 posts their numbers everyone go over there and say "PFFFT EVERYONE KNOWS 90% OF ALL THEIR SUBS ARE FROM 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES WHERE THEY PAY FOR IT WITH CHICKEN EGGS"

[Chrno]

Smalll dip ... The release of other MMO's will have some inpact of the subscriber count

[Immitis]

Smalll dip ... The release of other MMO's will have some inpact of the subscriber count

what new mmos O_o wasnt the last new mmo gw2?

[Zephre]

what new mmos O_o wasnt the last new mmo gw2?

Yep, Elder Scrolls coming up next^^

Anyway on topic, small loss not everyone who came back would stick around. I can also see people quitting for perfectly justifiable reasons such as Blizzards inability to deal with bots in BGs (Personal hate of mine) and things such as the boring crapton of dailies (Liked 5.1 style, hated the rest especially shado pan)

[Darksoldierr]

I came back to play WoW on 4th of Jan, since Wotlk's last season, thats +1

[Deleted]

I believe there will be a drop in sub numbers.