How is marksmanship?

[Solo mish]

Hey guys i have been away from wow for a few years and now im back and was wondering how marksmanship is? i have heard great things about bm and surv but have not heard anything about marksmanship and if its worth playing?

[PuppetShowJustice]

People don't talk about Marks because it's not worth talking about in PVE.

It's solid in PVP though.

[Deleted]

It is far behind the other two specs. Some claim it is good single target, but from the current rankings, it is still way behind SV and BM. Could be due to a lack of top hunters playing the spec, but it still can't really compete well. In Cleave/AoE situations it is terrible.

[Conjor]

It is far behind the other two specs. Some claim it is good single target, but from the current rankings, it is still way behind SV and BM. Could be due to a lack of top hunters playing the spec, but it still can't really compete well. In Cleave/AoE situations it is terrible.

People don't talk about Marks because it's not worth talking about in PVE.

It's solid in PVP though.

If you are ignorant of a specs performance, don't try to give advice on it.

@OP: Marks is competitive with all specs in single target situations. It only lacks in AoE. It is especially powerful if your weapon ilvl is higher than your average ilvl. You should not feel bad using it on any fight this tier, save Garrosh.

[Kissthebaby]

People don't talk about Marks because it's not worth talking about in PVE.

It's solid in PVP though.

This is rude. Marks is decent in pve and like conjor said which higher item level weapon it gets better and can be competitive. I have played it many times this tier and have been able to keep up with our other hunters playing bm or survival.

[Toffie]

This is rude. Marks is decent in pve and like conjor said which higher item level weapon it gets better and can be competitive. I have played it many times this tier and have been able to keep up with our other hunters playing bm or survival.

It's not rude, It's the truth. There is just no reason to go for MM in competitive PVE.

[Conjor]

It's not rude, It's the truth. There is just no reason to go for MM in competitive PVE.

You'd think when a top 3 US Hunter says that Marks is competitive, and uses it to progress on 3 end tier bosses, you'd believe him, or at least do some research to find out for yourself.

So no, it is not the truth. Marks has been competitive since the start of this patch.

[Kissthebaby]

It's not rude, It's the truth. There is just no reason to go for MM in competitive PVE.

Why not? if the person likes the spec and is does decent damage with the spec then they can play any spec they want. And all honesty competitive pve ended in November.

- - - Updated - - -

You'd think when a top 3 US Hunter says that Marks is competitive, and uses it to progress on 3 end tier bosses, you'd believe him, or at least do some research to find out for yourself.

So no, it is not the truth. Marks has been competitive since the start of this patch.

A top 4 us hunter seconds this post.

[Toffie]

You'd think when a top 3 US Hunter says that Marks is competitive, and uses it to progress on 3 end tier bosses, you'd believe him, or at least do some research to find out for yourself.

So no, it is not the truth. Marks has been competitive since the start of this patch.

I did do my research.

Just looking through logs here; http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...anship_Hunter/
US & EU logs 25 HC.

Immerseus

Survival; 400-490k DPS
Beast Mastery; 350-390k DPS
Marksmanship; 260-310k DPS

Fallen Protectors

Beast Mastery; 600-640k dps
Survival; 550-580k dps
Marksmanship; 400-460k dps

Norushen

Beast Mastery; 460-500k dps
Survival; 460-490k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Sha Of Pride

Survival; 480-520k dps
Beast Mastery; 490-510k dps
Marksmanship; 400-410k dps

Galakras

Beast Mastery; 500-530k dps
Survival; 470-490k dps
Marksmanship; 380-400k dps

Iron Juggernaut

Beast Mastery; 460-510k
Survival; 460-510k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Dark Shaman

Beast Mastery; 550-580k dps
Survival; 500-540k dps
Marksmanship; 410-440k dps

General Nazgrim

Beast Mastery; 600-680k dps
Survival; 600-700k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Malkorok

Beast Mastery; 480-500k dps
Survival; 470-480k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Spoils Of Pandaria

Beast Mastery; 400-430k dps
Survival; 400-430k dps
Marksmanship; 300-330k dps

Thok

Survival; 470-480k dps
Beast Mastery; 430-440k dps
Marksmanship; 390-410k dps

What does this tell us? That marksmanship is only OKAY on single target fights.

[Kissthebaby]

I did do my research.

Just looking through logs here; http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...anship_Hunter/
US & EU logs 25 HC.

