Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[anaxie]

I'm Baaaaaack

Oh my what a mess. Op cleanup tonight and tommorrow yes?

[Freppi]

Welcome back Anaxie, we missed you. Looking forward to your updates for 5.2

[Deleted]

I think we're going to need 4 BiS lists:

normal;
normal TF included;
heroic;
heroic TF included.

because with the 6 bonus itemlevels from thunderforged, you're going to have extra hit and expertise if you're just going for heroic or normal. on the other hand, it's extremely unlikely that you're going to have all slots filled with TF items.

but even with just 1 heroic BiS list, you'll have 50.3M different combinations if you consider every item in every slot (accounting for 2 trinkets and 2 rings). even if we take hands as offset gear, that's still 116.6K combinations.

[anaxie]

I think we're going to need 4 BiS lists:

normal;
normal TF included;
heroic;
heroic TF included.

because with the 6 bonus itemlevels from thunderforged, you're going to have extra hit and expertise if you're just going for heroic or normal. on the other hand, it's extremely unlikely that you're going to have all slots filled with TF items.

but even with just 1 heroic BiS list, you'll have 50.3M different combinations if you consider every item in every slot (accounting for 2 trinkets and 2 rings). even if we take hands as offset gear, that's still 116.6K combinations.

no there will be 2 lists Ra-den + Thunderforge casino luck gearset and the real world version. My attempt at the latter was already posted.

Lets hope they slotted the goddamn 2handers in the raid since they are " Builds ahead of us" on ptr usually. Well see when patch goes live and we get to dig through the journal.

[Vigilanti]

I'd say if anaxie were willing to put in the work Normal + Thunderforged BIS,Heroic Realistic BIS, and Lootbag LOL AFKROLLFLEX status BIS.

[anaxie]

I'd say if anaxie were willing to put in the work Normal + Thunderforged BIS,Heroic Realistic BIS, and Lootbag LOL AFKROLLFLEX status BIS.

Why would I skip Heroic + TF BIS? If anything the Normal mode bis is irrelevant outside mentioning Hey if you get a lootbag 2hander use that instead of any other 522 wpn.

Considering the large raid and trash you could likely see a TF trash wpn even. Surprized u can't get heroic trash loot from a failed coin roll off a heroic boss kill. That would solve ALOT of issues.'

That being said I was thinking Ra-den Heroic legs might be bis <even if we go over hitcapLOLWHOOO> because of the large itemization budget chest/legs have and considering if we take tier legs 541 legs or ra-den loot would be unuseable. You get the idea.

Of course 0 guilds would be happy seeing shard loot let alone HEROIC TF shard loot so depending on hands or legs dropping in a TF version your gonna have to alter your gear. Their pretty much similar power wise and anyone lucky enough to get TF Heroic items let alone an OMG trinket / wpn should be very grateful.

[Reith]

I tweeted GC about it, let's hope he reads and replies. My guess is that we won't see more class changes untill a month or so of 5.2 maybe even after progress is done.

They're probably going to do some changes when they get live testing... but I highly doubt they'll change Ret at all from what they have on their internal build right now.

[Licmyseal]

Anaxie has his most recent heroic BiS list on page 76 of the thread if that is what you are looking for.

Edit: Or I could just do this to make it easier

About half-way down the page:

T15 Heroic BiS List

Cheers mate, and cheers anaxie. Good to have you back!

[anaxie]

List you quoted is very raw btw. still general idea moving forward

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 02:49 AM ----------

Checked Ra-den Legs again. I see 0 way to use two more hit items for an additonal +1k hit and come ahead. The problem gets worse with the very real future that 5.3 is pretty likely to have VP + Active making those slot choices even worse as hit overcap climbs in +20-30 increments weekly.

But legs unuseable is considering no Malakk sword... which you have to consider it being early tier and the potential to game a week 2 Heroic Thunderforge weapon immediatly.

If thunderforge didn't exist this would be another cut and dry bis list while debating on 2 trinket options for the second slot. We aren't allowed that satisfaction this tier.

I expect huge changes and surprizes tommorow considering only a portion of TF items have been mined. I think the boss tables were finished in an internal build. Maybe we will be lucky?

Btw how awesome would it be if a Thunderforge is broke like firestones and 10 mans see 5X more then 25s. Big OOPS 2.0 incoming? Of course the concession after that blunder would have to be 2-3 more item drops in 25s or 100% TF drop to compensate.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 03:10 AM ----------

Might of the Frozen Wastes includes melee damage by 20%, up from 15%.
- Icy Talons increases attack speed by 30%, up from 25%.
- Threat of Thassarian now increases Frost Strike damage by 50%, up from 40%.
- Assassin's Resolve now increases damage by 30%, up from 20%.
- Shadow Word: Pain damage increased by 25%.

Push new DPS buffs couple hours before patch. Sound logic!

[Prometheous]

List you quoted is very raw btw. still general idea moving forward

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 02:49 AM ----------

Checked Ra-den Legs again. I see 0 way to use two more hit items for an additonal +1k hit and come ahead. The problem gets worse with the very real future that 5.3 is pretty likely to have VP + Active making those slot choices even worse as hit overcap climbs in +20-30 increments weekly.

