The Division

[grandpab]

Got my first high end last night. Finally had enough phoenix credits to buy a blueprint so I bought the vector that everyone keeps talking about. Ended up getting some awesome rolls on it, but can only use one of the mods so far.

First thing I did was take it into the dz and I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. Yellows are now about as difficult as purple mobs used to be.

[Tinykong]

This is the type of thing that they should have caught in internal testing (where there were no level caps). Opening the entire game publicly during a beta is not a great idea if all you're really using it for are marketing purposes and to stress your servers/test backend.

There's a reason almost no games do this.

The PC hotfix seems like something that would have been discovered in beta. The Dark Zone in beta was completely different than on live. There was no risk involved in dying, so players would go rogue all the time. So, they increased the penalty for going rogue, and on live, almost no one went rogue, and instead just farmed PC. So, then they nerfed PC, and all the people who geared up can just move that gear to an alt, and go troll in the DZ with a protected rank on their main.

It's an awesome game, but the end game is a mess and the knee jerk reactions without a lot of data haven't helped.

[Kelimbror]

To be fair there have been posts here about how the boss in the first security mission (at the police department parking lot) is impossible/unfair when it can be easily beaten without taking a hit by staying behind cover and killing all the peons first, then when down to the boss stay behind cover until the sniper stands up and fires, then shoot his head. He ducks, you duck, he stands, fires and you stand fire. Rinse and repeat until it dies. Some people think you can just strafe the whole fight while unloading your whole clip like this is 1996 Duke Nukem.

It's likely because this game needs a little bit more flexibility in the action department w/r/t character mobility and mistake forgiveness. I completely get that this has the name 'Tom Clancy' and implies it's going to be more strategy oriented, but they built the game as a mesh of shooter/mmo genres and there are a couple of conclusions to draw from that.

1) Completely tactical firefights are tiring, tedious, and easy to reduce fun. Sure, a lot of people think that it's the best thing ever...but would this be a better game if it lightened up on it a little bit? I think so from a general perspective.
To your example, having an enemy kill you in a second just because you popped your head up at the wrong time is a little overdone. Maybe this is mitigated by gear higher on, but it doesn't provide a nice learning curve for players and that's just indicative of weaker game design than this could have.

2) A lot of people don't understand how to express 'this isn't fun' beyond saying 'this is too hard'. The resulting responses to those people are a large cause of what Bovinity was talking about...the whole L2P thing. Essentially your post is an "L2P' post. I'm not criticizing you for it, because it was induced by people not communicating their criticism well enough, but it is what it is.

3) The game is pretty fun, quite solid, but missing a lot of things that would make it more enjoyable for the entire run of people that could be playing this. It needs that entire spectrum playing to keep parties filled, so it needs to broaden out the gameplay it presents.

This is just me being objective, because I'm personally not even over how fun it is to do these areas in groups...running from cover to cover, luring away bosses so someone else can rez a dude, healing some other dudes.
It's quite cool.

[Davemetalhead]

I've skimmed this thread, don't really know anything about the game other otherwise ...

I see there's quite a bit of PvE here, is it possible to play the game without any PvP? Am I right in thinking PvP only happens in one zone and it's very clear that you're entering that zone, so possible to avoid?
How are the controls using mouse and keyboard? I'm hopeless with a controller ...

[Endus]

To your example, having an enemy kill you in a second just because you popped your head up at the wrong time is a little overdone. Maybe this is mitigated by gear higher on, but it doesn't provide a nice learning curve for players and that's just indicative of weaker game design than this could have.

The "learning curve" is supposed to be running to 30, and playing Hard difficulty missions. That gives you plenty of time to learn enemy behaviour patterns and such, so that you know that the gleam of a sniper's scope means you should hunker behind cover, by example. The learning curve doesn't start at Challenge Modes. That's supposed to be the peak point, when you already understand how enemies behave and when/how to avoid getting shot.

2) A lot of people don't understand how to express 'this isn't fun' beyond saying 'this is too hard'. The resulting responses to those people are a large cause of what Bovinity was talking about...the whole L2P thing. Essentially your post is an "L2P' post. I'm not criticizing you for it, because it was induced by people not communicating their criticism well enough, but it is what it is.

3) The game is pretty fun, quite solid, but missing a lot of things that would make it more enjoyable for the entire run of people that could be playing this. It needs that entire spectrum playing to keep parties filled, so it needs to broaden out the gameplay it presents.

The thing is, there are other options. CMs are only the "best" option for quickly farming high-end gear and Phoenix Credits, but you can still get some PC daily through Hard missions, which are all easily soloable. That's not "farmable", but if you're a casual player with an hour or two to kill, that's plenty.

If you want to provide an endgame, there needs to be a significant difficulty plateau. You just need to ensure that said difficulty isn't the ONLY path to rewards, just the most efficient for dedicated players who can handle it.

And before anyone says it; yes, I think the PC nerf in the Dark Zone was too strong; I think the Dark Zone should be more rewarding than it currently is. Not AS rewarding as Challenge Modes, but a strong second.

