Wow, world harder and more challenging!

[Deleted]

No danger in the open world was for me one of the main reasons to cancel my subscription. When the open world was actually dangeres it was challenging and it felt like a adventure that required some teamwork from time to time. Now all danger is gone (even without heirlooms) there is no sense of adventure anymore, it feels empty and grindy. As a casual gamer leveling was one of my favorite aspects of the game, it was fun meeting new people and helping each other out. Now all of that is gone i have no reason to play WoW anymore because all there is left is raiding and i don't like raiding.

The same goes for dungeons, i remember how valued and important i felt as a mage, keeping my target sheeped to keep the group safe and helping people out with food and drinks. Now you are just a random dps'er, a number, a nobody.

[Wolfrick]

It was certainly more difficult to level in vanilla. And more tedious.

It wasn't the actual fighting that was difficult, but you had to be reaaaally careful. One overconfident pull and you were toast.
By today's standards it may seem that it wasn't "real" difficulty, but back then it was the best they could to with the limited technology.
Nowadays difficulty should be achieved by actual game mechanics. (However you would still have to buff NPC health and DPS to have any semblance of danger)

I agree, but as a starter they could buff the health and damage, but again, we are not after making it Exactly as in vanilla (Tedius is bad, challenging is good)

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I think that the majority of the world content should be pretty easy. Also, remember that what seems easy to people who know MMO's and a couple WoW classes doesn't seem so with others--I've had friends and family that actually started playing and actually died in world content while leveling. To them it's hard.

World content doesn't need to be the place for the elite. I think it's OK if it's sprinkled in.

Also also, vanilla WoW was not elite or hard. It was actually designed to cater to casuals. It wasn't like the other hardcore MMO's of its time. To keep in that spirit, yes, it should continue to cater to casual players, while pushing the elite players at the cutting edge of endgame content. Like mythics.

(I do wish mythic dungeons were harder, though. It would be nice if ilvl scaled down on a bell curve so you can't outgear it so easily, while keeping ilvl adding some sense of improvement.)

sens of improvement is always good, and I see your friends died hope they had and are having fun.

we are not talking about making the world super elite, but just more challenging, I am no elite hardcore raid player. but at it current level it is so Toxic easy, push forward a very bad Comminity, where no one speaks and no one learn anything, exept grinding and just not caring about others

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Not at all. Sure you can choose your challenge in dungeons and such, but the open world should not just be faceroll like it is now.

this is so true, what is the point of living if you dont feel alive and Challenged

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With Legion Rares at higher levels I found myself dying a few times and adjusting some talents to take them down. I think the scaling helps a bit. Issue with making elites like vanilla elites to group us is waiting to tag factor. Blizzard would end up just making it like it is now tagable by all groups whats the difficulty in that? And if you don't make it tagable by everyone then people whine.

The population of players that want a harder and more challenging lvling experience although rightfully merited would get shut down by the majority of casual players that don't have time to endure any grouping or grinding. Although the "hardcore" are a vocal minority, the casuals are the dominant force in most MMOs now days.

I like the ideas. It could be executable but Blizzard would have to find a middle ground so casuals don't feel like they NEED to group, cause frankly some just don't want to.

Mate, I am a Casual and I want a more challenging world and I would want to group up with people to take on a more harder world zone

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I think it wasn't so much that every thing was hard, but that there was some risk. If you aggroed one too many of some mobs you could die, you sometimes needed to plan how to navigate through places, etc. It generally struck a good balance between being annoyingly hard on one hand and boringly easy.

Balancing Challeng, just what our ears like to hear ^^

PS: I loved the part where you have to take a look at the area around you and then make out a strategy for how to make it.

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I think they can find a happy medium between how it is now, and how it was in Vanilla if they tried. I shouldn't be able to pull 15 mobs at a time like I could since Wotlk

This is what we ask for, and this is what everyone should ask for.

Trust me, there is nothing fun in being "super Powerful while levelling"

[thatmikeguy]

The WORLD it self need to feel more challenging and Harder... let us feel in Danger when we move around in the world!


Let each and every mob have the possability to kill us just like in "Vanilla and BC" if you pulled more then 1, it was almost e certen death... it was so amazing since you really Feard those huge croweded bases you where suppose to go in.


You almost got Forced to find some one to group with, so that you felt more secure going in that huge crowed with mobs. (NOW DAYS YOU JUST RUN IN SOLO AND KILL EVERTHING IN 10 SECONDS)...... WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT.....

it has nothing to do with content or if your game is good... if fighting mobs is a walk in a park... if you are a new player you dont feel challenged and you lost interest...


What do you guys think about his? I would love you hear your Ideas

In Legion the world scales around players, so this is the first step in that direction as far as scaling goes.