Immerseus

Survival; 400-490k DPS
Beast Mastery; 350-390k DPS
Marksmanship; 260-310k DPS

Fallen Protectors

Beast Mastery; 600-640k dps
Survival; 550-580k dps
Marksmanship; 400-460k dps

Norushen

Beast Mastery; 460-500k dps
Survival; 460-490k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Sha Of Pride

Survival; 480-520k dps
Beast Mastery; 490-510k dps
Marksmanship; 400-410k dps

Galakras

Beast Mastery; 500-530k dps
Survival; 470-490k dps
Marksmanship; 380-400k dps

Iron Juggernaut

Beast Mastery; 460-510k
Survival; 460-510k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Dark Shaman

Beast Mastery; 550-580k dps
Survival; 500-540k dps
Marksmanship; 410-440k dps

General Nazgrim

Beast Mastery; 600-680k dps
Survival; 600-700k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Malkorok

Beast Mastery; 480-500k dps
Survival; 470-480k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Spoils Of Pandaria

Beast Mastery; 400-430k dps
Survival; 400-430k dps
Marksmanship; 300-330k dps

Thok

Survival; 470-480k dps
Beast Mastery; 430-440k dps
Marksmanship; 390-410k dps

What does this tell us? That marksmanship is only OKAY on single target fights.

You realize a lot these logs are cheesed to parse right, especially the aoe fights. Also not near as many people are playing marksman as the other 2 specs so there wont be as much competition or data. If every hunter was playing marksman the numbers would be closer.

an example of a fight with aoe components.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a4...15#Kisstehbaby

[Toffie]

Also not near as many people are playing marksman as the other 2 specs so there wont be as much competition or data. If every hunter was playing marksman the numbers would be closer.

And why do you think that Is ?

Method log, rogerbrown (MM) vs Pottm (BM)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

[Deleted]

If you are ignorant of a specs performance, don't try to give advice on it.

@OP: Marks is competitive with all specs in single target situations. It only lacks in AoE. It is especially powerful if your weapon ilvl is higher than your average ilvl. You should not feel bad using it on any fight this tier, save Garrosh.

Can you give any actual evidence of it being able to compete with BM/SV this tier from actual logs? Because I seem to hear all this talk of MM being able to compete single target yet I see no evidence of this being the case. You yourself are airing to people in this thread about you being a top 3 US hunter yet your parses as MM are far and away from SV/BM parses on primarily single target fights (Juggenaut/Malkorok). I'm not saying MM isn't viable to use on farm, but it definitely is not optimal compared to the other two specs.

[Kissthebaby]

And why do you think that Is ?

Method log, rogerbrown (MM) vs Pottm (BM)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6413&e=6683 heres one same fight.

[Conjor]

I did do my research.

Just looking through logs here; http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...anship_Hunter/
US & EU logs 25 HC.

Immerseus

Survival; 400-490k DPS
Beast Mastery; 350-390k DPS
Marksmanship; 260-310k DPS

Fallen Protectors

Beast Mastery; 600-640k dps
Survival; 550-580k dps
Marksmanship; 400-460k dps

Norushen

Beast Mastery; 460-500k dps
Survival; 460-490k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Sha Of Pride

Survival; 480-520k dps
Beast Mastery; 490-510k dps
Marksmanship; 400-410k dps

Galakras

Beast Mastery; 500-530k dps
Survival; 470-490k dps
Marksmanship; 380-400k dps

Iron Juggernaut

Beast Mastery; 460-510k
Survival; 460-510k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

Dark Shaman

Beast Mastery; 550-580k dps
Survival; 500-540k dps
Marksmanship; 410-440k dps

General Nazgrim

Beast Mastery; 600-680k dps
Survival; 600-700k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Malkorok

Beast Mastery; 480-500k dps
Survival; 470-480k dps
Marksmanship; 400-430k dps

Spoils Of Pandaria

Beast Mastery; 400-430k dps
Survival; 400-430k dps
Marksmanship; 300-330k dps

Thok

Survival; 470-480k dps
Beast Mastery; 430-440k dps
Marksmanship; 390-410k dps

What does this tell us? That marksmanship is only OKAY on single target fights.

... Right let's all pad. Cause that is what defines the progression potential of a spec right? How much you can AoE the adds? If you think that doing the most damage overall on a fight is the one and only factor defining the potential of a spec, you have a ways to go sir.

