You guys remember Ret Paladins during the Wrath prepatch? Now THAT was some hilarious imbalance.
You guys remember Ret Paladins during the Wrath prepatch? Now THAT was some hilarious imbalance.
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Without a doubt, it's never been worse. Arenas are just a complete joke. Way too much CC, very poor balance (especially amongst healers), battle fatigue and base resilience have just not been tuned well at all.
If you play arena for a little you will quickly discover that Blizzard really don't care about it at all at the moment.
BECAUSE it was your first season!
There is no better MMO PvP experience in any game than in WoW. That's just a fact.
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and also: people will ALWAYS say that there is too much CC, even if there isn't, because every time they get killed in arenas, their healer was sitting a fear or a stun or w/e. That is just how the game works! To stop a healer from healing you will have to CC him.
You are mad because your healer was sitting a CC, NOT because there is too much CC in the game. If there was less CC, you would never be able to land a kill ever until one healer is oom...That's the alternative! Do you really want that?
Class balance =/= state of pvp
Class balance =/= state of pvp
This is the problem with this kind of question people think if their class was bad or good controls the state of how pvp overall was for the game at different time periods.
Example is cata wasn't as bad as some classes made it seem example healing only needed a 10% ms and outside of resto shaman was fine. When you take out the broken classes of each expansion and then look at pvp there is what pvp was. The state of mop is everyone has to much control and most of it coming at no real cost. Everyone has to much of everything in mop dmg and healing is so retarded 80% res is needed and people still die in 4-6 secs thats pretty bad.
The only real positives that mop has given us is they got pve gear out of pvp but it doesn't matter because dmg went full retard in pvp gear lol.
But on class balance the funny thing about mop is the class issues were most all caused by them this time around. Some examples we'll ignore any first season of expansion because every x.0 patch has been terrible. S8 casters what caused that? Scaling and pve gear. S11 rogues scaling and pve gear. Now lets look at mop S12 warriors and hunter and mages and spriest etc etc The season I point out s12 is most of these classes op'ness was from pvp only changes that blizzard made. Ok s13 rogues hunters more pvp only changes to over power classes. Remember when they changed rogue 4 set from 10 energy to 50 and said they need the burst as the reason?
Anyway s14 warriors again many pvp only changes to overpower them. If you can see the point now that mop showed a very large problem holinka and friends have no idea what they are doing with pvp every change every patch was for the worse either over nerfing or over buffing something. Before it was mostly pve gear and scaling with said gear now they mess things up because they think they are making the game better lol.
You should be very afraid what they will do given a whole expansion with what holinka added to the team.
Last edited by Wow; 2014-03-30 at 09:38 PM.
I agree for the most part with your assessment. Not blaming holinka for what is wrong though, I personally think he is doing a good job and they have done many things the pvp community has been asking for. The concept of WoW is that PVE dictates mostly how spells work/interact and what kind of damage they do. It's a bit too far fetched to hold the pvp guy responsible for that.
But when you say that everyone has too much of everything, I believe you are spot on. There is so much stupid shit in the game that it kills my enjoyment to play. A few random examples, and not saying that those respective classes are OP/UP, just things I find stupid:
- priests, druids, monks running around the map like race cars (everyone has slows and everyone has immunities and sprints and seem to be stuck in an arms race). Give a couple of specs a speed increase, a couple of others a slow, a few others a root and a few others an immunity.
- warrior control: interrupt, charge stun, mass spell reflect, reflect, shockwave, disrupting shout, stormbolt, fear, disarm ... that's what they can do in a simple 2v2 vs a caster
- druid symbiosis: it completely alters the gameplay
- hunter cc ... that's completely mindboggling
- subterfuge paired with insane burst ...
- I just played a 2s game as shaman vs a druid/warrior: I LoS the first cyclone, ground the 2nd, wind shear the 3rd and finally have to sit a full non-dr cyclone. Followed by a half and a short one. I mean I prevent it 3 times and still have to sit a full cc ... if one kicks / immunes a CC, the cc should be on dr.
- resto druids can become a dps when using hearth of the wild
- boomkins and to some extend ferals can off heal like a healer, you have to kill them 4 times before they are dead
- double death grip ... really I just grounded the first death grip, or knocked him back, 2nd DG has you with your balls anyway
...
all these things are so frustrating / annoying, and often it's a result of an arms race. I'll gladly deal with cata legendary rogues if I don't have to deal with all the above.
Well I look at this way they added holinka just for pvp and this expansion they made a lot of really bad pvp only changes every patch which they normally don't make many pvp only changes unless its to just nerf something. Now that kind of looks like it points to him however even if it doesn't it means the whole pvp team is trash and he is just a figure head.
