College student wants free college&15 Dollars min wage has no idea how to pay for it

[Emjay18]

What? Higher education IS about jobs

Job Training =/= Higher education

University is a collaboration of scholars. Job training is training to perform a specific task. That's why liberal arts was the mainstay of higher ed for many, many hundreds of years -- it was considered a tertiary, secondary education in order to create a more logical and educated citizen.

[nightfalls]

1) The average salary in the US is $50,756. It would take 6,550 hours to get that.
2) The average price of gas was just under $2 by the last report AAA had. That's about right.
3) The average price of a loaf of bread is $2.32 by the first site I found. So, closer to 3 loaves than four.
4) And KBB says a new subcompact is around 17-18k, which is actually better by today's money by a small amount.

So, about the same so far. Seems legit. Raising the minimum wage, so far, doesn't seem all that critical.

THEN comes college tuition.

UPenn was kind enough to list these values from 1960. Tuition was $1,250. Under a third of the average salary, half the cost of a new car, and of course 1,250 hours of minimum wage.

UPenn's current tuition is $51,464. That's more than the average salary, triple a subcompact, and 6,640 hours of minimum wage, or 127 hours/week. A week has 168 hours.

And UPenn is hardly the only one with this issue. If they were the only ones increasing tuition so much, they'd be out of business. But it's an industry-wide issue. I know, I'm part of the problem.

What is the average aid package given out by UPenn in 1960 vs. 2016? (ONLY from the college, not from federal or state aid). Then look at federal and state aid. Most of this is need-based, but because we're looking at minimum wage workers, it's likely that they will get the maximum possible aid package.

(Of course, rich students will have to pay the full $51,464 versus $1,250, but you, like I, are probably not shedding tears for them).

As people put there are far more reasonable and politically feasible ways to lower the worst problems of college funding. Income-based repayment is a program Hillary has touted. There's already things such as federal interest rate subsidization on student loans.

Governments could provide or subsidize student loan defaults, which will both lower interest rates (generally everyone loses on a default) and ensure more loan availability at cheaper rates and better terms. It also prevents defaults from fucking over the least fortunate - it is well known that student loan debt is one of the few debts not discharged by bankruptcy in the US.

[nightfalls]

Couple of replies:

People already do this, how is your argument even close to stating that free college would result in this? =|

It's not the whole reason, it's actually a very small part (also because my claim is admittedly quite difficult to prove). So you can think of that 2nd thing as more venting than a serious point.

That's absurd logic. Continuing education has been proven, for atleast a century, that it only increases wages, real estate appreciation, quality of life, and more productivity. There is no legitimate criticism of having too many educated people in society, it is always a huge net benefit for the economy on down to community and crime rates.

This said, "education" depends as much, if not more, on the student as it does the college, no?

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High-end colleges aside. I think community colleges should be free with mid-level universities being re-structured to be lower cost at the very least. You don't need a country full of Harvard grads to better our country as a whole so they can keep their cost and exclusivity.

I can agree with public university restructuring (with state ones having lower in-state costs) and I can agree with a focus on community colleges, if anything, to ruin the "for-profit college" industry.

Harvard is a red herring. I know some who went there from low-income families, they did so nearly for free. The aid package is huge. The exclusivity from Harvard does not come from the price, it comes from the sub-6% admission rate... out of really not that many people applying.

(You can debate legacy admissions which are a whole different topic, but suffice it to say, most of them are the ones paying the full ticket price which subsidizes the cost for the ones getting need-based aid).

[fwc577]

It's not really that I'm against the lib arts, per se. How should I put it... The jobs pertaining to the degree aren't necessarily in demand, which is why a lot of people complain that they can't get jobs (which ultimately leads to this being a problem with paying back loans, which is the only reason this is even a topic). College was always a invest into your future sort of thing. Community colleges and state schools are relatively cheap (at least in NY) such that the only reason one would not be able to pay back student loans would really be because they can't find a college degree job. I'm not wording this right because I'm half asleep, but in the end not being able to pay back student loans is often due to the person themselves not working hard in college to get grades/internships/etc that would lead to getting a job in their field. It's more complicated and I know that's not how it is for everyone, but that's what happens when people say "get a degree in what you like" instead of "get a degree in a field that is hiring" especially when certain people go to schools with such high tuition rates.