Can you give any actual evidence of it being able to compete with BM/SV this tier from actual logs?

You want anecdotal evidence? Sure, here's our US 3rd Klaxxi kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCfZAsPoI24
(we don't release logs from our progression kills, just look at the final recount). Oh look, is that an MM hunter on par with warlocks and warriors, in progression level gear, on the second last boss of the tier? Can't be, cause MM is way below the other specs, right?

[Toffie]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6413&e=6683 heres one same fight.

You are comparing "pottm's" alt (potm) at 560 ilvl with rogerbrown at 578 ilvl.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8178&e=8435

Rogerbrown (MM) = 397556 DPS
Pottm (BM) = 453095 DPS

= 13 % difference.

... Right let's all pad. Cause that is what defines the progression potential of a spec right? How much you can AoE the adds? If you think that doing the most damage overall on a fight is the one and only factor defining the potential of a spec, you have a ways to go sir.

I'm sorry but why are you limiting yourself playing MM when you could do MUCH better AOE damage and 10-16 % better single target damage as survival or beast mastery?

[Deleted]

... Right let's all pad. Cause that is what defines the progression potential of a spec right? How much you can AoE the adds? If you think that doing the most damage overall on a fight is the one and only factor defining the potential of a spec, you have a ways to go sir.



You want anecdotal evidence? Sure, here's our US 3rd Klaxxi kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCfZAsPoI24
(we don't release logs from our progression kills, just look at the final recount). Oh look, is that an MM hunter on par with warlocks and warriors, in progression level gear, on the second last boss of the tier? Can't be, cause MM is way below the other specs, right?

Due to the way other classes scale compared to hunters, I am not in the least bit surprised that a hunter, regardless of spec can compete with warlocks and warriors in lower end gear. If OP did have a decent weapon, with a lower item level, obviously MM would be a good choice, I agree. Once you start to reach higher end gear though, MM is falling far behind the other two specs, even in single target, as is shown by the logs on Malk/Jugg.

- - - Updated - - -

You are comparing "pottm's" alt (potm) at 560 ilvl with rogerbrown at 578 ilvl.

Made me chuckle :P

[Conjor]

You are comparing "pottm's" alt (potm) at 560 ilvl with rogerbrown at 578 ilvl.

I'm sorry but why are you limiting yourself playing MM when you could do MUCH better AOE damage and 10-16 % better single target damage as survival or beast mastery?

You assume it wasn't the best spec to play at the time?

How hard is it to believe that MM, under the right circumstances, is the best spec?

Let me paint a picture: You have a Heroic Wep that is 5 ilvls above your average ilvl. You have ToT level trinkets (no Harroms, TED, or AoC). What spec do you think will be the best? I'll save you the trouble and tell you: its MM.

So let me answer your question with another one: Why should I not play the best spec for my gear? Why should I play a spec with better AoE on a fight with NO AoE? Because what you are telling me is that I should have been playing a spec with lower potential just because "everyone else thinks they are better"?

Also, where are you getting this 10-16%? Cause I can pull numbers out of my rear too.

[Toffie]

Also, where are you getting this 10-16%? Cause I can pull numbers out of my rear too.

I'm sorry, but seems like you're in denial and just rude for no apparent reason at all. I presented you with the logs and all you have is your word and how YOU compare against your guild mates.

[Kissthebaby]

I'm sorry, but seems like you're in denial and just rude for no apparent reason at all. I presented you with the logs and all you have is your word and how YOU compare against your guild mates.

You presented 1 log of the number one guild in the world, I also showed logs on me playing marksman for one week and being competitive. If only after playing a spec I never play for one week and I am competitive then imagine how much I could improve if I played every week ( which i don't). Also you linked a log of malkarak well look at pottoms damage to adds compared to rogerbrown. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8178&e=8435 (include his crab)

[Conjor]

I'm sorry, but seems like you're in denial and just rude for no apparent reason at all. I presented you with the logs and all you have is your word and how YOU compare against your guild mates.

I'm sorry, but you seem to think that all parses on World of Logs are the most accurate source material we have for each specs potential. I present to you my experience within this tier of raiding, and all your give is a bunch of circle-jerking hunters who want to pad on bosses to get that shiny number next to their name on a website that won't live past this expansion.

And you honestly think that it's not worth comparing oneself to players in a top US guild? I have no response to that.

Too many people have opinions on things they know little about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they tend to have.