Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Ordinator]

I think the point must have grazed your head as it flew over and took the parts of your brain responsible for higher reasoning with it.

Having flight did not negatively affect the popularity of Wrath of the Lich King, or indeed Burning Crusade before it. That is the point. You want to bring in Cataclysm because it had unlimited outdoor flight, and use that as some kind of argument? Then I counter with MoP which had, in my opinion, excessive and unnecessary restrictions and actually did worse than Cataclysm, the poster child for bad expansions.

So would you argue that having flight was a factor in WotLKs popularity?

[quras]

That scenario is comparable to garrisons in WoD. People always get hyped for new features. They don't always turn out good for the game.

Maybe, but if your going to take that stance , then you do believe flying hurt subs or changed things one way or another which kinda goes against what you were saying earlier.

And while a new feature can indeed work as you claim, flying just got better in WotLK as it extended for alts encouraging gamers to play longer leveling alts. Flying while level was an interesting addition in cata and kept flying in the forefront, yet it was not the problem cataclysm had. That extends to MoP and WoD. Flying just wasn't their down fall.

It's becoming more and more apparently to me flying was never the real issue for any of wow's problems but blizzards apparently decreased ability or lack of ability to do better. blizzard just needed a reason to blame their lack of ability on. So flying took the brunt as some culprit but we as gamers know beyond TBC and maybe WotLK, flying was not a sub killer or massive sub gain.

While flying may no longer be a huge draw as it was, it's not causing gamers to leave like removing it seems to have done for some.

So would you argue that having flight was a factor in WotLKs popularity?

I would but not nearly as much as it was for TBC.

I played longer for the undead dragon.
I played longer for Mimron's head.
I played longer leveling alts that could fly earlier.
I played longer getting a Violet protodrake and 310% flying and at that time it was hard to get.
I played longer and flying was a part of why I played longer. It was a main factor in keeping me subbed.

That is something I cannot say for Wod. No flying is the proverbial rock in my shoe and no matter where I went in WoD, it interrupted my play, distracted me from the game and along with some other things ultimately pushed me to leave wow after a very long time.

[TheSpinelessCarp]

I'm sure they will implement flying in 6.3 or 6.4

I'd have to agree with that statement. No way it isn't coming back.

[Deleted]

I'm sure they will implement flying in 6.3 or 6.4

There won't be a 6.4 and probably no 6.3 either.

[DeadmanWalking]

I'd have to agree with that statement. No way it isn't coming back.

I suspect 6.2, even podcasts that have hosts who swore up and down that the game was better off without flight have changed their minds because they are absolutely tired of using the same boring flight points to get to raid. I also doubt we will have 3 tiers this expansion, they pretty much gutted the 100<->Raid content for the ake of a faster expansion release plan.

[Ordinator]

I suspect 6.2, even podcasts that have hosts who swore up and down that the game was better off without flight have changed their minds because they are absolutely tired of using the same boring flight points to get to raid. I also doubt we will have 3 tiers this expansion, they pretty much gutted the 100<->Raid content for the ake of a faster expansion release plan.

What podcasts exactly?

[Pyromelter]

1 word:

Cataclysm.

Oh, you mean the expansion with the second highest subscription numbers of any monthly pay MMO of all time, that happened to have flying everywhere in it?

That straws you keep grasping at, there are very few left on the straw man you keep using to discuss this topic. I could counter your argument by saying this:

Timeless Isle. Wow subs dropped to early BC levels as we were stuck on the ground in the final end-game open world area in MoP. Mid May, then mid August, and then finally in mid November, we'll see where subs stand. The chest puffing you anti-flyers did when the initial subs came out is going to deflate, I guarantee it.

I would also point out, a helluva a lot of people stuck it out in Cataclysm so they could fly around as a great big blue dragon. And Cata also saw the introduction of player taxi mounts via vial of the sands, an immensely popular thing that many people would be using on Draenor, just as they did in Pandaria.

[Evilfish]

That scenario is comparable to garrisons in WoD. People always get hyped for new features. They don't always turn out good for the game.

Mhm, and you'd know what's good for the game.

[Maneo]

That scenario is comparable to garrisons in WoD. People always get hyped for new features. They don't always turn out good for the game.

That is a very good point, only one glaring flaw.

Yes flight was announced at the Blizzcon prior to BC to much applause and approval much the way garrisons were at the previous Blizzcon. However we also had the same response when flight was announced for the Vanilla content when Cata came out.

Please tell me you see the difference?

I'm sure they will implement flying in 6.3 or 6.4

If flight doesn't come in 6.2 cause I find it very unlikely we will have a 6.4, WoD will be the last expac to have flight enabled.

Mhm, and you'd know what's good for the game.

Yes because removing flight was so good for the game right? EXCEPT that WoD is shaping up to be the most hated expansion thus far.

News flash to all the sheeple and Blizzard white knights this decision isn't for the player or even improving game play, it is for the Devs and Activision.

