Patch 5.4 PTR - Build 17331 - Hunter buffs are here!

[Windthorn]

Some of you guys that have rogues on their 25 man team maybe able to give opinion on the new CD trinket. Our rogue was saying that the trinket would boost his DPS by around 85K running shadow craft. As we run an EPGP system our other hunter would be in priority should it drop. I like the EPGP system, yes not all systems are perfect but should the hunter pass and give rogue priority for what is a hunter BiS trinket also or just go with the system as its intended to work?

[Deleted]

These buffs are nothing, maybe a 3k dps increase for single target. If hunters are doing bad on the PTR they wont do anything to help us.

[Megabloks]

Some of you guys that have rogues on their 25 man team maybe able to give opinion on the new CD trinket. Our rogue was saying that the trinket would boost his DPS by around 85K running shadow craft. As we run an EPGP system our other hunter would be in priority should it drop. I like the EPGP system, yes not all systems are perfect but should the hunter pass and give rogue priority for what is a hunter BiS trinket also or just go with the system as its intended to work?

It is BiS for BM hunters, I'm not sure if it would still be an 85k dps increase for the rogue with the t15 4pc nerf next tier though.

[Windthorn]

It is BiS for BM hunters, I'm not sure if it would still be an 85k dps increase for the rogue with the t15 4pc nerf next tier though.

Yes I'm aware its BiS for us but wanted to know how good it is for combat rogues, not that i'll pass if I do get it or the other hunter gets it but apparently its a huge DPS increase for combat rogues.

[Insanyti]

I know I'm late to the PTR testing party, but I'm getting ready to test what others have concluded so far and make some decisions regarding shot/ability priority of my own.

One question I have before beginning (though I'm hoping to figure this out with testing too - but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the subject) has to do with Haste no longer affecting RPPM gear. As a BM Hunter I was kinda shocked to see my DPS skyrocket when I started reforging Haste>Crit>Mastery, since Haste hadn't really been useful since the 1.6 sec cobra shot cast time plateau of late Cata raiding. The last I checked, and all sources seemed to agree, there was/is currently no soft Haste cap or plateaus as there were in Cata. Will this still hold true through the upcoming patch? Will Haste once more be the secondary stat that I throw away whenever I can, or does it still have significant importance? Has any BM Hunter (or any spec for that matter) found on the PTR what they consider the best balancing of our three secondary stats? As I said before I do plan to try and test this out for myself, but I'd like to hear other voices and experiences on the subject.

Also, would someone be able to explain to me why the 1.6 sec cast time of Cobra Shot Haste Cap stopped applying? What was it about the way Hunters were changed that made this no longer necessary? I'm wanting to get a better understanding of the different relationships primary and secondary stats have with Hunter Shots and Abilities.

Thank you in advance for any thought given to my ramblings! lol

[Deleted]

checking shadowcraft the average gain from the normal AoC against HC juju is around 18-20k dps on a moderately geared combat rogue (545). While for a BM hunter it is around 5k from HC juju. Well it's not 85k but it is a really noticeable amount, plus the reduction on Smoke bomb being a raid wide benefit. Personally I will pass it to our 2 rogues without any doubt

One question I have before beginning (though I'm hoping to figure this out with testing too - but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the subject) has to do with Haste no longer affecting RPPM gear. As a BM Hunter I was kinda shocked to see my DPS skyrocket when I started reforging Haste>Crit>Mastery, since Haste hadn't really been useful since the 1.6 sec cobra shot cast time plateau of late Cata raiding. The last I checked, and all sources seemed to agree, there was/is currently no soft Haste cap or plateaus as there were in Cata. Will this still hold true through the upcoming patch? Will Haste once more be the secondary stat that I throw away whenever I can, or does it still have significant importance? Has any BM Hunter (or any spec for that matter) found on the PTR what they consider the best balancing of our three secondary stats? As I said before I do plan to try and test this out for myself, but I'd like to hear other voices and experiences on the subject.

Also, would someone be able to explain to me why the 1.6 sec cast time of Cobra Shot Haste Cap stopped applying? What was it about the way Hunters were changed that made this no longer necessary? I'm wanting to get a better understanding of the different relationships primary and secondary stats have with Hunter Shots and Abilities.

haste plateaus "dissapeared" for 2 reasons. First is that we have a lot more fluid focus income that in early cata were you would want to stick to the 757 haste cap. We have now a lot more focus sources, rendering our old cycles obsolete due to all the freedom we have now in when and how to spend focus. Second, haste now gives a lot more benefits than it did back in cata. The top one is RPPM effects.

One thing that people seems to miss is that not all the RPPM effects will be unaffected by haste coming 5.4, only trinkets. Meta will be affected, legendary cape will be affected, and our current tier bonuses will be affected. You can argue that we will change the tier bonuses quite fast, but as long as they last it is worth mentioning it. Haste will still be a very good stat for BM, despite of the RPPM nerf. Sims indicate that haste is better for some people and crit for others, but we will see it as soon as we get the new bonuses and trinkets. Personally I still see haste as the best stat, and as long as I don't need to run SV for any boss I will keep haste>cirt

[Megabloks]

checking shadowcraft the average gain from the normal AoC against HC juju is around 18-20k dps on a moderately geared combat rogue (545). While for a BM hunter it is around 5k from HC juju. Well it's not 85k but it is a really noticeable amount, plus the reduction on Smoke bomb being a raid wide benefit. Personally I will pass it to our 2 rogues without any doubt

I do believe they removed smoke bomb and replace it with sprint.