Somehow I doubt the pve guys came up with things like lets give locks howl baseline and add even more cc to the game... Remember the original blood fear yea I'm doubting pve on that too. There's just way to many pvp only things to point fingers at pve. Did pve cause some issues? For sure but biggest issues were from things that were from pvp only changes combined with pve dmg buffs. Pve hasn't caused much issues other than unneeded dmg buffs for pvp most of the new abilities for this exp for pvp there are a few exceptions but yea...
So whether its holinka or their pvp team or combined efforts they are terrible and have no idea what to do for a good game. Pvp was better when they didn't try to make all these pvp only changes to all the classes. Mop is them trying in pvp they say they are trying for wod too be afraid very afraid.
Last edited by Wow; 2014-03-31 at 02:56 AM.
In terms of game system, its close to worst (the worst was the start of MoP). In terms of balance, it is probably the most balanced season ever. I don't see non-viable specs other than rets being complete garbage. Surely warriors and locks are OP as shit but we had uber classes every season.
Holinka wasn't around until a little into this expansion, so you can't blame him for retarded mechanics mop launched with like blood fear. Beyond that, I feel like he probably wasn't given enough influence over the game to improve it significantly. I'm not going to pretend he'd singlehandedly perfect the game given enough power, but he seems aware enough to come up with better than what live currently is.
If I were a betting man, I'd say that wow's developers collectively are still afraid of scaring away/confusing the raid finder crowd with frequent or major changes mid-expansion. Given that, Holinka would need to focus only on class balance and look the other way whenever it comes to poor mechanics. And you know what? Class balance really isn't that bad. Sure it could be a little better, but every class can be played to r1 as-is. The new expansion means class systems are being restructured, and now the pvp team will have a chance to give input when it's actually wanted. They won't get it perfect--they'll make a couple bad changes and miss a few opportunities for good ones--but I'd be surprised if the expansion isn't an improvement.
I think class balance isn't that bad. Sure, there's some specs (Arms/Frost/Windwalker) that are utterly and completely retarded, but in general the rest of the classes and specs are on parity. However, here's the problem. It's because most classes have been homogenized. Token stun, token defensive cooldown, token OMAGAWDBURST button and so on. There's little by way of variety in that sense. I'm hoping that Warlords brings a change to that because pre WoW, I played games to PVP. It's kind of not possible in WoW where your progress is set behind a gear wall and then tolerance-to-not-being-in-control-of-your-character wall. The latter being more painful. I dearly want a revamp so I can enjoy PVP more.
As a healer you're 80% of your time in any given arena match either, feared, stunned, dazed, cycloned, silenced eg.
Not fun at all.
Id rather larger mana costs for spells and the game end due to running out of da blue stuff than be unable to play my character.
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I think you missed the point all together most specs being viable doesn't tell the story of mop pvp. While you can play most classes what you are playing (as in the game state) is bad.
Here's the thing on making it better they always talk a great talk but what ends up happening in beta is a whole different matter. There is a reason why every single x.0 patch has been terrible for pvp. And Mop already gave holinka a bad track record so...
I'm sure they will make somethings better like always but then there will be all the new changes that make things worse its happened every single expansion and its been 10 years of this.
Last edited by Wow; 2014-03-31 at 03:34 AM.
healers break pvp
make them less of a factor, where healer teams dont win most of the time and the game will be fun
I realize that the basic pvp systems and many class mechanics are terrible right now. I tried to explain the most likely reason they haven't been improved. And yes, first seasons have historically been poor. I'm not expecting the class balance to be great next season, but I do think the the game's basic playstyle and mechanics will be more acceptable. And really that's all that matters to me. Perfect balance would be ideal, but when you get down to it all I really want is the basic gameplay to be engaging.
Anybody who says PvP could be worse than it was in Vanilla is fooling themselves. It might not be great, but nothing is even comparable to that abomination.
WoW was never a PvP game to begin with. They keep trying to get it right but will always come short. If you want a real PvP game, look at the games being played for esports. WoW got kicked out of esports for a reason.
It isn't surely the worst, but awful nonetherless
Class balance? pretty good, but the gameplay is freaking hilarious. You get erased in a blink of a sec, and also healed to max in a blink of a sec. CC is totally absurd. Healer is too powerful that when you go up in 2v2 arenas you'll only meet DPS/Healer and a few CC spamming 2 DPS. I hate being forced to meet Healer to win 2v2 arenas, which means when you meet another DPS/Healer the fight will go on about 10~15m