BLIZZARD SHAME ON YOU! Future early game...

[Charge me Doctor]

IMO Heirloom items should be equal to green items of your level.

But tough shit OP, want leveling to be challenging? Sell quest rewards, don't use heirloom and equip only crap that dropped or you crafted yourself. Current low-level quest rewards are nowhere near of what they used to be. When i leveled last toon without heirlooms it wasn't that much different because i constantly got new gear without getting to dungeons (why the fuck would you even go to these places, in a single run you get like 3 levels and outlevel your current location, what fun in that?), which is quite similar to heirlooms

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There's definitely been power creep with heirlooms, but if people are soloing dungeons without the need of a party, then it does get boring and can impact the experiences of others. Newer players would be the most effected, which could hurt long term retention of these players.

It has little to nothing to do with items, it's just classes being not balanced at low levels. Some tanks can manage everything by themselves both damage and healing

[Wolfrick]

No they have not. Even in classic, Deadmines possessed no challenge whatsoever. You barely even had talents at that point, how could it?
Obviously heirlooms make some things even easier, but this is irrelevant because the game is now all about max level.

Whether you agree with that decision is irrelevant.
If you want to play WoW, get to 100.

Mate, the point is "level 1" is the start of an Adventure... so how do you judge a HOUSE, you do it by it foundation... so if you just have to run behind a full heirloom guy at low leves... you will demand that at max level to (AKA, LFR) this type of early system of leveling create a bad habit for new players.

So, if the start is so really easy and you learn nothing, then the Entire House risks of Falling down.

I am Love this game, SO I will do all in my power to make this House stand and even make it stronger then ever befour.

PS: I know there are some Burned out people, give them a Huge buff, so they just have to do a Dungeon 1 time, instead of 4 times, this will do it so that the guy who have done that instance 1000 times, does only need to do it 1 time.

PSS: THE World of Warcraft need to be New pLayer friendly, which mean, Challenging and makeing people pay for there mistakes, so that they learn. since like is about making mistakes and learn from them.

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It is a huge problem with the game right now that the levelling experience is not at all engaging in dungeons. Something needs to be done, because it really turns new players off.



This kind of mentality is the problem.
WoW has content from 1-100. it has dungeon content from 15-100. The content in the 85 levels from 15-100 doesn't matter?

What is keeping new players engaged? The questing experience, which has no group-up content left. Even "group quests" are easily soloed without heirlooms.

This is a huge problem. It's nothing to do with an opinion, it's a fact that this degree of lack of tuning at lower levels makes players feel less inclined to play. It's a failing on Blizzard's part, and they've said so many times before, but seem disinterested in doing anything about it.

Very true, its like a game who has 1-100 content where all the fun is palced in 90-100... "not good"

We care aloot for this game, so I give my best hopes that blizzard sees this and start to think about it, thanks for your imput.

Cheers mate

[Charge me Doctor]

Well, it is gonna cost resources that one probably would rather see spend on different things - so I suppose the option to chose a "hard" or "wipe me baby" difficulty won't happen. Plus: people probably will expect better rewards for a higher difficulty.

Me, I just avoid 5 mans and level to 100 the old fashion way. Not that it makes sense, I still have a lv 90 boost, but I like levelling....even if it is easy.

This guy gets it, if you want "hard" leveling experience - don't go to dungeons, dungeons give too much free exp and loot, and are boring, because they are supposed to be easier than normal 100 dungeons

[Wolfrick]

With or without Heirlooms dungeons are far too easy.

It's been quite the discussion lately on how Blizzard can improve the leveling experience. It's something that they should have figured out before the Movie comes out.

I'll never forget my first time recieving a guest pass and logging into Elwyn Forest, killing Kobolds was boring, but teaming up with random people to make it quicker and having social interactions made it awesome, all while seeing my power increase. Going to Goldshire where I would first see high level players, and then getting ganked by a level 60 Warlocks and his Infernal for being dumb enough to be flagged for PvP.

At Deadmines I was completely sold. At first it was just this typical cave with Defias in it, meh big deal. Then it opens up into this smelting room, and we wipe because we didn't expect the patrols. Then this dank cave opens up and there is a giant boat we have to conquer.

