6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Deleted]

I can't say i am impressed by Warriors at all, right now.

I play a Fury warr, been playing it since Cata - And i feel that, with Colossus Smash having been removed, it's like..

Whelp.. Uh.. What now? Just, build rage and dump rage? I don't even get to rotate my CD's around Banner no more..

So uh.. uhm... Err... Mash buttons? Press Bladestorm when it's off CD?

It just feels.. Empty.

[cFortyfive]

What I don't understand is why they're making this change only now. It existed all throughout MoP and even Cata, and was deemed okay. But now it's not?

While still annoying it's probably never been easier to pull off without losses than in wod. Run out during auto swing downtime cast whirlwind and charge back. No damage lost.

[Jalopy]

So I simmed the arms L45 talents because I was bored and slam is no longer a DPS decrease.

I can feel Archi over my shoulder giving me some speech about insulting devs before doing the research already.

[Secondwind]

So I simmed the arms L45 talents because I was bored and slam is no longer a DPS decrease.

I can feel Archi over my shoulder giving me some speech about insulting devs before doing the research already.

Did you sim at 90 or 100?

[Archimtiros]

What I don't understand is why they're making this change only now. It existed all throughout MoP and even Cata, and was deemed okay. But now it's not?

Because it wasn't optimal play in MoP. You could do it, but it was a DPS loss to do so, thus they wouldn't care. However in 6.0, it is a DPS increase which leads to later balancing issues.

It honestly needed to be corrected, there is no arguing that. But the way it was done was ridiculous. Breaking one thing to bandaid another while ignoring the true problem.

Now I understand, this whole "slow, strong" mindset, but it is absolutely ridiculous. No matter how much you muscle it, WoW simply isn't a game set up for that kind of gameplay without significant behind the scene (read passive abilities) work giving incentive to do so. WoW has always been moderately fast paced, and it is why we have the GCD in the first place!

I've heard many arguments on the subject, especially from other classes who are used to purposefully halting their rotation to wait for something, whether it was resource pooling (Rogues) or to line up procs (DK's); and that is perfectly fine, but the difference is they do it on purpose with a compelling reason to do so. Simply limiting resources and forcing slower play is not compelling, as the choice has been taken out of the players hands; and certainly not engaging, since the player is left sitting on their thumbs for no reason.

I'll support the devs, even if disagree with them personally and I've had many personal discussions on the matter with them; but that doesn't change the fact that Arms reeks of poor, lazy design. It has three major flaws which are not present in any other spec in the game.

1) Downtime, without compelling reason.
Even a simple passive buff which increased damage based on time since last ability used would go a long way to fix this.
2) Lack of engagement.
It simply has nothing keeping the spec interesting. No procs, no intrinsic mechanics. It doesn't even have a single in-game spell alert!
3) Lack of choice or control.
By product of 1 & 2, with so few abilities, all of which are limited either by cooldown or resource, there is simply no choice to be made while playing. It again makes the spec very lackluster and even boring to play. A simple 1-2-3 priority with no thought behind it.

The specs only saving grace is tab target Rend with TfB, which as a talent is frankly insulting considering how many classes do this by default and we have to talent into the least bit of engagement in our play. If talents are supposed to "change the way we play" then they need to do that. Sudden Death should have us overflowing with procs, creating reactive gameplay, not just adding one random proc every 20+ seconds. TfB should significantly alter Rend, making it the priority in our rotation. Slam should.. well, dealing damage would be a good start!

I heard the catchphrase given at the Australian event. "Accessibility isn't the enemy of complexity" (paraphrased), and that can be true, but design doesn't need to be brain dead simple to be accessible. It only needs to be intuitive and engaging.

[Jalopy]

Did you sim at 90 or 100?

Actually neither since I just realized I never did a control sim with no L45 talent. Nor do I know how to.

There's still hope that my snide comments aren't in vain.

[Secondwind]

Actually neither since I just realized I never did a control sim with no L45 talent. Nor do I know how to.

There's still hope that my snide comments aren't in vain.

To do a control sim for no L45 talent, just select Slam as a talent, and remove Slam from the action list, then run the sim.

[Jalopy]

To do a control sim for no L45 talent, just select Slam as a talent, and remove Slam from the action list, then run the sim.

Replacing a period over the selecting on the talent line also works.

w/o Slam @ 90


w/Slam @ 90


w/o Slam @ 100, Mythic Gear


w/Slam @ 100, Mythic Gear


So yea slam isn't a DPS decrease anymore I guess.