[Wolfrick]

I have seen 3 or 4 level 110 rare elites wandering around Val'sharrah on Alpha despite only being level 101 at the time. Seen a couple in Highmountain as well. Some of the rare mobs certainly appear to have level scaling intentionally disabled, which means you have to at least have a cursory look at them before attacking, rather than seeing the star on your minimap and attacking without thinking.

WOW! this is great!!! SO AWESOME NEWS!!!

thanks for the info mate, send you lots of hugs

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No one here has considered my idea as of yet? Oh well.

Awwwwwwww, poor thing, tell us all about it

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The leveling content auto-scaling definitely puts them in a place where they can adjust the average difficulty upward. Hell, as far as I'm concerned they could even add a toggle where all the monsters have 30% more health and hit 30% harder in exchange for 30% more experience, or something like that.

Interesting, very interesting.

Keep up the flow of good ideas! ^^

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Ghostcrawler recently said that back in MoP, when LFR still had some strategy necessary, people would wipe over and over before quitting.

That's really, really sad.

[Krom2040]

Has it ever occurred to you that Blizzard may have had good reasons for the changes they made? They have said many times they lost a lot of players before even reaching level cap. Their response was to make leveling easier. Leveling may be boring (at least for you), but boring AND difficult wouldn't help.

The actual solution is probably elimination of leveling entirely, but that's perhaps too big a step.

I disagree with basically everything you've said so far. First you called people "difficulty fetishists", which is so fucking dumb I don't even know where to start. First of all, I don't see anybody here proposing some brutal slog to level, just that mobs don't flop over dead by merely looking at them. Second, "fetish" implies sexual gratification, which is ridiculously out of place and suggests that you're just trying to be stupidly dismissive of people who disagree with you.

Then you went down the classic "Blizzard is a big company and everything they're doing must have great reasons" path. That, children, is what we call a "logical fallacy".

If you can't make real arguments, then bow out of the thread.

[Wolfrick]

I don't get this obsession with making leveling ridiculously difficult. It's been relegated to the point of little more than storytelling and a timesink. The design of the game now evolves around whatever the max level is, so the sooner one gets there, the better.

This kind of thinking is the thing that hurt the World of Warcraft the most, since 1-100 is 100% of the content of the entire game, so if you just focus on making max level better and just "dont care" mode of the ealyer, then you just focus all you effort on 1% of the game.

we are not saying that they should stop making Max level content, on the contrary, and we are not saying that it should be "Crazy hard" mode, but just more challenging.

Since for new players and to all the players that care for challenge in a game, levelling from 1 to 100 should be fun and Interesting, not as you say, "so the Sooner one gets there ,the better".

and for people like you, they could make a buff or an Experience potion, so that you just have to kill 4 times less mobs and do 4 times less quests, but it will be challenging, in this way, everyone is happy.

you get there fast, and it is challenging for everyone.

[Osmeric]

I disagree with basically everything you've said so far. First you called people "difficulty fetishists", which is so fucking dumb I don't even know where to start.

Well, start with how incredibly dumb it is to think that making the game more difficult would improve its acceptance in the marketplace. If you don't see that, you're part of the problem I was describing with that term.

First of all, I don't see anybody here proposing some brutal slog to level, just that mobs don't flop over dead by merely looking at them. Second, "fetish" implies sexual gratification, which is ridiculously out of place and suggests that you're just trying to be stupidly dismissive of people who disagree with you.

Fetish does not imply sexual gratification. Get your mind out of the gutter.

Then you went down the classic "Blizzard is a big company and everything they're doing must have great reasons" path. That, children, is what we call a "logical fallacy".

I'm just pointing out that Blizzard's actions are inconsistent with the fantasy that you difficulty fetishists wallow in. The usual approach you guys take is to explain away Blizzard's actions as "listening to the whiners", which is hilarious delusion defense in its own right.

If you can't make real arguments, then bow out of the thread.

Sorry, not going to be quiet just because you're uncomfortable with being called on your nonsense.

[Wolfrick]

Why do these discussions invariably degenerate into a debate over extremes? There's obviously a hell of a lot of points on the continuum between "ridiculously difficult" and "a one-armed three-year-old can't fail at this". Leveling should exhibit the same basic game-like qualities as any other game, where playing very poorly occasionally results in a penalty, and where playing well has some tangible advantage (i.e. I ever have to make a corpse run and I kill things a bit faster). When everything dies in three seconds or less, not only is there no chance for failure, but there's no reason to even use your abilities effectively because it won't make you level appreciably faster than somebody who only ever bothered to put their primary damage skill on their action bar. And leveling REALLY IS LIKE THIS right now, at least up until you get to around level 90. You just vaporize everything in your path, and there's no thought involved except "where do I go next". Amazingly, the complete absence of gamey-ness makes the few dozen hours you spend leveling feel that much more grindy.

