Blizzcon: Warlock chat (NEW TALENTS IN FIRST POST!)

[Xanatas]

Yes, but on the other hand, the Mage ability requires you to stand inside the AoE for full damage which no one will do unless rooted/cc'ed.
I rather have an ability that's hard to land and does a ton of damage instead of an ability that's easier to land and does low damage.

In pve is a good spell (but warlock have rain of fire/F&B/seed ecc.... is pretty redudant without effect like disorient/slowing/KB)

In pvp is another spell uncastable in arena e vs melee and dont' help us. "Faling stars" is castable vs all target and in arena/under melee pressure.

2.6 sec is like a chaos bolt. And this design for affliction/demo is ugly (cataclysm is a fire spell, in affliction spread corruption.. ??? )

is better a lava surge/lava burst istant, not a 3 sec chaos bolt

[Dnusha]

Rumor: There won't be dot snapshoting anymore. #fail

upd. i'm so slow

[WildcatTM]

why felflame? cataclysm got an 1min CD, so it would be nothing compareable



wondering how the chaotic ressources will work. 40 demonic fury with each ToC? So perma meta and soulfire spam? that would be a complete remake of the playstyle just with one talent. and the destro one... atm 1 incinerate = 1-2 ember, 400% more would be 5-10 (or 6, if its just one additional emberbit on crits), would mean we are casting two incinerates followed by a chaosbolt...sounds quite boring.
Sure, numbers will get adjusted, but that much? oO If they stay with how those talents are working, they´ll need to change some keyparts of the speccs too

Something needs to go. I feel like that's one of the first. No directly linked to cataclsym.

[Count Zero]

At a certain point, we have to ask ourselves what we want more: higher skillcaps, or better class balance. The greater variance between "good" and "great" players means devs have to juggle the balancing act -- do they balance around what the best players will be doing, or what most players will be doing ? Balance around the best and the rest suffer. Balance around the most and the best are OP.

I'll have to reserve judgement until I see things in action. I think there should be -some- delineation based on ability to reach skillcap, but if it means it's easier this way to get all specs closer together in more situations ... yeah, I dunno, gotta see how things shake out

[Deleted]

Something needs to go. I feel like that's one of the first. No directly linked to cataclsym.

well, then I hope it´s not felflame. just think of archimondes darkness or mannoroths fury - what are you doing while moving?
There are some other abilities that need to go. for exmaple demo got WAY to much AoE spells. remove the damage component of carrion swarm, remove the meta version of felflame and remove immolationaura (hellfire instead)
remove rain of fire or add a glyph that changes it into a HoG like spell - it´s just annoying to place this rain of fire every 6-7 seconds. It just feels like a big downside during the FnB firestorm.
remove rain of fire from affli tree - when do we even use this crap?
remove drain life
remove curse of elements
remove twilight ward - it just feels way to weak and we already got that much defense pve wise, maybe buff other absorbs instead

[Deleted]

remove rain of fire from affli tree - when do we even use this crap?
remove drain life
remove curse of elements
remove twilight ward - it just feels way to weak and we already got that much defense pve wise, maybe buff other absorbs instead

I strongly agree with Coe removal, but everything else is a wrong decision, because you're not taking pvp into account. Drain life is very useful (both in bgs and arenas) for affliction, and twilight ward is a precious source of dmg absorption for all 3 specs.

[ldev]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post23415215

Take a look at the last line by Xyronic. Take it with a grain of salt.

He touches my warlock and oh I will find him.

[Deleted]

At a certain point, we have to ask ourselves what we want more: higher skillcaps, or better class balance. The greater variance between "good" and "great" players means devs have to juggle the balancing act -- do they balance around what the best players will be doing, or what most players will be doing ? Balance around the best and the rest suffer. Balance around the most and the best are OP.

Warlocks have generally been considered to have a relatively high skillcap, we've never been so overpowered that it was pants on head retarded (bar certain encounters that multidotting or destros sustained AOE broke and blizzards fuckup with UVLS and demo).

I don't think they should remove everything that makes a spec fun to play in the name of a balance shift that probably isn't effecting 90% of the playerbase.

I strongly agree with Coe removal, but everything else is a wrong decision, because you're not taking pvp into account. Drain life is very useful (both in bgs and arenas) for affliction, and twilight ward is a precious source of dmg absorption for all 3 specs.

I don't think COE should be removed, baking in the effect to a single target rotation might be an idea (like hunter mark), but I think leaving the spell in for AOE is fine. Not sure how that would mesh with other curses either.