- - - Updated - - -

I've skimmed this thread, don't really know anything about the game other otherwise ...

I see there's quite a bit of PvE here, is it possible to play the game without any PvP? Am I right in thinking PvP only happens in one zone and it's very clear that you're entering that zone, so possible to avoid?

PvP is Dark Zone-only, and optional even there; I've had one guy gank me so far, really. You can see when people get marked as Rogue, and avoid them, so the group of people that are farming noobs are usually easy to avoid unless you're their first victim. It's also pretty punitive right now, so people taking that risk is pretty rare, IME.

And yeah; the Dark Zone is clearly marked and there's loading screens and such; you won't accidentally cross that border or something.

How are the controls using mouse and keyboard? I'm hopeless with a controller ...

I've been playing on PC; controls are fine with M/KB, though you may want to tweak keybinds some. Like with any shooter, I imagine the controls are "better" with M/KB. A Steam controller with the touchpads might be close to comparable.

[grandpab]

I've skimmed this thread, don't really know anything about the game other otherwise ...

I see there's quite a bit of PvE here, is it possible to play the game without any PvP? Am I right in thinking PvP only happens in one zone and it's very clear that you're entering that zone, so possible to avoid?
How are the controls using mouse and keyboard? I'm hopeless with a controller ...

The pvp zone is a big red spot on the map and the entire area is closed off with a wall with doors spread around, so it's pretty hard to accidentally walk into the pvp zone.

You can definitely play the game without any pvp. I didn't go to the pvp zone until I was 30, and even then the only reason I really went was just because it's the fastest way to get some quick purples when you're a fresh 30. You can spam the pve 'dungeons' to get guaranteed purples at the end though, it just takes a little longer.

[Cattleya]

To be fair there have been posts here about how the boss in the first security mission (at the police department parking lot) is impossible/unfair when it can be easily beaten without taking a hit by staying behind cover and killing all the peons first, then when down to the boss stay behind cover until the sniper stands up and fires, then shoot his head. He ducks, you duck, he stands, fires and you stand fire. Rinse and repeat until it dies. Some people think you can just strafe the whole fight while unloading your whole clip like this is 1996 Duke Nukem.

To be fair, turtling it out like that can become incredibly tedious when enemies are huge bullet sponges.

[Kelimbror]

The "learning curve" is supposed to be running to 30, and playing Hard difficulty missions. That gives you plenty of time to learn enemy behaviour patterns and such, so that you know that the gleam of a sniper's scope means you should hunker behind cover, by example. The learning curve doesn't start at Challenge Modes. That's supposed to be the peak point, when you already understand how enemies behave and when/how to avoid getting shot.

I know I said their 'specific example', but I simply meant getting killed from uncovering for a brief moment...not the particular level of the game when their reference happens. This type of response actually happens early on in the game, which is why I think their learning curve is a little off.

While the thugs on the street are easy enough for anyone as long as they don't stand in the middle of the street, some of the encounter mobs/bosses straight from the first one are a little questionable. The rooftop after you resuce the Doctor has the chaingun guy who seems to have infinite ammo. I mean you have to wait for a looong time for him to stop shooting and then pop out. But prior to that, killing all the adds while he's doing his thing seems impossible.

Even knowing what I was supposed to do, I almost got killed a couple of times. I'm not the greatest player, but I can't imagine how that experience is for someone completely new or coming from a Destiny like game where jumping around like a monkey with moonshoes is the best way to survive.

I don't think the game does a great job with the learning curve over the leveling experience, but I'm just in the beginning so I can't speak to how it evolves. It just seems to start too steep, which to me is a flaw. I typically don't like game tutorials, but I think it would have gone a long way to have a simulated party tutorial teaching some basic strategies for moving through cover as a group, how aggro works, how to revive people, etc.

To me it's intuitive enough, so I'm merely speaking from an objective everyman view.

[MrTharne]

For now, but does Dark Zone rank matter once you're already geared?

We don't know if we will need the rank in the futur, if they release stuff that needs a DZ rank 50+ I'll be pretty pissed about losing all that xp.

The best way to be rogue right now ? Make an alt, give him your main's stuff and enjoy.

[DeadmanWalking]

All of a sudden every time someone quotes me it sends me a mail saying I was quoted in my notifications box even if I never left this page. WTH? I only use to get notifications if the Mods dinged me for breaking the rules...

Fun is subjective, different from person to person. I'm not going to assume other people are or are not having fun based on my having or not having fun because I know I don't represent everyone. I am capable of thinking beyond myself. However if I hear someone say the first boss at level 5 is impossible then I am going to assume they didn't figure out how to beat it rather than not being able to express their feelings adequately. You ask the person if they did X tactic and you will find that they didn’t and when they did they beat that boss. If anything people are prone to crying foul because they didn't figure out how it works rather than not being able to express that they are not having fun.

