Welfare Legendary

[khalltusk]

Legendaries post vanilla were always "welfare" in the sense that little to no extra effort was required to obtain them outside of "raid this dungeon".

The only difference is that very few people had them back in the day, and now everyone has one. Imho the cloak should have been epic to reflect that, since item color only really indicates one thing: rarity.

Item colour was used back in Vanilla to show gear power as Ilevel was not shown. Greens for quest items/random drops Blues for dungeon/higher quality loot and epics for random world drops and high end PVE/PVP loot. Now it is only used to show item power nothing more.

Vanilla legendarys were pretty well fare aside from the crafting required which if you were poor or in a small guild would be a bit of a hassle to get.

[vep]

Name one legendary you had to be good to get? Other than the bow based on above reasons?

Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros and Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker. They both required you to kill Ragnaros who was pretty hard. Thunderfury required you also to get into BWL to get the Ingots plus do another raid boss to finish the quest.
Killing Ragnaros and Thunderaan wasn't really extremely challenging but it still was, at least somewhat, hard.

Warglaives of Azzinoth required you to kill Illidan. Which was something a minority of people managed to do.

Thori'dal - well, you've described that one. And yes, it was overtuned but even if it wasn't there still wouldn't be many people who got to see KJ.


The point of Vanilla WoW legendaries wasn't that they took skill to obtain. They took time and serious dedication. No LFR bullshit.

[Sqeen]

Lol no it doesnt dont split hairs.

Work in IRL for most people is a random time consuming activity. Work for this legendary is time consuming and thus can be described as work. What you confuse it with is difficulty/skill level. Thats all. FYI raiding MC was only time consuming once it was on farm so piss off with thunderfury as a comparison it was not HARD to get it was only time consuming (considering the bosses required for the drops were easy and you only needed elementium which you could buy if you had the gold or just farm trash in BWL for.

I really don't want to break a fight loose but for MC you actually needed 30+ not being afk and you also had to farm the arcanite bars which you could not "easily" buy on AH. Back in that time you barely had the money to buy your epic mount and for getting all the mats you also had to clear a lot in BWL which was hard for approx. 80% server population and a guild who was contributing mats.

The legendary cloak can be aquired by doing 1 boss a week which takes about 20 minutes to do if you are ultra lazy. I am not saying that overall the cloak isn't a grind too, I am just saying that it is way easier to obtain then the other legendaries were and spending 20 minutes a week is not "hard work".

[Yarathir]

Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros and Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker. They both required you to kill Ragnaros who was pretty hard. Thunderfury required you also to get into BWL to get the Ingots plus do another raid boss to finish the quest.
Killing Ragnaros and Thunderaan wasn't really extremely challenging but it still was, at least somewhat, hard.

Warglaives of Azzinoth required you to kill Illidan. Which was something a minority of people managed to do.

Thori'dal - well, you've described that one. And yes, it was overtuned but even if it wasn't there still wouldn't be many people who got to see KJ.


The point of Vanilla WoW legendaries wasn't that they took skill to obtain. They took time and serious dedication. No LFR bullshit.

Ragnaros.. hard.. my god. xD


But eh, back to the subject at hand. Old legendaries were an addition. You didn't kill Illidan to get the legendary. You got the legendary because you killed Illidan and you were lucky.


That isn't legendary. At least, it isn't to me.

[Zuben]

I think this model is how legendaries should be, as they're strongly lore-related. I hated how I couldn't experience Fangs of the Father -questline, which pretty much introduced Wrathion to us post-birth. Watching the video they did of it was dandy, but I still would've liked to play through it myself. And even though MoP-legendary isn't hard it's long as hell, it takes determination to see your character through all the phases.

[vep]

Ragnaros.. hard.. my god. xD


But eh, back to the subject at hand. Old legendaries were an addition. You didn't kill Illidan to get the legendary. You got the legendary because you killed Illidan and you were lucky.


That isn't legendary. At least, it isn't to me.

Because you had Ragnaros on farm in Vanilla, right?


And legendary is just that, honestly. Legendary is a rarity like epic, rare, uncommon and common. If everyone has a legendary, it's not rare.

[khalltusk]

I really don't want to break a fight loose but for MC you actually needed 30+ not being afk and you also had to farm the arcanite bars which you could not "easily" buy on AH. Back in that time you barely had the money to buy your epic mount and for getting all the mats you also had to clear a lot in BWL which was hard for approx. 80% server population and a guild who was contributing mats.

The legendary cloak can be aquired by doing 1 boss a week which takes about 20 minutes to do if you are ultra lazy. I am not saying that overall the cloak isn't a grind too, I am just saying that it is way easier to obtain then the other legendaries were and spending 20 minutes a week is not "hard work".

