Anders Brevik is suing over the conditions of his already-luxurious prison cell

[Shadowferal]

Not having the internet is torture...LOL!

[JohnBrown1917]

Only if you are of feeble mind.

I doubt anybody can withstand years in isolation without going insane.
Try doing some research on the effects of 24/7 isolation.

[Gib Lover]

Not having the internet is torture...LOL!

Yeah when you focus on only the most trivial of his grievances, the issue does seem that simple, doesn't it.

[JohnBrown1917]

Not having the internet is torture...LOL!

We are talking about 24/7 isolation, in case you're not keeping up.

[Mistame]

Saying you're being pragmatic doesn't free you up from what I just said.

Not saying that it does, just that it's irrelevant.

You're simply assuming pragmatism as a base value and starting point, but it's not in and of itself more logical than idealism or another perspective.

Of course it's not. But in the context it was used, it's a more pure logic as it filters out the taint of unfettered emotion. I didn't say that other perspectives are invalid. I merely implied that perspectives based primarily on emotion are inherently irrational.

[Barnabas]

We are talking about 24/7 isolation, in case you're not keeping up.

Then don't kill 77 people?

[Rafoel]

Pragmatic efficiency context tells us that countries with Norwegian-like approach to justice are much more effective at reducing crime than countries with principles closer to "An eye for an eye".
.

No they are not. No matter how high the "reintroduction to society" program is, there will always be people who return to crime agter being released. And guess what? When nobody is released from prison, the recurring crime rate is 0%.

[JohnBrown1917]

Then don't kill 77 people?

I don't think Ill even bother.

[Deleted]

Teehee that's cute.

Come back here after the Apple vs FBI mass surveilance case plays out then let me know how the US is doing on their non-socialist violating citizens rights slope.

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That's why most of us in the US favor the death penalty.

Most of the US doesn't favor the death penalty. It's why it's being slowly abolished and sees less use across the states.

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Cool. Then let me reiterate that the opinions of some brony punk trolling on a gaming forum are irrelevant.



Or perhaps you're unaware that quoting a word adds emphasis to a word while clarifying a disagreement with its use in a specific context.

You're saying that hard science is not enough to sway your standpoint anyway, which means that there's really no point discussing with you as you will just parrot the same standpoint endlessly.

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I agree. Send him over here to do his time. He'll wish he was back in his apartment prison in Norway.

Let's also add in the fact he got 21 years for killing 77 people. What a fucking joke.

The real joke is the US sentencing people to "600 years in prison" like fuck yeah, better keep that corpse incarcerated a few hundred years more just in case. wut?

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Of course it's not. But in the context it was used, it's a more pure logic as it filters out the taint of unfettered emotion. I didn't say that other perspectives are invalid. I merely implied that perspectives based primarily on emotion are inherently irrational.

Unlike your emotional standpoint which is, of course, completely rational.

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No they are not. No matter how high the "reintroduction to society" program is, there will always be people who return to crime agter being released. And guess what? When nobody is released from prison, the recurring crime rate is 0%.

Crime occurs in prison as well, so they still commit crime. Though if we take your thinking to the edge we may as well start locking up high risk individuals in advance as that will greatly reduce crime. Then we can lock everyone up and get to the crime-free society we all deserve.

[Ailil]

I don't get it
What choice do they have?

They can't let him spread his extremist ideology, so no building a network like he want to
They can't let him with others prisoners, they would kill him
They can't make his family and friends (?) to go there

So, what do you do with a person that no one want?

[May90]

In theory, it could. But we can probably attribute the majority of that to economics, don't you think?

I don't think it has much to do with economics, to be honest.

No they are not. No matter how high the "reintroduction to society" program is, there will always be people who return to crime agter being released. And guess what? When nobody is released from prison, the recurring crime rate is 0%.

The recurring crime rate does not equal the total crime rate.

[Seranthor]

Maybe if he was in it by choice.

by all means, put him in general population, I think that would be absolutely the best choice for all involved. I'd welcome that.

[Mistame]

There's nothing more purely logical about what you are calling pragmatism;

Emotionally-driven logic is purely subjective. The more subjective the logic, the less rational it becomes. Therefore, logic based in pragmatism is inherently more "pure", as it's less subjective.

I don't think it has much to do with economics, to be honest.

Education, poverty, poor family structures, etc, have more of an impact on crime rates than the type of justice system in place. The "rehabilitation" rates are certainly higher though, in the said justice systems.

[Tennis]

I read he was a guild leader in WoW. A lot of his guild mates supposedly still support him on some level.

This is really disturbing.

[Mistame]

You're failing to acknowledge and account for the fact that pragmatism is merely an approach to achieving desired outcomes, said outcomes being the product of current wants and values. No action is inherently pragmatic. That's not even to mention that there isn't some sort of special set of rules for "emotionally-driven" logic. Logic is logic. You are either making a logical argument or you are not, and it doesn't matter whether you appeal to emotions, pragmatism, or any other perspective to do so. It is about how you string together premises, not what conclusions you draw.

It's also a way to come to a less-flawed conclusion by setting aside emotion in favor of reason. My point is that anytime a conclusion is reached, primarily or even largely influenced by emotion, it is inherently and subjectively flawed. But I've no problems admitting that my perspective is biased. But it's certainly not an emotional bias, as I find "feels" to be inane.

[Mistame]

Your point is a false one. You didn't evaluate any sort of reasoning and show the faults in it. You simply dismissed your opponent as being irrational because they used emotion (and you still incorrectly believe there is no emotion involved in your position) based on the profoundly idiotic belief that emotion is innately at odds with reason, when in fact it's only at odds with reason in the same way literally anything at all is at odds with reason when it leads to irrationality, but simply allowing an emotion to be considered is not inherently unreasonable, nor any less reasonable than your cheap version of "pragmatism." The "pure logic" you keep appealing to is nothing more than special pleading on your part, itself an informal fallacy.

And that's your opinion. Mine is that emotions have no place outside of interpersonal relations. Moving on.

[Seranthor]

How is this about feelings? For not wanting the justice system to have the power to torture?

How is his situation 'torture'? Please, explain it for me... then be prepared to answer questions after your explanation.

[breadisfunny]

Put a bullet in his head.

i agree completely with this sentiment.

[Deleted]

Similar to killing 77 people? What would that be? Killing 78 people?

Maximum sentence. You cant compare crimes. There are probably a lot of sorry excuses for humans in there who would have happily done the same, just got caught sooner or didnt have the opportunity. My point is though that prisons, as an institute of justice and rehabilitation should not take the law in their own hands. Every criminal serving the same sentence should be treated the same way as opposed to the prison officials deciding that the punishment sentenced by the court is not enough, and that guy sucks more than the rest, so we must invent new things to punish him with and only him, not the other prisoners.

And no, I dont think hes been mistreated at all, he deserves far worse, I just believe in equal treatment and laws as opposed to vigilante justice and bending the law cause of feelings.

[Otaka]

No, I am pretty sure that according to the law they still have their human rights.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitary_confinement

Apparently the criminals dont care about the law, and kill people... so why should we care about their rights, part of the same law system? :P

Its simply... you get what you asked for. Im sure the people he killed would be talking about THEIR human rights... only if they could.