Now by around TBC leveling dungeons were far easier since the veteran community understood how basic they were, and a sword and board tank not really needed. But they still had a good pacing. Now we just plow through them.

WOW, you just read my post and make even a better statement then me, thanks for the input, and they should Fix it befour the Movie, since that would keep aloot of new players.

Wish you a great day, My friend

[Charge me Doctor]

Mate, the point is "level 1" is the start of an Adventure... so how do you judge a HOUSE, you do it by it foundation... so if you just have to run behind a full heirloom guy at low leves... you will demand that at max level to (AKA, LFR) this type of early system of leveling create a bad habit for new players.

You are not forced to use dungeon finder or looking for raid - you are free to get 4 more people in SW / westfall, walk to dungeon entrance and finish dungeon without anyone equipping any heirloom shit. Will it take more time? Yes. Will it be less rewarding? Yes. But by your own definition it will be more fun, so, go for it.

You talk about "habits" but don't understand that you are part of the problem - why do you even use dungeon finder on low level toon instead of assembling group by yourself? You can make stuff challenging again by yourself, you don't need blizzard to do that for you, your just choose not to

[Biggles Worth]

wow is dead rip

[Wolfrick]

Blizzard want us to experience their new content as soon as possible, the problem is I don't. A lot of people don't understand that some prefer the journey rather then the destination.

Yeah that is true, its Exactly what I am talkilng about, since we have 1-100 content then why not make it challenging from 1-100... that way it will take more time and you will enjoy they entire Adventure.

Thanks for your imput buddy

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Sounds like someone who never played deadmines before like, wrath.

Absolutly YES! i had to laught so hard when I read this.

Thanks for the imput bro

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Seems like a troll post, but I kind of agree. Low level content has become absolutely pathetic, even if you're not decked out in heirlooms. You don't have to rub two brain cells together to figure anything out. It's all there for you - zones are highlighted to show you where to go, arrows point you the right way, mobs are weak as shit, quests are many in number and short in duration, you need hardly any experience to level, etc etc.

These are all changes that increase efficiency of leveling. And perhaps there was a time when they were useful. But that time is past us, now that we have the ability to buy a max level character. We no longer need these efficiency increasing measures to simply reach endgame.

Let us return to prioritizing fun.

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Yep. I think what many people don't understand is that your regular, run of the mill content used to be hard. And not just hard in the sense that things had more health and did more damage. Hard in the sense that often, you would have to figure out what exactly you were supposed to do for yourself, instead of having it handed to you by the UI.

Hmmm, this was an interesting topic, I remember when CC was a core part of a Trash pull inside a Dungeon, not says that it suppose to be so all over, but you are very right, since there is a boost. why not make it challenging again, it will promote people who like to play the game, and that will bring more people to the table since Creating new players that love this game will make them want to bring there friends to the table.

Just like I did in Vanilla, BC, Wrath.

PS: I still do bring friends, but they just quit befour level 40....

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So what, they're supposed to be absolute bore-fests that can be auto-attacked through?

hahahaha, yeah! its like these kind of people would just want to start at level 90, and just remove the entire WORLD from Warcraft... its quite sad to see people like this.


Thanks for your imput mate

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There's definitely been power creep with heirlooms, but if people are soloing dungeons without the need of a party, then it does get boring and can impact the experiences of others. Newer players would be the most effected, which could hurt long term retention of these players.

Unfortunately, this late in the Wow's life-cycle a lot of people prefer this. Leveling isn't a journey anymore and hasn't been for a long time. It's all about the rush to get to max level and participate in the hamster-wheel of loot upgrades. When people are on their 4th, 9th, 16th character the difficulty of a low level dungeon they will complete once isn't important if they can complete it quickly, painlessly and simply move on.

I personally think it's detrimental to the game, but I would imagine I'm a minority.

Hey mate, you are not in a Minority, just read on the Comments ahead, we are getting words out there that things have to change for the better, and speaking out about it is good, since in the past only the "whiners (MAKE IT EASY)" talked, but that time is over!!! WE WHO CARES ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF world of warcraft, have to speak out.


Thanks for your imput, I really like your Point

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I personally don't like it either, but as you said it's a power creep, which blizzard is at fault for. the issue is there is no good solution other than group up 5 people and do dungeons that way, without heirlooms.

not a good one, but that's what you got. I also wish people could actully read the bloody thread before quoting, but hey humanity is dumb.