E: Because Archi asked me and I'm too lazy to show my work

@90
SD > TFB > Slam

@100
TFB = SD > Slam
TFB and SD are basically equal, play what you want.

As of latest changes, latest simc version, etc etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Good thing Celestalon and I hate each other or I might have to apologize or something.

[Valkyrie264]

I can't say i am impressed by Warriors at all, right now.

I play a Fury warr, been playing it since Cata - And i feel that, with Colossus Smash having been removed, it's like..

Whelp.. Uh.. What now? Just, build rage and dump rage? I don't even get to rotate my CD's around Banner no more..

So uh.. uhm... Err... Mash buttons? Press Bladestorm when it's off CD?

It just feels.. Empty.

Am I the only one that HATED pooling rage and cd's and waiting for CS to come back? ._.

[nenwavriana]

For two glorious weeks Heroic Leap worked like an actual, functional ability.

And now I can no longer go up a flight of stairs.

This is the patch that keeps on giving.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that HATED pooling rage and cd's and waiting for CS to come back? ._.

I can see why you would hate it - But at the same time, if there is no real instance of pooling a resource.. Then you are essentialy spamming abilities along with your ability to regen the resource.

It's like playing a rogue, except you don't have any CD's to maintain or rotations to consider!

[Jalopy]

Why do people keep saying HL no longer lets you go up stairs? I'm jumping around like a grasshopper still.

[nenwavriana]

I believe Leap was only "broken" in instanced areas.

I definitely couldn't use it tonight on the stairs after immerseus, before malkorok, or in garrosh's room. And I definitely could last week.

It may still work correctly in the overworld.

Fixing it to break it again still making me rage.

edit: found the hotfix note

Heroic Leap should no longer allow the Warrior to ignore vertical terrain restrictions while in a Dungeon, Raid, or Battleground.

[Jalopy]

Definitely works in overworld. I guess I can see why it doesn't work in instanced areas, though the inconsistency is going to get old fast.

[Recke]

Am I the only one that HATED pooling rage and cd's and waiting for CS to come back? ._.

No, you weren't the only one. Lots of players (many of them admitting to playing a warrior as an alt and or or not having gear) have praised Celestalon via twitter, or posted in these threads talking about 'pooling rage' which wasn't nearly as big of a problem in SoO gear.

[nenwavriana]

Part of why it sticks in my craw is the fixes to heroic leap pathing were one of the few things I felt was unambiguously good about this patch. And now it's back how it was because... why? They don't want us to jump up to the balcony in warsong gulch? Fuck that.

[Deleted]

I'm slightly amused by the Slam nerf. They really don't want anyone to use that, huh?

[Archimtiros]

Leaping up balconies and to areas there were obviously improbable was an issue. I can agree with nerfing that. Removing the ability to leap up and down a flight of stairs or over a small rock on the ground is ridiculous. Another instance of "unable to fix elegantly, remove all the functionality". Exactly the same problem as Heroic Charge, exactly the same solution.

They waited far too long to fix issues that were addressed months ago, and because of the time crunch, its easier for them to cull everything. It's like swatting flies with a shotgun.

[mysticx]

Leaping up balconies and to areas there were obviously improbable was an issue. I can agree with nerfing that. Removing the ability to leap up and down a flight of stairs or over a small rock on the ground is ridiculous. Another instance of "unable to fix elegantly, remove all the functionality". Exactly the same problem as Heroic Charge, exactly the same solution.

They waited far too long to fix issues that were addressed months ago, and because of the time crunch, its easier for them to cull everything. It's like swatting flies with a shotgun.

I think that mechanically, it would be very hard to add "You can jump up high places, as long as the incline to get there isn't too steep", what HL probably does now is just check the height difference between point of launch (so to speak) and point of landing, adding "Oh yeah, and check the elevation of every point inbetween" would probably require rewriting the code of the entire skill, and time is kind of short to do all that just so you can shave a few seconds off your time in a raid...

[Deleted]

"You can leap anywhere you can/are charge to if a target is there"

- Can't leap on balconies any more
- Targets never go outside of a map (unless their russian, always russian around)
- Can still use leap as a functional ability.

Obvious with the expansion a mere 14 days away it would be ridiculous to even entertain the thought that they'd get something right be able to adjust it.