I will reiterate this point because it feels worth reiterating: any game needs at least the shadow of failure to be lurking around somewhere, and any game also needs to make you feel as though there's some benefit to playing well. That's just a fact of game design. Anything else is a theme park, and has to rely on *extremely* high production values to keep your interest.

The game doesn't need to revert to taking 60 seconds to kill a random monster like it did if you were leveling as a healer in Vanilla, but it could definitely benefit from regular monsters taking an average of 10 or 15 seconds or so to kill, so you at least recognize some benefit to having better gear or using an offensive cooldown or whatever. It also would benefit from there being repercussions to pulling 5+ things at once, like having to at least use a cooldown to survive it.

There is *plenty* of room for the game to increase the challenge in leveling and still not be some kind of punishing trial. It's just about engaging maybe 20% of your awareness rather than 0%.

so true, it need to get Balanced to a challenging level, where at least the Fear of death is lurking, as of now, you never die...

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I don't mind the lack of danger when questing, but I do honestly miss group quests, especially with how easy it is to group up now with the in game tool. A boss mob for a quest that takes 3 players at level would a welcome addition to me.

I agree, I miss them to

was kinda fun to have some Elite mobs that was crazy in a zone.

Do you Remember the "Sons of Arugal" in Silverpine Forest? OMG, those guys freeked me out, they just came out behind a tree, Black Elite Worgen running towards you!!!

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Sigh. it's useless replying to you because you've not read the thread or if you have, you've not understood it. The point isn't to make it super hard... it's to make it have enough risk to be challenging and thus engaging. If you were around early on and leveled in STV you'll remember Kurzen's Compound. You had several quests there and the mobs were plentiful enough and powerful enough that you had to do some planning, wait for a patrol to wander away, etc. That could be fun because you were more involved that when you one shot everything with an eye on Netflix because the world isn't a challenge. Of course, a lot of other stuff in STV was just "go kill 10 of x" and pretty easy. A mix of things can make leveling fun.

of course, if you're one of those "I hate leveling, blah blah blah" then you wouldn't want this. But I'd argue that anyone who really hates a major component of the game is likely in the wrong game and shouldn't be listen to about it.

This is a very good point you make, its like some few people against everyone, want to Destroy the gameplay, just to make the game easyer for them, since they dont have time, to play the game as it should...

I hope Blizzard listens to reason and see about to the Wisdom in an Challenging and constructive envirement

[wowaccounttom]

those glorious days when i would crit for 18 damage while leveling up... good times...

warrior leveling back then was a feat.... and i loved it

[Marhault]

I dunno about the not being able to pull a bunch of mobs, even back in Vanilla. Frost Mages were able to do that with Imp Blizzard. It's just that the tools to deal with that many didn't exist before.

As for the mobs only living for 1 second. That is a different matter, generally speaking everyone is outgearing the content they're walking into right now. Going from Vanilla to leveling in TBC, I had a mix of Naxx, AQ40, BWL gear with the Hand of Rag as a ret paladin. Right clicking on a mob would generally one shot it. I could solo the 3 man group quests, infact the first quests I remember having an issue on was the 5 man quests in Shadowmoon Valley. Infact, I didn't replace many pieces of gear until SMV or max level dungeons.

If you were to go into Tanaan with ilvl 630 gear (Having cleared Heroic Dungeons only), you would have a challenge. Is more/better gear available? Sure, but technically the same case with Vanilla and TBC. When you were undergeared (Or properly geared so the area awarded you with upgrades), the area was a challenge. Walking back into that same area in much better gear made it a lot easier.

However, I do think they should just add back in Fel Reavers. Them ninjas were amusing to watch aggro someone and kill them.

[Wolfrick]

And your reply confirmed why it was useless. You're determined to not like any challenge apparently.

Look, theres a tension between new players and people leveling their 11th alt. There's a challenge in making something like the Kurzen quests involving when you have gameplay issues like respawns involved.

Some of you will never be satisfied until they game's tailored just for you.

yeah! his is sad, some people are not like us, we think about the good for everyone, and want to make everyone happy.

the solution could be, give these outburned players an "experience buff of Potion" that will make them level fast, so that they can get to there "loved" MAX level and not care less for the low levels.

PS: in this comment I just prove my point in caring for everyone.

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Not as a rogue. If I'd have done that, I'd have died. Nice job not mentioning your class. Now, if you were a tank or a pet class? Sure, I can buy that.


Oh, just quit with the 'I'm so fucking good' bullshit. Chances are you aren't and weren't then. I soloed some of the elites, even as a rogue, but you DID have to use tactics and think about, especially when you were fairly fragile and had no real selfhealing like a rogue.