EDIT: also as to what you said, yeah, but people majoring in lib arts believe they'll be the next author or columnist for the NYT and won't settle for anything else, even with their subpar grades (Seen it so many times)

Well, if you're going to college to get a lib arts degree to be the next NYT best selling author, you're doing it wrong. This coming from someone who hopes to retire early from IT. :P

[Xandrigity]

I fell sorry for the kid. This poor Debbie do right is going to carry this moment of shame to every job interview or pretty much a thing else for some time.

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Well, if you're going to college to get a lib arts degree to be the next NYT best selling author, you're doing it wrong. This coming from someone who hopes to retire early from IT. :P

I have a cousin with a masters degree in library science. She is still working at a Starbucks 7 years later

[Breccia]

What is the average aid package given out by UPenn in 1960 vs. 2016? (ONLY from the college, not from federal or state aid).

I'm fairly sure that's impossible to answer, since a large chunk of what many colleges give as aid was given to them by the state itself. UPenn itself is private (as if the $51k didn't tell you), but gets a huge chunk of state money into its budget. And they're Ivy League (they are, right?), so your average minimum wage worker's child isn't going there, because that child very likely went to really crappy schools...sigh...the US education systems has a lot of problems.

[fwc577]

This is more or less what I would say as well, though currently (in NY at least) community college is about 4-5k/year, and in state tuition state schools are 10-11k/year. I'd prefer scholarships over making them free since the cost isn't so high it will bankrupt someone, but something should change.

Also as a side note, I have a few friends in harvard, MIT, dartmouth, columbia. They have some great scholarships indeed.

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Hahahaha I would totally agree. Realistically, though, one should understand that it is a possibility that won't happen since what, like 75% or more of all majors are of lib arts? Personal accountability like isn't a thing to those complaining, especially the ones who get low grades and then can't get even an internship :/ (and its sooo much easier to get decent grades in lib arts than others, which baffles me)

I went to school for nursing then IT, the whole point was to have a job so that I could make money while writing, just in case it doesn't work out. In the meantime, while doing school and working, I've done a lot of side work to build myself as a writer, taken various courses, I have close to 100 craft books on my bookshelf and I've read and taken notes on every one of them, and then I read and write fiction that I enjoy. I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it because I love to write, if I need money, that's why I went to school for a degree in something useful. :P

[melodramocracy]

"God damn these young punks wanting free education"
-Old men who grew up in a time when education was free.

When do you think that was, exactly?

[Annoying]

And what did those scholars do? Teach source material to people of which those people would eventually take over and do themselves.

I understand where you are coming from, and you are somewhat correct. But lets keep this debate focused on, I don't know, lets say education of the present?

That's only half of what they do, though. They get grants and do research. We have professors at the local college who only teach one course and spend 90% of their time on research grants.

[GennGreymane]

People want to pay for wars in the M.E, but dont know how to pay for them.

[Illiterate]

I'm sure they could save a lot of money if they stopped spreading "freedom" to random 3rd world shitholes.

[Mafic]

College tuition should be free.

If a person is still playing their college loans in their 40's and 50s then they are not buying that other house or a new car..which crashes the economy. If you don't understand why free college tuition is important to capitalism then you are bad capitalist.

[Gryphoon]

$15 minimum wage in a country with as low taxes as U.S.A. What the heck are they wasting their money on? I consider my job to be good pay, and so does most people, at $14, which is then taxed down to $10 before I get to see any of it. Even with our low wage of $10 per hour you can own an apartment, get by just fine and also have money over for extras in life like hobbies and other activities. Then again, these student haven't even graduated and they seem to know zero about economics so it's no wonder they can't take responsibility when it comes to keeping their money in control.

[Kathandira]

My cousin got her nursing license. Found a job within a day, lol.

Got a degree in IT, internship was a requirement to graduate. They kept me on as an intern past my required hours and eventually hired me on as salary.

IT and Healthcare are where it's at.

And then you can do what I did, and work in the IT Field of the Medical industry. Double Win!

[Toxigen]

Maybe if these kids realized no single individual deserves anything in life and you achieve goals through hard work and dedication...


...oh wait, no one ever taught them that. Shitter generation is shitter.


Less underwater basketweaving and more engineers, please.