[Saoron]

I know I'm late to the PTR testing party, but I'm getting ready to test what others have concluded so far and make some decisions regarding shot/ability priority of my own.

One question I have before beginning (though I'm hoping to figure this out with testing too - but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the subject) has to do with Haste no longer affecting RPPM gear. As a BM Hunter I was kinda shocked to see my DPS skyrocket when I started reforging Haste>Crit>Mastery, since Haste hadn't really been useful since the 1.6 sec cobra shot cast time plateau of late Cata raiding. The last I checked, and all sources seemed to agree, there was/is currently no soft Haste cap or plateaus as there were in Cata. Will this still hold true through the upcoming patch? Will Haste once more be the secondary stat that I throw away whenever I can, or does it still have significant importance? Has any BM Hunter (or any spec for that matter) found on the PTR what they consider the best balancing of our three secondary stats? As I said before I do plan to try and test this out for myself, but I'd like to hear other voices and experiences on the subject.

Also, would someone be able to explain to me why the 1.6 sec cast time of Cobra Shot Haste Cap stopped applying? What was it about the way Hunters were changed that made this no longer necessary? I'm wanting to get a better understanding of the different relationships primary and secondary stats have with Hunter Shots and Abilities.

Thank you in advance for any thought given to my ramblings! lol

Imo it will be crit > haste > mastery for SV and crit=haste > mastery for BM.. haste is still decent.. and they only removed the haste scaling of double dipping rppm items such as trinkets that proc agi etc.. as in both the proc chance and the proc itself benefits from haste (more haste = more attacks during that agi proc = more dps).. meta/cloak/2and4pc still are affected by haste.. And so long as blink strikes is still the best option for any spec, haste will be a good stat..

I'll probably stick to haste > crit > mastery initially for BM while I still have the t15 2pc and 4pc.. and then drop some haste for some crit once I make the switch to t16..

1.66 was the plateau before cuz it was a fixed rotation back then.. fit this many cobras and AS into the signature shot cd.. Now with all these new abilities, that no longer applies.. as you can't have a fixed rotation anymore.. it changes each time you respec into barrage or take Amoc or etc etc..

[Insanyti]

Pichuca and Saoran - Thank you both for your wonderful replies! They completely made sense to me and gave me exactly what I needed! <3 Much love and internet cookies for you both.

I only started raiding towards the end of Cata, so I've been trying to soak up as much information on Hunters and all that affects them as I can.

I am also behind on the information on the slight nerf to haste no longer affecting the RPPM trinkets. It's good to hear it was only the ToT trinkets.
(I apologize in advance if any question I ask seems 'simple', but I figure I'd rather look silly asking and learn than stay ignorant. ) Looking at the T16 set bonuses, it looks as though Haste won't have too much to do with them, save gaining focus for Arcane Shots and offensive abilities during BW...correct? So once geared, only the meta gem and legendary cloak will be RPPM for us?

I know Hunter stats are shared with our pets, but if I read the information before on my next question I don't remember the answers I found. How much does Haste affect our pets? Is it a great stat for them that also increases the rate at which THEY regenerate focus?

[Deleted]

I know Hunter stats are shared with our pets, but if I read the information before on my next question I don't remember the answers I found. How much does Haste affect our pets? Is it a great stat for them that also increases the rate at which THEY regenerate focus?

There are many benefits and ramifications from pet's haste. Pet focus regen is 125% of the hunter's regen, (hunter base focus regen is 4, for pet is 5). More haste means more auto attack, more basic attacks (claw, bite), and more Wild Hunt uptime (when the pet is above 50 focus basic attacks deal double damage and cost double focus). More Basic Attacks means more frenzy stacks (more uptime on Focus Fire), and more Invigoration proccs,so more focus for the hunter. More focus on the hunter means more Arcane shots, more arcane shots means more Cobra Strikes proccs (each charge causes your next two pet Basic attacks to crit).

[Deleted]

You forgot Go for the Throat. Auto attack crits give your pet 15 focus. So more auto attacks = more crits = more pet focus.

[Deleted]

I was talking about the benefits originated from pet's focus regen alone. But yes, GftT benefits from haste overall, and the only passive that benefits from crit too.

[tyrindor]

I show a 7k DPS increase over the last build as BM, bringing it 7k below live DPS (was 14k below). After testing the 25M heroics with all 13/13H people, mostly guildies, I still feel we need another 2-3% buff or some type of improved cleaving. Our DPS starts to fall behind above 550 or so. We need more scaling and more effective cleave against 2-3 targets, our single target damage seems fine.