[Blackcoffin]

News flash to all the sheeple and Blizzard white knights this decision isn't for the player or even improving game play, it is for the Devs and Activision.

Goebbels?

And how exactly does the developers and Activision benefit from no-flying?

[Maneo]

Goebbels?

And how exactly does the developers and Activision benefit from no-flying?

I have explained it before to you multiple times, and you conveniently fail to respond to it. If you can't figure it out all by your lonesome I am not going to waste my time anymore.

Yah know what they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink.

[Blackcoffin]

I have explained it before to you multiple times, and you conveniently fail to respond to it. If you can't figure it out all by your lonesome I am not going to waste my time anymore.

Yah know what they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink.

I'm not responding because you just utter speculative bs, and you enforce it by using deductive reasoning. I like to be a bit more moved other than shallow "reasoning". Try me again.

[Maneo]

I'm not responding because you just utter speculative bs, and you enforce it by using deductive reasoning. I like to be a bit more moved other than shallow "reasoning". Try me again.

Yes because Video Game companies, politicians lawyers, etc etc are all honest, and you obviously believe all the BS they spew.

1. Does removing flight provide a better game? (well according to most polls WoD is shaping up to be the worst expac to date)
2. Does removing flight allow them to develop more innovative, dynamic engaging content? The answer should be yes, however WoD and 6.1 state otherwise.
3. Does it allow them to release content at a faster pace? Sure doesn't look that way.

Ok so that makes it pretty clear that it isn't benefiting the player w/the exception of those that have dreams of WPVP and even there it hasn't delivered.

Or I guess you could be that special snowflake that finds riding around on your ground mount dealing w/WoWs Horrible collision mechanics, terrain inconsistency, or trash (leveling) mobs so tightly packed that you either have to take a 5 minute detour to avoid them, or take 5 minutes to kill them although they offer no challenge threat or reward to be fun or compelling game play. If you are I promise you are the minority.

So who benefits from removing flight?

Lets look at few things shall we.
- Silvermoon and Exodar have never been enabled for flight cause per the Devs (who you treat there words as the one truth) it would be to costly, and labor intensive
- Everyone has fallen through the world during a dungeon or raid at some point, at that point if you look around it is all rendered in 2d. Why do you think that is?

From this we can determine that if they are able to render a world w/out flight they will. Why cause it is more costly and labor intensive.

The simple truth is this is all a experiment to see if removing flight would cost them more revenue (subs, mount sales) then the savings they would gain from being able to develop all FUTURE content w/out flight. They can't say that however cause it would be a PR nightmare.

So they pour the kool aide and you drink deeply, and repeat at tedium how flight interferes w/there vision (nevermind they have produced content for 8 years w/flight).

My only question to you is: Why do you care what the Devs want so much?

Seriously some of you anti flight people are like trying to converse w/religious zealots and the devs are the one true God. It is that very reason until you say something of consequence and stop giving the devs a virtual hand job I am going to disregard your comments.

In closing again I will say: I am not pro flight, I am pro a more engaging, dynamic, fun game. I just knew that Blizzard wouldn't deliver, so I took a pro flight stance.

[Elim Garak]

I'm not responding because you just utter speculative bs, and you enforce it by using deductive reasoning. I like to be a bit more moved other than shallow "reasoning". Try me again.

And all you utter is ad hominems

[Blackcoffin]

Yes because Video Game companies, politicians lawyers, etc etc are all honest, and you obviously believe all the BS they spew.

1. Does removing flight provide a better game? (well according to most polls WoD is shaping up to be the worst expac to date)
2. Does removing flight allow them to develop more innovative, dynamic engaging content? The answer should be yes, however WoD and 6.1 state otherwise.
3. Does it allow them to release content at a faster pace? Sure doesn't look that way.

1. If the success from a developer point of view, is to keep people on the ground, setting the pace for all players in the great outdoors, letting them experiencing terrain they've spent countless man-hours creating, they've been quite successful. Unlike any other expansion, there has not been as detailed and layered game-continent as Draenor. This is highly overlooked.

2. What on earth is innovative, dynamic content? You're imagining compromises you want because of lack of flying. There's a very clear red line between developer intentions and execution. The game core mechanic has been the same for 8 years. Combat. Removing flying put people back where they belong. On the ground. Again, their arguments enforce this. You might not agree, because of imaginative scenarios where ground mounts and flying mounts skip the same things. Fallacious thinking.

3. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no problems waiting, because I'm actually enjoying the game.

Ok so that makes it pretty clear that it isn't benefiting the player w/the exception of those that have dreams of WPVP and even there it hasn't delivered.

Makes nothing clear actually. The variables in the questions is set by you, so it makes it easier for you to see it "clear", but I think there's more to it than the 3 points you brought up.
Does flying provide a better game? No, it doesn't. It provides a faster paced game. A pace that makes it impossible to create anything remotely steadfast in terms of content approach.