Not sure how it worked in your guilds but on my old server if you won the items the guilds had enough items in their G bank to get these items made (we had enough for several thunder furys and about 4 hammer of rags in our G bank. It was very easy and like I said unless you were in a small guild it was not that difficult to get).

As for 30+ people not being afk, Vanilla raiding in MC we split out raid into two teams of 20 at the start one lot went to luci rest went to gehennas. the bosses in there are a joke even back then it was tank and spank with decursing for most of the bosses.

These cloaks are harder to get than the Vanilla ones 100% (discounting RNG) its not even debatable sorry. You have to get 40 trillium bars kill several world bosses (Nalak pvp world boss and celestials) have to farm wisdom and power sigils secrets of the empire and the other ones from tot that I cant remember off the top of my head. You then have to kill the final boss in both ToES and ToT. Oh and you had to get exalted with black prince aka grinding mobs which I hate doing....

Thunder fury required I think 40 arcanite bars which were expensive and ofc the elementium but if you were in a raiding guild that was worth a damn you'd have those materials as most guilds I knew back then had people sending all of this to the Gbank while the ingots from BWL were sent to the Gbank anyway. Hammer of rag you had groups farming BRD for blood of the mountain if I remember right as it was an ingredient in making the hammer (my memory may not be right on this!)

Seriously it is not even remotely as grindy as this one is.

[Yarathir]

Because you had Ragnaros on farm in Vanilla, right?


And legendary is just that, honestly. Legendary is a rarity like epic, rare, uncommon and common. If everyone has a legendary, it's not rare.

Just like how when everyone has an epic, it's not epic, right? Plus, not everyone has a legendary. That exaggeration doesn't help your case. Not even a little bit.


And no, I didn't have him on farm. I started playing in TBC. But all of MC was a yawnfest in terms of mechanics. If you want to talk about boring raids that did not require skill at all, you can put MC at the frontlines.


In fact, I'd say it's only Naxxramas that required considerable skill that still holds up nowadays.

[khalltusk]

Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros and Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker. They both required you to kill Ragnaros who was pretty hard. Thunderfury required you also to get into BWL to get the Ingots plus do another raid boss to finish the quest.
Killing Ragnaros and Thunderaan wasn't really extremely challenging but it still was, at least somewhat, hard.

Warglaives of Azzinoth required you to kill Illidan. Which was something a minority of people managed to do.

Thori'dal - well, you've described that one. And yes, it was overtuned but even if it wasn't there still wouldn't be many people who got to see KJ.


The point of Vanilla WoW legendaries wasn't that they took skill to obtain. They took time and serious dedication. No LFR bullshit.

The only issue you have is with the difficulty in the raid, I can understand this but on the other hand just wash my hands with it. The cloak is a personal effort and Imo while being legendary it should have a Heroic Normal and LFR version. so you can see how you got it.

[Vankrys]

And no, I didn't have him on farm. I started playing in TBC. But all of MC was a yawnfest in terms of mechanics. If you want to talk about boring raids that did not require skill at all, you can put MC at the frontlines.
.

obviously, with 10 more level, 5 times more health and dps, and ignoring the fire base damage, ragnaros can indeed be easy. With a mix fire resist and MC gear on a 60 toon, it did requires some trial and error, was not as straight forward as you may think.

[Yarathir]

obviously, with 10 more level, 5 times more health and dps, and ignoring the fire base damage, ragnaros can indeed be easy. With a mix fire resist and MC gear on a 60 toon, it did requires some trial and error, was not as straight forward as you may think.

Just saying that mechanics make up the majority of it, and MC was a snore in comparison with raids nowadays. I wasn't talking from the viewpoint that I did MC in TBC. Of course it's easy when you overgear it; anything is. But MC's mechanics were already a snore before that. Again, if you want to go with "prestige" (which is a term I hate when applied to a game because it is just silly imo.) then Naxxramas is the only vanilla raid that really applies. In turn, that makes Atiesh one of the most "prestigious" legendaries.

[Deleted]

Personally prefer the old legendary models.

With that being said, I'd much prefer the legendary to give raid buff procs rather than personal dps else you either balance classes with the legendary in mind and end up with people really far ahead / behind depending on whether they have the legendary or not.

The whole raid had to put in the effort to get the legendaries so it rewards everyone's efforts (beyond raid dps going up slightly from one or two individuals).

[Sar-]

Legendaries post vanilla were always "welfare" in the sense that no extra effort was required to obtain them outside of "raid this dungeon".

The only difference is that very few people had them back in the day, and now everyone has one. Imho the cloak should have been epic to reflect that, since item color only really indicates one thing: rarity.

Item colour denotes one thing and one thing only: Item Quality and stat budget for the tier it's released in. Nothing about rarity AT ALL. Otherwise a lot of the frequently sought and hard to get transmog gear would be purple, not green, surely?