But legs unuseable is considering no Malakk sword... which you have to consider it being early tier and the potential to game a week 2 Heroic Thunderforge weapon immediatly.

If thunderforge didn't exist this would be another cut and dry bis list while debating on 2 trinket options for the second slot. We aren't allowed that satisfaction this tier.

I expect huge changes and surprizes tommorow considering only a portion of TF items have been mined. I think the boss tables were finished in an internal build. Maybe we will be lucky?

Btw how awesome would it be if a Thunderforge is broke like firestones and 10 mans see 5X more then 25s. Big OOPS 2.0 incoming? Of course the concession after that blunder would have to be 2-3 more item drops in 25s or 100% TF drop to compensate.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 03:10 AM ----------



Push new DPS buffs couple hours before patch. Sound logic!

Since when does blizzard ever use logic? "RET HAS MORE PLAYERS THEREFOR MONKS NEED BUFFS"

Also, I believe 25 has a lot higher drop rate. At least that's how it seemed on PTR, and I think they've said that somewhere too.

[Deleted]

Gz blizzard I suppose DK buffs are because they are underpresented as dps class ... /facepalm

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Since when does blizzard ever use logic? "RET HAS MORE PLAYERS THEREFOR MONKS NEED BUFFS"

Also, I believe 25 has a lot higher drop rate. At least that's how it seemed on PTR, and I think they've said that somewhere too.

from PTR we had thunderforged drops on 1/3 of our loot iircc, might be higher.

[Prometheous]

Gz blizzard I suppose DK buffs are because they are underpresented as dps class ... /facepalm

Well obviously it's because unholy is better in PvP and they need to buff frost so they're better in PvP. Don't forget that ret is OP and should be ignored because we don't want them to faceroll glad... even though there is only a handful of glad rets this season.

We just need to keep suggesting and pushing on the feedback forums.

[Runewrath]

Still no last minute changes to Ret AoE. Not to mention GC said ret was equal with frost single target, so with these buffs he's saying that frost deserves to be far above ret in not just Cleave/AoE but single target. Maybe I am crazy for saying no when my guild asked if I wanted to reroll to my DK.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Still no last minute changes to Ret AoE. Not to mention GC said ret was equal with frost single target, so with these buffs he's saying that frost deserves to be far above ret in not just Cleave/AoE but single target. Maybe I am crazy for saying no when my guild asked if I wanted to reroll to my DK.

yes you were.

[Deleted]

Are we that crazy if we just love this spec above all others and we cling to the hopes of shinier moments? Are we selfish being stubborn to play it in the detriment of the guild interest ??

[Prometheous]

After playing around with simcraft, things are looking grim. Given, our damage is higher (but uhh, that's because the gear got better) we are still no where near being good.

[Peking_Man]

I hope nobody agrees with the two above posters. Retribution paladins were the rock stars this patch (with the best initial burst). Most of us (the good of us atleast) were topping charts regularly

[Deleted]

Oh my, please don't feed the troll or this thread might go down for good :/

5.2 : we still got a few buffs and our 2min AW makes us gain free damage with our 4pt14 for the early normal mode. They didn't punish our buffs by payback so we still must be doing a little better.
Am I the only one who thinks that SoR should be up-scaled a little ?

Sad the polearm is trashloot

As for trinket, Feathers seems tricky to evaluate and Sparks and Primordius seems BiS for most encounters

[Prometheous]

I hope nobody agrees with the two above posters. Retribution paladins were the rock stars this patch (with the best initial burst). Most of us (the good of us atleast) were topping charts regularly

I'm glad you called me out.

Looking at most of the fights and rankings on WorldofLogs.com, you may notice that the number 1 ranked ret for any given fight isn't near the top 200 of any of the fights. This doesn't say much but it gives you an idea that with great RNG and high skill, we're still no where near being "rock stars".

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html Looking at the simcraft for heroic t14 you may notice, while it may be hard to read, that ret is actually second from the bottom. Now, I don't personally consider that "rock star" status but depending on who you raid with that may or may not be correct. You might want to actually look outside of your raid group for an accurate comparison. Furthermore, claiming that we were actually a great class this patch shows me that you have no idea what you're actually talking about and I am wasting my time by posting this but you caught me at a bad time.

If you'd like to know more, I can show you the thousands of iterations of simcraft I've ran myself to prove to you just how wrong you are.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 03:43 PM ----------

Oh my, please don't feed the troll or this thread might go down for good :/

5.2 : we still got a few buffs and our 2min AW makes us gain free damage with our 4pt14 for the early normal mode. They didn't punish our buffs by payback so we still must be doing a little better.
Am I the only one who thinks that SoR should be up-scaled a little ?

Sad the polearm is trashloot

As for trinket, Feathers seems tricky to evaluate and Sparks and Primordius seems BiS for most encounters

Im convinced that the Feather is just going to be the "eh I guess ill use it since it dropped" trinket until we can get a Sparks and Primordius trinket. The proc on it seems rather silly, only getting 2 seconds of the full buff makes it... well bad.

Im almost sure that a 2/2 DMF trinket would almost be better, if not actually better.