When I play and things get too hairy I try a different tactic than turtle up, I run back. If a rusher is running in and long ranged are setting up in the back and my clip has run dry I run back, this gives me time to reload and forces the long range to move forward. I find that most guys won’t leave the ‘room’ they spawned in and when I turn down a hallway the enemy ai tend to come around the corner in neatly wrapped gift boxes. I did have a yellow boss with a saw come after me once but I kept slipping backwards down a hall until he was dead.

As for run and gun style of play, you can do this too but it won’t work on bosses. Toss down a sentry gun and while the enemy is trying to deal with it you run down some cover on the side and chew them up from a flank. I have a saw with 200 bullets per clip and even it can’t chew through a boss before the clip runs dry.

[Konahh]

For now, but does Dark Zone rank matter once you're already geared?

I am currently at 55 DZ Rank and it has had almost no effect on my gearing other than being able to cheese some mats. The farm to get there was much more beneficial for gear. Perhaps when the vendor resets next week I might get an upgrade.

[Treeskee]

A lot of this wont be news to people, but thought I'd post it for others as at the very least it's got some helpful info:
Damage & Mitigation Guide

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm kinda sad there is no CM with Cleaners, I love fighting them.

I would love a CM or Raid with cleaners. There is something that is just highly enjoyable when you watch them explode lol. A few of the missions with them can turn into a Michael Bay film.

- - - Updated - - -

--snip--

So like I said you are in full 31 gear and think everyone is having the same experince as you. You do realise having the best current gear or even future gear (next to raids) isn't the experince of everyone else right. There is a reason you can bullet sponge a few shots and have nice uptime on abilitys.

Thanks for proving my point. So tired of the tools entering the thread in full 31 gear and saying (Hey Guys Do X and It Will Work) when the only reason they can do X is because they farmed a fuck ton of PC and geared up.

[Skulltaker]

Some quick advice, I have almost enough phoenix coins to purchase my first legendary weapon 'recipie', shall I wait for a named one that suits my playstyle? Currently available is the vlack market ak74.

is there a general guideline what to get and what not?

[Deleted]

I would love a CM or Raid with cleaners. There is something that is just highly enjoyable when you watch them explode lol. A few of the missions with them can turn into a Michael Bay film.

- - - Updated - - -


So like I said you are in full 31 gear and think everyone is having the same experince as you. You do realise having the best current gear or even future gear (next to raids) isn't the experince of everyone else right. There is a reason you can bullet sponge a few shots and have nice uptime on abilitys.

Thanks for proving my point. So tired of the tools entering the thread in full 31 gear and saying (Hey Guys Do X and It Will Work) when the only reason they can do X is because they farmed a fuck ton of PC and geared up.

How often do I have to repeat myself, I started with purps too and I did challenge with all purps but an high end weapon, you can buy a good one with credits, the LMG is actually extremely decent. Any purp AK however can do the same, you are just losing 1 talent, you aint even losing any significant amount of DPS. Most people don't even have 3 good talents on a weapon, because there are like 20 to roll from and getting 3 good ones is rare. It took me 20 AKs to roll one with 2 strong ones and one good one.

I said you can do lexington in 20 min, I do it in less than 10 with my gear. but it'll only take you about 10 runs to get on the same level as me. Which are either 3x all dailies, or just straight 3 hours of lexington. (or tunnel)
Anyhow, you can reach over 100k DPS and 60k life. I even had 80-90k when I was in purps (but less DPS than what I have now).

And the reason why I have full uptime on skills is because I use skills that add skill recovery, I have 1000 electronics and 0 skillhaste. So much about that.

[Jtbrig7390]

How often do I have to repeat myself, I started with purps too and I did challenge with all purps but an high end weapon.

Ya I bet you did pumpkin.

[Kathandira]

Ya I bet you did pumpkin.

"Bless your heart, sugar"

[Edge-]

Alright folks, things have been toeing the line for a while but let's remember to be respectful of other posters. Friendly reminder, because I'd like to nip things in the bud before things cross the line.

[Jaese]

Ya I bet you did pumpkin.

I've read the past few pages of this thread and the one common theme here among all your squabbling is that you refuse to believe what others say (whether that be their gear or their experiences) and instead insist that your personal experience coupled with insinuation that others are lying is the fact of the matter.

Is it so hard to accept that you are indeed, a "bad"? It's not a bad thing, although the term insinuates as much; why do you have such a hard time reconciling the idea you may not be as skilled as you think you are?

[Kelimbror]

Yeah, and I think the scaling is off at the lower levels. Oddly enough, it gets a lot better as you level. But at the lower levels people take way too long to kill and you seem way too fragile.

That and level scaling is brutal. A mob just one level above you is vastly more powerful than you'd expect.

Perhaps this is what I was noticing, because that would make a lot of sense. I understand needing to adapat to the non insta kill headshot, bullet sponge type of enemies in order to enact cover strategy as a primary facet of gameplay, but it seems heavy handed from the get go.

I also find it ironic that the mobs who YOLO charge at you tell you that the gameplay rules are garbage and you should just leeroy jenkins into the fray...which leads to them almost one shotting you at low levels. Very weird message to send especially if they want you in cover 90% of the time.