[Freese]

When I see post like this a small part of me hopes that Trump wins. A lot of people really do deserve what will be coming to them.

Never thought I would agree with a Packers fan...

[Kathandira]

If I had a say, which I really don't. I would say we should cut National Defense costs in order to make Community Colleges for an Associates Degree, and 2 year Technical Schools tuition free. Anything past a 2 year school, can continue to charge tuition as they see fit.

This will at least allow people to learn a trade or skill where they can begin to focus on their career of choice. If they want to further than career by seeking additional education, they can pay for that.

Unfortunately, the current free education we have, only prepares you for continued education, not the work force. (The current free education being Grade School and High School which is purely academic and not focused on careers. )

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I fell sorry for the kid. This poor Debbie do right is going to carry this moment of shame to every job interview or pretty much a thing else for some time.

I honestly wouldn't fault a person under the age of 22 for not having all the answers to very big questions. I applaud her for being concerned with the state of the nation's education and finances.

[Xires]

Conceptually "educate our citizens to better improve our country" sounds like a great idea. I'm not entirely sure why certain people are scared of knowledge being made more readily available unless your're a feudal lord hearing stories of the printing press.

How many people actually want to go to college? How many people did shitty in high school yet demand free college? Education doesn't equate to common sense which the left tends to be lacking. The left thought they were so smart when they created open borders in Europe and now they are reaping what they sowed. How did they do it? By thinking with feelings rather then logic. When you have to TEACH grown men not to rape your women then you have fucked up.
These murders and terrorist attacks were created by the left. Just like the left bitching about college (how are you going to pay the teachers salary?) Oh...the lefts answer will be....more taxes... and who will get taxed? The middle class.
Want free college? You've been able to get free college in the US since 1944. It is called put your money where your mouth is and enlist. For those of you CoD players that think enlisting means you'll be firing a rifle- well hate to bust your bubble but their are hundreds of jobs in the US military that do not involve you EVER having to fire a weapon at anybody and MOST people in the US military only hold a weapon once a year when they go and fire fake rounds during a computer simulation(Air Force and Navy). 90% of military personnel NEVER come close to combat. So grab your balls and man the fuck up and quit making pussy excuses and EARN a free education. Be a fireman. Computer tech. Mechanic. Aviation. HUNDREDS of choices that involve you NOT shooting at someone. So until then....stfu with your "free" college.

[Kathandira]

How many people actually want to go to college? How many people did shitty in high school yet demand free college? Education doesn't equate to common sense which the left tends to be lacking. The left thought they were so smart when they created open borders in Europe and now they are reaping what they sowed. How did they do it? By thinking with feelings rather then logic. When you have to TEACH grown men not to rape your women then you have fucked up.
These murders and terrorist attacks were created by the left. Just like the left bitching about college (how are you going to pay the teachers salary?) Oh...the lefts answer will be....more taxes... and who will get taxed? The middle class.
Want free college? You've been able to get free college in the US since 1944. It is called put your money where your mouth is and enlist. For those of you CoD players that think enlisting means you'll be firing a rifle- well hate to bust your bubble but their are hundreds of jobs in the US military that do not involve you EVER having to fire a weapon at anybody and MOST people in the US military only hold a weapon once a year when they go and fire fake rounds during a computer simulation(Air Force and Navy). 90% of military personnel NEVER come close to combat. So grab your balls and man the fuck up and quit making pussy excuses and EARN a free education. Be a fireman. Computer tech. Mechanic. Aviation. HUNDREDS of choices that involve you NOT shooting at someone. So until then....stfu with your "free" college.

Instead of increasing Taxes, why not find things we grossly over spend on, and divert some funds to education?

[Not jaylock at all]

Bread is currently $3-5 with 7.25 min wage. You bump the wage up to $15 bread is going to be $9-12. After that people are going to ask for $30 min wage then bread will be $20-25. More people will riot for $45/hr min wage then bread will cost $30-35. When will it stop if this happens. Raising min wage wont fix anything, it will just make the dollar look like trash. Those complaining about their minwage job trying to support a family most likely had some bad life choices and its their own fault for putting themselves in that mess. Ie the lady working at mcdonalds with 5 children and only 22 without a ged/diploma. Im not saying all of these people are like that but a lot of the complainers should look at themselves.