At least we're not sacrificing COA for it like we used to.

[RaoBurning]

cataclysm is very very shitty talent... come on...

2.6 sec cast time is absurd, why all dps classes take istant/channel talent and warlock take ALWAYS long cast-time spell?

An AOE with long cast time without benefits like KB/disorient/stun/slow...


Look at "falling stars", new mage talents. Istant. Low CD. AOE. Another istant cast for mages. Another cast time spell for warlock.

Beat class homogenization, no?

[Deleted]

I don't think they should remove everything that makes a spec fun to play in the name of a balance shift that probably isn't effecting 90% of the playerbase.
I don't think COE should be removed, baking in the effect to a single target rotation might be an idea (like hunter mark), but I think leaving the spell in for AOE is fine. Not sure how that would mesh with other curses either.
At least we're not sacrificing COA for it like we used to.

There's no difference. Putting CoE on a single target spell or removing it and adding 5% magic dmg to all spells in game. What would be easier? Makes no sense filling tooltips with irrelevant information.

Imo, curses should only exist for pvp purposes.

[Deleted]

There's no difference. Putting CoE on a single target spell or removing it and adding 5% magic dmg to all spells in game. What would be easier? Makes no sense filling tooltips with irrelevant information.

Imo, curses should only exist for pvp purposes.

If it's being applied to every spell or just flat out removed, sure - but I was going under the assumption they'd be baked into abilities, so the classes that bring it retain that utility, in which case it DOES make a difference since I doubt they'll bake it into our AOE.

If it's being removed flat out, then eh. Not sure how I feel about that.

[a C e]

Beat class homogenization, no?

they have given hunters gosac, warr's life tap, moonkin a channel ability and priests a doom ability

[Deleted]

If it's being applied to every spell or just flat out removed, sure - but I was going under the assumption they'd be baked into abilities, so the classes that bring it retain that utility, in which case it DOES make a difference since I doubt they'll bake it into our AOE.

If it's being removed flat out, then eh. Not sure how I feel about that.

The deal is Blizzard adopted some time ago the philosophy of "bring the player not the class", which then would go against an action of leaving these buffs class specific. I mean, let's say 3 classes provide the same passive damage increase buff for the sake of that buff being active in a raid fight. If it's really about the player skill and not their class, then they would remove any minor details (like CoE), because they provide nothing special since there's always someone in a raid who can provide it (mostly).

Let's see how it goes, but whether it's removed or imbued into abilities, it's a win win

[Deleted]

I strongly agree with Coe removal, but everything else is a wrong decision, because you're not taking pvp into account. Drain life is very useful (both in bgs and arenas) for affliction, and twilight ward is a precious source of dmg absorption for all 3 specs.

my point is that we don´t need that much spells for the same things. remove drain life, buff other selfheals, remove twilightward, buff other absorbs instead.

@curse of elements: my thought was indeed that it´s just baked into our singletarget spells if the 5% spelldamage debuff won´t be completly removed from the game

[Deleted]

The deal is Blizzard adopted some time ago the philosophy of "bring the player not the class"

Sure, and as a 10man player I like that philosophy (though I've also seen it be a complete joke, I killed valiona and thelarion on heroic in T11 with a rogue I hit max level on 1 day earlier that I could barely play it was so much easier).

But I don't think it should mean that all class utility goes, by that logic we should remove buffs like spell haste (which is considerably harder to get than the magic debuff imo), kings or things like warrior banners, but what's left then?

Blizzard are screwing a heap of 10man guilds to move up to a 20man raid size, there's not a chance in hell that you'd be missing ANY buffs then unless you had a really skewed raid composition, removing things like COE if 10mans were still a viable size in endgame might make sense, but there's no need for spreading buffs / debuffs around more if 20 is going to be the only size, things like raid CDs are significantly more "bring the player" breaking than a buff which is a complete none-issue on anything over 10 players.

[Deleted]

my point is that we don´t need that much spells for the same things. remove drain life, buff other selfheals, remove twilightward, buff other absorbs instead.

Yup, I think you're completely right on that point, my perspective was just that those spells weren't a good example. Drain life is widely used on pvp as affliction (or even demo), because it's on demand healing without cd at the cost of damage (pretty balanced if you ask me). And you mentioned twilight ward due we "having too many defensive cds in pve", but it's not just all about pve. Trust me, the state of warlocks at this point (or should I say...ever) it's being trained by every melee in bgs. Also, we're pretty squishy in arenas if it wasn't for our self-healing/defensives.