Its an MMORPG.... what is not good about, "grouping up 5 people to do a dungeon" its suppose to be that way... that is the solution.

Thanks for your imput, and I agree with you that sometimes people tend to comment with out readoing the posts

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Well, it is easy to make WOW more challenging. Don't use heirlooms, equip lower ilevel gear on purpose, etc. Yet you don't really see players doing that, do you? I don't think most people want a challenging leveling experience. Most people playing WOW have been playing for awhile now. They have plenty of alts and have probably played through the leveling zones many times.

Not sure they are looking for a challenge the 9th or 10th time they play through Westfall again.... They most likely just want to power through to get their latest alt to max level as quick as possible...

I would also argue that forming a group with like minded people is also a core part of an mmo. Most players don't focus on leveling in mmo anymore. They run through the game to get to end game, which is what they focus on. Are they playing wrong? I would argue no. The great thing about an mmo is you (mostly) can decide how you want to play. That is why I recommended that you find a group of players that want challenging leveling (like you do). You don't have to "shout" to find them, a simple post on the WOW forums will probably do it.

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Speaking of Deadmines, it would be nice if they brought back the old version as a timewalk or similar limited event. There were some epic moments in there and I don't think the current version captures the same flavor.

I agre about the Old Deadmines, I loved that place, each and every bit of it.

But to the rest of your statement, I do play as you say, just to make it harder, I even Block my level each 5 levels to slow down my leveling and enjoying the LORE and ENTIRE Quest chains in a zone.

The isssue is also that not getting to finish the entire zone, people miss out on the Lore and the story, that could make them care more for this game.

about the "7 or 10 time" people do the same thing, ok, how about Blizz give them a "SUPER Experiance buff" that make them level up 4 time faster, this will make those rushers just dissaper fater 1 run in a dungeon, so out of 4 dungeons, 3 times will be without a burned out person, which means that people can experiance the game as it should me, "talking and having a good time together".

Thanks for your imput

[Bluesftw]

dungeons are fine, its just heirlooms making it stupidly easy, recently i had to level new toon to 20 for hs hero, this is how it went: full heirloom geared hunter 1-10 quests , 10-17 solo rfc (qued for random dungeon at 15, just got 2 levels waiting for group), 17-20 carrying random dungeons... it was ridiculus

[Wolfrick]

With the new scaling technology being developed, they could theoretically let you choose difficulty levels while leveling or queuing for dungeons, think diablo style difficulty settings.

Hmm, Interesting. but the Heirlooms would always be in our way... Sadly.


But I also think that there is a huge Potential in the "WORLD Scaling technology",

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I used to really enjoy them levelling, where they did actually pose some challenge, not absurd, but it was there.

Then again, that was in teh days of finding a group and travelling to the instance, so groups stuck together and made it through despite occasional wipes.
The downside of so easy accessibility, is there is no investment now, so no one will tolerate a "challenge".

Low levels are a fucking joke now, pve and pvp, to the point that I doubt any new player sticks around, its such a bad representation of the game.

Sadly... this is true. It has to get Fixed for the best of this game, I really hope Blizzard reads this Topic and maybe get some good ideas from our Comments.

Thanks for your imput

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Honestly the level scaling in FFXIV makes me enjoy the dungeons there a lot more. I tried WoW for the first time in 8 months for the hearthstone thing and was amazed i had forgotten what a shitshow low level dungeons are, and if you dont know any better it might be fine and you would shrug it off as 'eh its just low level' but it was so boring and lame.

Bare in mind this is from someone that played since Vanilla, what the hell does someone whos never played before think of their first modern WoW dungeon run? How do you learn your role? how do you learn about dots, aoes, movement and priorities and so on?

Its a mad zerg to the end for easy blues and xp and i was sincerely shocked how bad it is after 8 months of FFXIV's level scaling where you have to for the most part behave like a party. Tanks still need to watch threat, dps need to watch kill orders and stuns and so on and healers need to look out for things like poisons and enemy cc's.

Its a horrid experience and earlier in the week as i ran some rogue from 15 to 20 i saw about a dozen people not in heirlooms saying "i never played mmos before i only play hearthstone, why would you pay for this its horrible" and i can tell them they are wrong.

