Talent trees.

[Lahis]

On that note, does anyone have a link to a WotLK talent calculator? I want to remind myself how Death knight's managed to tank and dps with all three specs.

I found them by googling "WOTLK talent calculator", but it was posted on a private server website so I don't think I can link it here.

[Eace]

Talent trees only offered an illusion of choice. Most of them were pointless clutter that might've been baseline stats (like they are now) and the few points you could allocate as you wished seldomly gave any significant stuff. Atleast now every talent-tier has some sort of tangible effect.

I agree whole-heartedly with you.

OT: We might not have "trees" anymore, but stop pretending that we used to have more customisation with the old talent system. We surely didn't.

[Daffan]

They should of made the talent trees wider and taller, not just taller

Blizzard said their was no choice in talents. Well no crap they had 1 or 2 choices at most per tier. And as you went down they got stronger and required, nearly every new talent they made now they could of added to the width

[Deleted]

I do. The new ones are a horrible; they fix the supposed class weaknesses and push more homogenisation into the game- not to mention butcher some signature abillities. There were better ways to push customization- anyone remember the TBC UA/Ruin vs SL/SL, or cata full frost vs shatterfire? Arcane mage with shatter? Shockadin?

[Raiju]

But they didn't, because no one ever said "I'm going to go 3% crit instead of 5% crit so I can pick up a move that never got selected due to extreme uselessness. It was quite an illusion, but the current talent system is far more customisation oriented than the old trees. There simply is nothing worthwhile out of "5/5 improved damage from X" or "3/3 increases critical strike chance of Y" just to unlock the useful move stuck in a rigid spec etc.

It's funny because the guy above you just proved you wrong. There were alternate specs with the old tree and most specs of most classes rarely change now. NOTHING has changed there, because changing certain talents is just plain suboptimal now as it was before. A lot of classes LOST abilities they already had to justify the talent trees being there.

All you've lost is RPG aspects of the game and character immersion. You've gained *nothing* except simplicity from the new talent trees.

[zorkuus]

All you've lost is RPG aspects of the game and character immersion. You've gained *nothing* except simplicity from the new talent trees.

I'll take simplicity over complexity for the sake of complexity any day.

[Raiju]

I'll take simplicity over complexity for the sake of complexity any day.

http://www.prongo.com/tictac/

[Drilnos]

The old talent trees didn't make you feel more powerful with every level. They told you you were. There is that psychological aspect to it. But you needed to be told, because nobody notices the effect of 1% extra crit or a 5% harder hitting nuke or wand hit, especially not while leveling. Even running a meter you couldn't tell.

Anyway, as it stands now you get at least one new ability or passive every two levels, and they all flash on the screen when you ding, along with any dungeons you are now powerful enough to run. That's plenty enough positive feedback for me. The talent row every 15 levels is just gravy.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

I kinda miss them and would love to see them come back but not to replace the talent system we have now. I would like to see it come back as a way to still progress your character at max level, like the AA System EQ has. That way your character can still get stronger even if you don't raid, all you have to do is put some effort to grind out those points.

[Cernunnos]

Talent trees are fine when they are like they were in Diablo 2, each ability you could learn was a new spell or attack that was useful. But even then when I think back on the D2 ones there were ones I either never specced into at all or took simply because I needed them to get something further down the tree. And that is the biggest problems I had with the old WOW talent trees.

Many abilities were PVP only, so I would never use them at all (I only PVE), others I specced into simply because I needed/wanted the item further down the tree, others were filler talents 1/2/3% crit on X ability. And in the case of the Prot Paladin, certain abilities were mandatory or your couldn't function as a Prot Paladin.

By wrath with the old talent trees most specs had a good 31 points that had to be assigned in a certain way to perform as the spec, you had maybe up to maybe 5 points to spare in your main tree that you could actually choose where you wanted to put them, but you still had to save enough talent points for the talents that were mandatory from your secondary trees. There is a reason spec builds were called XX/YY/ZZ builds, such as Fury 18/53/0 18 points into arms 53 into Fury, 0 into Prot. You might have been able to move 2 or 3 of the points around but the vast majority of the points remained unchanged between players.

If I only have 2 or 3 points out of 71 that are truly mine to decide where to put them, then where is my customization? Having to take this, that and the other thing which are signature abilities of the spec and the spec doesn't function properly without them is not choice. If I have to take something or do something then it's mandatory not optional.

[melodramocracy]

But they didn't, because no one ever said "I'm going to go 3% crit instead of 5% crit so I can pick up a move that never got selected due to extreme uselessness. It was quite an illusion, but the current talent system is far more customisation oriented than the old trees. There simply is nothing worthwhile out of "5/5 improved damage from X" or "3/3 increases critical strike chance of Y" just to unlock the useful move stuck in a rigid spec etc.

People keep repeating this as if it were true for all situations. Quaint.

[plantation]

There were a lot of variations for some classes tho. Like for awhile I was a balance/resto hybrid druid for 2s. GL trying that now lmao

[judgementofantonidas]

took three whole lines for the misguided "everyone just googled it" response to crop up.

[Tradu]

I just think the MoP talent trees are just glyphs with a different name. They lack the constant progression while levelling(I know that's in passives now, but it felt "cooler" when you got to spend the points yourself), and for a lot of classes even when you get them you're like "eh, another situational ability that's not very interesting" or "oh, finally I get something that my spec should get baseline. Thank you Blizzard!"

[judgementofantonidas]

This was one thing that really killed it for me. I enjoyed Frost tanking, and was never a fan of Blood at all. Just the concept of it never attracted me. Made me sad they went away from the design.

they never really posted a good reason why they removed the three dk tanking classes either. just poof screw you, you wanna tank you go blood.

[Drilnos]

they never really posted a good reason why they removed the three dk tanking classes either. just poof screw you, you wanna tank you go blood.

Same reason they split guardian out from feral for druids. Except giving DKs six specs was not an option.

[Marema]

I don't miss them. Like, at all. New talent system is by far better than the old one. It was a pain in the ass to respec. New system may not be perfect but I prefer it to the old one.

[Forgettable]

The old talents were junk.

[Deleted]

I dont care about everybody using the "cookie-cutter" build I thought it was more fun with more points and choices. I would want them back any day of the week

[Evelyn]

Anyone else missing the old talent trees?

Yes

/10 char