Areas where we could cut spells:

- Affliction has way too many dots. Why not just remove corruption or agony and make us spend a bit more time on a filler (even though I hate MG)? Would make it easier to balance things in terms of dot power (which is subject to constant nerfs/buffs from blizzard).
- Curses (already mentioned) are useless in pve. They provide nothing but numbers, which isn't at all fun gameplay.

But I don't think it should mean that all class utility goes, by that logic we should remove buffs like spell haste (which is considerably harder to get than the magic debuff imo), kings or things like warrior banners, but what's left then?

What's left? Actual gameplay. Why would we want buffs which don't have actual impact on it? What's fun about making 1k dps because a teammate casted one spell in the beginning of the fight, or making 1k without your friend casting it? Not to mention spell haste/etc is even worse, because it's something you don't even have to cast.

Warrior's banner is a different subject, because it requires active gameplay. You apply it and it only lasts for a few seconds, meaning you need to think about WHEN to use it. That makes whole difference, is just like a healer using a defensive cooldown (like pw:barrier) on the raid.

For those still not convinced, read this analogy to see why non-temporary raid buffs should be gone of wow:

- Football players enter the field. Unless the referee raises his left arm in the beginning of the match, they can't run. So before every single game starts, they all look to the referee until he raises his left arm and they all start running for the rest of the game.

Why do we need for the referee to raise his arm? Can't we just integrate the act of "running" into the game, make it automatic? Why do we have to wait for a guy to show up and raise his arm every single game/fight to do something that ultimately doesn't need to be done?

[Deleted]

- Affliction has way too many dots. Why not just remove corruption or agony and make us spend a bit more time on a filler (even though I hate MG)? Would make it easier to balance things in terms of dot power (which is subject to constant nerfs/buffs from blizzard).
- Curses (already mentioned) are useless in pve. They provide nothing but numbers, which isn't at all fun gameplay.

Is that a joke?

So we apply 2 dots and channel MG? That's less gameplay than Ele shamen have, doesn't mesh with the interesting gameplay you talk about in relation to warrior banners (which is a decent point that I totally accept).

If anything I'd want to go back to the 5 dots we had in Naxx.
Juggling dots is significantly more interesting gameplay than spamming filler for a huge amount of your rotation.

[Deleted]

Is that a joke?

So we apply 2 dots and channel MG? That's less gameplay than Ele shamen have, doesn't mesh with the interesting gameplay you talk about in relation to warrior banners (which is a decent point that I totally accept).

If anything I'd want to go back to the 5 dots we had in Naxx.
Juggling dots is significantly more interesting gameplay than spamming filler for a huge amount of your rotation.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly, my fault. My point is keeping 4 dots up, or 3 dots up is ultimately the same in terms of damage. Why not reduce the amount of dots (especially now that snapshooting seems to be gone), and add something fresh to the rotation and make rotation less boring and more reactive?

[Schirmy]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly, my fault. My point is keeping 4 dots up, or 3 dots up is ultimately the same in terms of damage. Why not reduce the amount of dots (especially now that snapshooting seems to be gone), and add something fresh to the rotation and make rotation less boring and more reactive?

4 DoTs (Give me Siphon Life) with the Cata/Wrath Style Haunt and Drain Life filler pls and ty.

[Deleted]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly, my fault. My point is keeping 4 dots up, or 3 dots up is ultimately the same in terms of damage. Why not reduce the amount of dots (especially now that snapshooting seems to be gone), and add something fresh to the rotation and make rotation less boring and more reactive?

Oh right, that makes more sense.

Might be cool, though I really don't want to drop below the 3 dots we currently have, since the time I had most fun with my warlock was with 5. Each time we've lost one I've died a little inside.

But yeah, I can live with dot snapshotting going as long as we get something interesting in return. If snapshotting doesn't go, we get more dots or we get a new rotation ability like you propose, any is fine - as long as it makes the class engaging and interesting to play, I'm just worried we're not going to get that since they seem to want to simplify the spec more. I'm worried affliction is going the same way as destro (not that I feel ROF was good filler, but replacing it with nothing just made it too boring for me).

4 DoTs (Give me Siphon Life) with the Cata/Wrath Style Haunt and Drain Life filler pls and ty.

Yeah, I loved Cata / Wrath affliction. If we edge back towards that I'd be happy, though I'd have prefered dot snapshotting to be a part of that. With the item squish that seems to be coming then it really won't be gamebreakingly overpowered if it was left in, it should be a minor dps increase - not the huge thing we currently have thanks to blizzards stupid ilevel inflation and absurdly overpowered trinkets.