Instead of a number increase i'd like to see:
- Explosive shot doing small amounts explosive damage to surrounding enemies.
- Beast Cleave duration increased, however does less damage and is also refreshed by Cobra Shot allowing us to keep it up 100% with a proper single target rotation after the initial Multi-shot.
- I don't like having explosive trap in the normal rotation. BA was added for this reason, and they seem to have forgotten that. Making these tweaks and maybe even removing explosive trap would maybe be better. I've never been in favor of trap damage, they should be utility. Give us a trap that does something unique for hunters that is strictly utility rated.

[Deleted]

Tyrindor, I agree, I'd also suggest;
Buff to Mastery, mainly on SV. Enough to boost our scaling, not enough to bring it above crit/haste. By the buff not being enough to place it above crit/haste it means we will still reforge out of it but gear with mastery won't look quite so unattractive to us and those little bit of mastery we are left with will still mean something...

[Redanqt]

Some of you guys that have rogues on their 25 man team maybe able to give opinion on the new CD trinket. Our rogue was saying that the trinket would boost his DPS by around 85K running shadow craft. As we run an EPGP system our other hunter would be in priority should it drop. I like the EPGP system, yes not all systems are perfect but should the hunter pass and give rogue priority for what is a hunter BiS trinket also or just go with the system as its intended to work?

There was a Bug on Shadowcraft where you could tweak your DPS up to 218 ~ million this was allso affecting normal dps Simulations there, so no its not 85k dps anymore it's around 15-18k.

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crit=haste > mastery for BM.. haste is still decent..

From what i simmed with an updated Simulationcraft all Reforge Plots showed Haste>=Mastery>Crit, not sure if theres a evaluation Bug with the KC Buffs that could cause Mastery so sim so high.

[Tehterokkar]

There was a Bug on Shadowcraft where you could tweak your DPS up to 218 ~ million this was allso affecting normal dps Simulations there, so no its not 85k dps anymore it's around 15-18k.

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From what i simmed with an updated Simulationcraft all Reforge Plots showed Haste>=Mastery>Crit, not sure if theres a evaluation Bug with the KC Buffs that could cause Mastery so sim so high.

SimC is wonky. But the KC buff is nowhere near to bring Mastery as the best stat. Even the Blink Strikes buff(which was HUGE for BM) didn't change a thing regarding crit vs. mastery in T15.

For universal reforge, Crit > Haste > Mastery will be the best in T16. Crit is more favored for SV while BM has Crit and Haste at equal(at least until we get rid of T15 2/4pc).

Also remember, with our T16 2pc, Rapid Fire will have a nice uptime, meaning we can put off more AS and overall more instants during an encounter(faster cobra shot cast = less time spent getting focus = more instants)

[Optio82]

It will be interesting once 5.4 goes live that is for sure. Really curious to see this supposed Arcane buff - but sorta reads like a nerf to me.

[Redanqt]

It is both ad nerf and a buff, because your burst dps is going to increase as least as bm because you had to much focus to even spent, but outside of bw its more a nerf.

[Tehterokkar]

It is both ad nerf and a buff, because your burst dps is going to increase as least as bm because you had to much focus to even spent, but outside of bw its more a nerf.

QoL change, we are focus capping so much at times(esp. if using Fervor and have a Haste CD up)

[Perrito]

It's only a DPS gain if you where so far from the boss that the GCD came up before KS hit the boss, if not then it doesn't matter how close you are to the boss.

the more you delay your 2nd KS the more the cd on it extend. on top of that time wasting waiting on it to come back. if you fit in another shot while you are are it you adding at least 1 gcd or 1 sec into the cd. wich is a dps loss.

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1) The buff to AMoC/Lynx Rush and the Arcane Shot buff have for the most part offset the dps gain of Readiness (Surv is fine, BM is still probably nerfed by the loss).

2) The RPPM nerf hit every class and should be undone once we start getting the new trinkets since it barely, if at all, affected our meta gem and tier bonuses.

Unless I am missing something important, how does the RPPM nerf affect us, and other classes, much beyond the first week or two. Once Bad Juju and Soul Charm are replaced, the nerf has little impact on us.

we use active effective haste cd, as bm you will see a bigger loss vs sv why because focus fire. this allowed us to get more uptimes on the trinkets. the RPPM dosnt affect everyone the same.

it wont affect ele shaman as us. they gcd cap and stop stacking haste. it wont affect boomkings they get 5k+ or 10k+ depending what plateau they are working on it. i dont know if you get it or not, ppl stack haste because is good for them, we stacked haste because it was good for the trinkets wich in turn give us more agility on top of the side benefit like more regen, more pet regen, more pet attacks more autoattacks.

the buff to AMoC/Lynx are nerfs to readiness. both are nerfs, you still forgot glaive toss/barrage, 2nd bw if you are BM and 2nd rapid fire and dire beast. it maybe not be that huge of a deal for survival but for bm is diferent.

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Yes I'm aware its BiS for us but wanted to know how good it is for combat rogues, not that i'll pass if I do get it or the other hunter gets it but apparently its a huge DPS increase for combat rogues.

85k dps increase for 1 ítem is bs. i think that was his point.