Much as my big problem with WoD was a dull endgame they really, really need to re-evaluate what they do with early dungeons. Right now they are an awful experience that would only drive a new player away.

Very good points, I can see that your Experiance are the same as my friends and as I had. lets hope blizzard puts some effort into the early leveling, I am not into game Design, but I dont think it would take that much, since its not about Changing the content just making Mobs hit harder, Remove Herilooms, ecc.

thanks for the imput

PS: I also got Shocked how easy it was, since I am a "1 character" kind of a guy, I hadn`t leveled in years

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Well that is highly subjective. I played back in Vanilla days as a rogue on Bonechewer. People for some reason or another love, absolutely LOVE to overestimate how difficult it was. Me, as a rogue, could kill up to three mobs at a time, but it would require me to eat after, that wasn't fun, that was monotonous. Levelling took a long time because the XP gain was much slower, but was doing more "Kill X" quests really a great way to spend your time? Was that so very much more fun then what we have now? Not really, in my opinion anyways. I already played through the experience once, it was fun, because it was new. Now i never want to go back to that ever again.

Though i agree that Heirlooms make dungeons easy, just put Heirloom people in a different queue.

My point is not to Turn backwards, but just focus on Making it challenging, and Interesting.

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Low level dungeons are not designed to be tricky anymore. Nor should they be. Should present a pace that's calm but not take a damn eternity to finish because people were wiping on RFCS first boss . Levelling dungeons should present ease, Heroics should have a challenge at the start and Mythic tbh should have mechanics that if you screw up you die for the gear it's currently dropping because from recent vids I've seen people are zerging them.

So you are saying that from 1-99 it should be "easy mode" and at level 100, it should get challenging... so you are acctualy saying that in an MMORPG GAME... Called "WOLRD of Warcraft"... 99% of the game, should be easy.... and 1% should be Challenging and maybe 0.1% should be hard....


Whow... that sounds fun..... (NOT)

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The problem is for every person who wants a challenge in leveling there are 4-5 people who don't and just want it over as soon as possible. Maybe a better option would be to make a separate queues 1 for those with heirlooms and 1 for those without? Or maybe use the timewalking method and all dungeons are scaled to a certain level and no matter if you use heirlooms of not you can only have a set level of stats?

I might wonder where you take your " 1 to 4-5" stats from, since as you see in this forum, there are more Comments that want the change then those that dont.

so, I am sorry my friend, you are mistaken. ( btw, if some people want to rush and just Break the Enjoyment of the game, just hand them a Super buff or they can buy the Boost, since in Cataclysm "when things started to get EASYMODE" there was no Boost to max level)

[Super Kami Dende]

If you don't want the Tank pulling fast. You Tank. In lowbie gear.

Hell even in non-heirloom gear tanks can mostly solo low-level instances. It is just how they scale.

Also, you've had years to experience the dungeons. Others have been doing them for years. There is no point in making the low level trivial shit longer and more monotonous for no reason.

They are meant to be beginner easy dungeons, where people are just learning their classes and learning being in a group.

Even in Vanilla Deadmines was cakewalk.

[Wolfrick]

Yes, the challenge should be adjusted,but I doubt it will be until a major revamp occurs.

This is what I am sceard of... I really hope the address the issue befour it gets so far...

The best would be to do it befour the movie, my HOpes are up. since I would love to see World of Warcraft REACH 20 million subcribers and stay there, nothing would make me happier

[RickJamesLich]

low level dungeons has never been meant to be challenging ever

Cata baby spotted

[Super Kami Dende]

Cata baby spotted

Horrible player spotted.

Apart from BRD/Ubrs/Lbrs/Strath/Scholo and to a smaller extent Sunken Temple or Zul'farrak which were all close/closer to level cap in Vanilla, Dungeons below 40 were trivial in difficulty.

[Wolfrick]

IMO Heirloom items should be equal to green items of your level.