To all those butthurts whining about "Welfare Legendary" gear: ITEM COLOUR = QUALITY NOT RARITY. GET THE DEFINITION RIGHT BEFORE BITCHING ABOUT IT.

I also find it absolutely fucking hilarious that some of those bitching about how "easy" to obtain this supposedly "Welfare" legendary was don't even have it, because they "cba".

LOL! Like it was beneath you, you idiots.

[Beyond2]

Here's why people are upset: Legendaries were exclusive to organized raiders, and even then you had to select a single person to receive it. This vastly reduced the number of them available.

The catch with that model is, it's often out of the player's hands if they can even do the quest. Are you in an organized raiding guild? If no, too bad, your character isn't able to get it.

Oh you are in a guild? Well are you on a team that can clear the instance for the items/quests? No? too bad, your character isn't able to get it.

Oh, you're in a guild, and you are on a good team. Do you have the seniority or raw output that the raid picks you? No? Too bad, you can't get it, even if you wanted to AND are raiding.

Frankly, that model sucks. The hardest part of getting those legendaries wasn't the raiding part, it was sucking off the GM / Raid Leader and brown nosing until you got selected for the items. The "only one person per raid group" restriction kept it exclusive, but it also meant you had to be popular to get it.


And that's assuming of course the GM's wife/girlfriend or best friend doesn't play the class the legendary is for. "Sorry Beyond2, but you see, Kytira has been raiding with us for three weeks longer than you so we're giving it to her"


It's never been hard to get a questline legendary if you raided. The content just wasn't difficult, it was grindy and you had limits as to how many people could do it. That hardly makes the cloak not legendary.

[Vzz]

Item colour denotes one thing and one thing only: Item Quality and stat budget for the tier it's released in. Nothing about rarity AT ALL. Otherwise a lot of the frequently sought and hard to get transmog gear would be purple, not green, surely?

To all those butthurts whining about "Welfare Legendary" gear: ITEM COLOUR = QUALITY NOT RARITY. GET THE DEFINITION RIGHT BEFORE BITCHING ABOUT IT.

I also find it absolutely fucking hilarious that some of those bitching about how "easy" to obtain this supposedly "Welfare" legendary was don't even have it, because they "cba".

LOL! Like it was beneath you, you idiots.

Hi,

how do you explain such categorization in the AHouse? (where color=rarity)

[Slant]

Because I can't be bothered to do pvp, let alone play the game anymore when I'm not raiding. (I'm looking at you dailys)

I feel you. But you have to admit to being stubborn, too. I don't usually PvP and this took me no more than 30m and 2 BGs. If you spent the time you take to complain about it and just do it, you'd be long finished.

[XDurionX]

Real Welfare is having 24 people working just for you without any reward. This is the farthest away from the term welfare as a legendary could ever get, since everything is up to your individual responsibility.

[Fiftyonred]

Because the cloak is brain dead simple to get

and everyone could also get it first day to 5.4

in short you don't have to be good to get it

I wont be getting mine for a while because I can't be bothered to do the pvp part of the quest

Please explain how every other damn legendary was "hard to get" by your own definition, as obviously persistence is not defined as "hard" in your book.

Every other legendary required three things and three things only: A guild, RNG and persistence.

By your definition, removing RNG and 24 people to carry you, makes this item easier to get, and therefore less "worthy"?

Grow up......

[XDurionX]

It means nothing, 20=20, does not matter if it is 20 or 26, 20 bosses still gives a possibility of 20 secrets, you need 20
It means nothing, 12<14, does not matter if it is 14 or 20, 14 bosses still gives a possibility of 12 runestones, you need 12.
It means nothing, 0=0, the relevant memorable parts of the series are not in either raid.
It means nothing, my atlas loot was probably broken when i checked. Or maybe my wings flashed and distracted me. Either way it carries no consequence. Because if the number is y and the need is x and y>=x then y is big enough. Not, you know, big enough for anything to be remotely likely but rather big enough that there is a remote possibility.
It means nothing, your mouth still needs washing with soap, otherwise you should not kiss your mother with that mouth. Also you may need to talk to your doctor or pharmacist about pills. You know for the temper tantrums. Or the coming heart attack. One of the two. Keep nitroglycerin handy before posting. In fact consult your doctor before posting. Just to be safe :P

You´re just making yourself look stupid, by that logic i could tell you that dual warglaives required only 1 Illidan kill.

[Deleted]

The reason why people call it welfare legendary is because you can get it by regularly afking in LFR.
If the drops had been only from normal/heroic nobody would call it "welfare".

So while I personally disapprove of the choice to put the legendary items into LFR (why does someone who runs LFR exclusively need a 608 cloak?).
I can see why Blizzard did it (so people from LFR could switch to normal raiding should they choose to) and after all it is their game.

It doesn't change the fact that the cloaks are really common even amongst non-raiders and that's why people don't value them very highly.