Or I guess you could be that special snowflake that finds riding around on your ground mount dealing w/WoWs Horrible collision mechanics, terrain inconsistency, or trash (leveling) mobs so tightly packed that you either have to take a 5 minute detour to avoid them, or take 5 minutes to kill them although they offer no challenge threat or reward to be fun or compelling game play. If you are I promise you are the minority.

That's calling it playing the game. You're advocating better rewards, better collision mechanics. Other than the usual hyperboles you're not really advocating flight.

So who benefits from removing flight?

Lets look at few things shall we.
- Silvermoon and Exodar have never been enabled for flight cause per the Devs (who you treat there words as the one truth) it would be to costly, and labor intensive
- Everyone has fallen through the world during a dungeon or raid at some point, at that point if you look around it is all rendered in 2d. Why do you think that is?

Must be funny to have this BS-meter that knows when Blizzard states the truth, and when they don't. Other than that, I'm not a game designer, I have no clue what happens when you "fall" through the game world. And I've had that happen one time, behind the old loophole in karazhan.

From this we can determine that if they are able to render a world w/out flight they will. Why cause it is more costly and labor intensive.

The simple truth is this is all a experiment to see if removing flight would cost them more revenue (subs, mount sales) then the savings they would gain from being able to develop all FUTURE content w/out flight. They can't say that however cause it would be a PR nightmare.

Speculative BS. Unless you have some specific numbers, you're just being oblivious.

So they pour the kool aide and you drink deeply, and repeat at tedium how flight interferes w/there vision (nevermind they have produced content for 8 years w/flight).

Having flight for 8 years doesn't mean anything. Game is evolving, might be for the better, might be for the worst. In the end, if I don't enjoy the game, I'll simply stop playing. Now that's simple.

My only question to you is: Why do you care what the Devs want so much?

Because game-design is not a democratic process. Only top-end players in raids and PvP give Blizzard the constructive feedback they need at a game-balancing point of view. Other than that you've hoards of delusional whiners on the public forums, screaming; "NERF", "EFF YOU", "EFF THAT".

Seriously some of you anti flight people are like trying to converse w/religious zealots and the devs are the one true God. It is that very reason until you say something of consequence and stop giving the devs a virtual hand job I am going to disregard your comments.

Funny you mention religious zealots. You've spent your time fighting a battle vs science using stupid analogies, hyperbole's and fallacies. You've nothing of presence in the air for you.

In closing again I will say: I am not pro flight, I am pro a more engaging, dynamic, fun game. I just knew that Blizzard wouldn't deliver, so I took a pro flight stance.

We want the same thing. However, flying and content are two separate issues in terms of intentions and subjectivity.

- - - Updated - - -

And all you utter is ad hominems

The irony.

[Ferocity]

Playing EverQuest II, I was flying over small location (with hostile village), where I got dismounted with debuff, which reads:

It made me remember situation in WoW oh so much :)

There is no flying, because Blizzard basically said...
"Get Out Of Our Skies!"

[Cthulhu 2020]

I've read your post, but since you claimed to on a consistant basis get up to three and if a bit lucky three one can almost instantly dismiss it in it's entirety. Getting even two is very rare and needs quite a bit of luck with the extra items to finish up projects faster. Getting three should be a once in a blue moon event. Yet you bring it up, because as usual you just can't be honest.

I said I can typically get 1.5 to 2, as the average is 7 fragments and average about 1 ghost per dig site plus a keystone, so that's 90 on average. I said it can sometimes reach 2.5 or 3 if I get lucky with keystones. Yes, my original post said that. If you disagree, go back and read it.

I can only assume you did archaeology for an hour then quit because you couldn't stand it without flight. I'm 4 pristine artifacts away from a completed museum and this archaeology is far more satisfying, as sometimes I wouldn't even complete a whole artifact in pandaland after one dig. That's uber unsatisfying to do a whole dig, go into your journal and not have anything to make (and don't get me started on cata archaeology with dig sites often 5-10 minutes apart with flight, and ~12 fragments per dig site *Shudder*). Going in and solving 1 or 2, SOMETIMES even 3 is awesome. A few days ago I got 6 keystones from a single dig and managed to finish 4 artifacts from that 1 dig.

Flight would make it even faster than it already is, but as it is, it's ridiculously fast compared to before. Boredom and frustration from lack of flight might stretch out perception of time though.

[Angeredsoul]

Wow people still arguing over this? If you want to fly that badly there are a few flight simulation games on the market these days.

[Maneo]

Wow people still arguing over this? If you want to fly that badly there are a few flight simulation games on the market these days.

No people want to play WoW w/out the added tediousness and annoyance

[Deleted]

Goebbels?

And how exactly does the developers and Activision benefit from no-flying?

"Activision-blizzard is trying to make their game even more successful and thus they are bad guys."