But tough shit OP, want leveling to be challenging? Sell quest rewards, don't use heirloom and equip only crap that dropped or you crafted yourself. Current low-level quest rewards are nowhere near of what they used to be. When i leveled last toon without heirlooms it wasn't that much different because i constantly got new gear without getting to dungeons (why the fuck would you even go to these places, in a single run you get like 3 levels and outlevel your current location, what fun in that?), which is quite similar to heirlooms

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It has little to nothing to do with items, it's just classes being not balanced at low levels. Some tanks can manage everything by themselves both damage and healing

Hey mate,

First, I always block my Experiance befour I go into a dungeon, so that when I go back to the quest area I dont out level it

second, I do go in to dungeons to meet people and to do MMORPG content, I like to play with people and experiance the Lore with them.

Third, just to make thing hard, I have level 5 white gear (Just to look cool, since I am Italian "Its all about the look" ) and my toon is level 16, so its hard.

[Axphism]

I actually enjoy tossing on all of my heirloom gear and going through all of these dungeons. It's a lot more fun than "Mage, poly the moon. Hunter, trap the square. Rogue, sap the star" for an hour.

The dungeons are nothing like they used to be, for the most part, anymore anyhow.

I don't think there's an issue, but if it changed to make other people happy I wouldn't care either.

[Wolfrick]

dungeons are fine, its just heirlooms making it stupidly easy, recently i had to level new toon to 20 for hs hero, this is how it went: full heirloom geared hunter 1-10 quests , 10-17 solo rfc (qued for random dungeon at 15, just got 2 levels waiting for group), 17-20 carrying random dungeons... it was ridiculus

yeah it is... 20 levels in less then some hours...

[RickJamesLich]

To be honest the type of players WoW attracts has changed. It was more about strategy, taking your time and planning out pulls before hand... coming in with a few potions perhaps, making friends in the process. Nowadays people just don't want to use their brain when they do 5 mans while leveling, so stuff like just running around and aoe'ing everything is considered "good". Personally I think the new system is a lot more boring, but I don't think it's going to change much because if they ever did make it require skill or brain power again people would probably threaten to quit the game lol.

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Horrible player spotted.

Apart from BRD/Ubrs/Lbrs/Strath/Scholo and to a smaller extent Sunken Temple or Zul'farrak which were all close/closer to level cap in Vanilla, Dungeons below 40 were trivial in difficulty.

Be honest, you didn't play vanilla, did you?

[Deleted]

Blizzard shame on you!

I Love you guys and all you have done "wow, Diablo, Heartstone ecc" but....

I just played the DUNGEON "DEAD MINES".... I was so exited to try it out on low level since I have not leved up someone for a long time...


You know what happen!!!! THE TANK was covered from top to tow with heirlooms.... he just one manned the instance... the entire group just run after him... WHERE THE HELL IS THE FUN IN THAT.... "JESUS".... (sorry for my Anger...) but Instances should be challengein even at low levels, new people... will get bord befour level 40 and just leave... "that makes me so sad" since when I was in Vanilla, it was so fun to level (SINCE IT WAS CHALLENGING).

As it was now... it was not a Dungeons to fight enemis... is was a JOGGING CAVERN....


here are some of my suggestions, to make this post consctructive:


Suggestion 1: REMOVE the stats from all the heirlooms (leave the exp, if peopel wanna level fast)

Suggestion 2: Keep the Heirlooms as they are, but make them not usable in Dungeons (Since they ruin the fun, Completley...)

Suggestion 3: Keep the heirlooms as just transmog and give us some other way to get more Experiance to level faster.

PS: If you as me, I would remove Heirloom completly... they are destroying the early game and leveling part (which was aloot of fun in Vanilla and BC) we have the "level 100" boost, so if people wanna level up fast, then let them get get boost...

PSS: I level in "WHITE" gear and "Block my Experiance each 5 levels just to keep the leveling part challenging.

Blizzard, this words are not to hurt you, but is just and only because I care for World of Warcraft and as it is now, NEW PLAYERS... get board while leveling.

In the end.... its all about beeing Challenging...

Where ... where the flying fuck have you been ...

Cataclysm was over 5 years ago bro ...

[Kuja]

Dungeons are there to provide an alternative way to level up and get gear, not to bring challenge. Challenge waits in Heroic, Challenge and Mythic dungeons.

Challenging normals just don't work. Wildstar made the mistake of making normal dungeons so hard that you couldn't pug them without creating a wipefest.

[Axphism]

Where ... where the flying fuck have you been ...

Cataclysm was over 5 years ago bro ...

Lmao I initially thought that too. I can only assume he left the game for a few years.