It's not about DIFFICULTY, it's about the possibility that you can fail if you don't use 'the right tactics'. It's about having to consider tactics in the first place vs just 1-2 shooting everything because you're so OP with full 'looms and the crap scaling they have now. It's about trying to make the world feel more like it did then, a place where you were an adventurer who, yes, could pull off most things but who wasn't a god among NPCs.



Jesus fucking christ you people are dense. It's not about COPYING Vanilla, it's about learning from it and making leveling more involving and yes challenging. I'm sorry that it's too hard for you and others here to understand that we can learn lessons and apply them without slavish copying. Of COURSE vanilla had flaws. Every point in the game does. Try this on for size - it might be possible to apply different aspects from different periods in a way that makes the game more fun.

it would be nice to have a discussion without some of you trying to swing your dicks about how good you are and without you trying to paint everything as black or white. But then.... not on this forum.

hey, my friend, yet again these people just care about there selfs, and want you to look bad and they want to shine.

they dont get that its best for us all to make the game good for us all, since that would improve the longevity of our BELOVED World of Warcraft.

btw, for the "It was so easy vanilla part of the topic you Quoted" he has no clue what he is talking about...

love your imputs mate, cheers

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Taking more time to kill something is a little bit annoying, but it's one component of difficulty. If any mob can be obliterated in three seconds, then there's no penalty for pulling a bunch of mobs, because you'll ultimately be able to take them out before there's any real threat.

Things don't have to take forever to kill, but they have to take long enough to not be ignore-able.

YES! give us the possibility to use all of our Abilities or just give us some time to figure out what to use, within a fight, not just spam button "since I will never die and they just die in 3 seconds"

great answer.

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I went to level an alt character the other day, and my auto attacks would literally 1shot monsters and I had no reason to use my abilities. I'm not sure how people think that a good experience or healthy for the game.

AMEN BROTHer! it happen to me as well, I use under level gear and weak weapons to keep it a little challenging.

but it should be way more challenging, alt least leave us a window where we can use our Abilities.

Bravo!

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Leveling is half the games experience, it's a core part of what makes an mmo an mmo. So of course they wouldn't want to make it feel like a chore, as its an integral part of the experience.

But if you make everything trivial and mindless, it starts to feel like a chore.

OMG! you just pro my point again and again!!! this is so true and it said so nicely!

Blizzard being afraid of that the game can maybe become a little to hard, they made it so easy that almost the entire levelling experience is booring... even if you love the lore, there is not challenging in doing the quests

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Gotta stop you right there. Private servers are becoming increasingly popular and even more alive than live ones during prime time. The reason the only thing that is holding them back is 1. they are technically illegal 2.poor advertisement. But the style of difficulty and gameplay are not bad, just different. I agree that not everyone will go for it, but to day it is a death sentence is the opposite. By going completely convenience for the customer base who wasn't to go in, get their 1 month of fun and then get out has been WoW's death. by extending that time of accomplishments extends the time of gameplay. Players will go for those accomplishments regardless of how long it takes.

yeah! everything you do to reach a goal make that very goal fell more important if it takes for time and more challenge (just like in life, thinks that took time to achive and actualy you had to put some effort to do, made you fell better when you reaced that goal)

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All I want is to just have mobs hit harder and have sufficient health so that they don't get nuked in ~6seconds unless you pop your major CDs. Nuking waves of mobs until you reach Level 110 isn't any fun. From what I've seen on alpha levelling videos, levelling mobs still hit like wet noodles and they barely have any effect on your health pool. I know that this kind of content is available to every player so I know that it shouldn't be too difficult, but I really think that the devs are seriously underestimating their player-base, even the super casual players. And then people wonder why a lot of players reach max-level and don't know what they're doing.. treating players like babies while levelling won't help them learn their class or the game.

Treating Players like mindless Zombies... will even stop the most Lore loving player from levelling a new char... as it is now it booring!

MAKE IT FUN AGAIN, give us some challeng from 1 to 100.

what I am scared of is that this bad and booring early game, will make all the new players stop befour they reach level 40.

and to keep a game healthy its important to have new players

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People don't want to die over and over when questing. Then people will quit and there is no reason to let people quit before they even reach max level.

No, they will stay and learn and have fun, or even group up with friends to get it done.

this is what an MMORPG is all about, having fun getting a challeng and in the procces you make new friends.

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I disagree. Almost 10 years ago, my father had some downtime and I showed him the game. He was extremely casual — like, staccato-tap keyboard turner — and only quested.

Cataclysm arrived, world challenged dropped. He logged on, played for a bit, then gave the game up for good because he "just walked around, killing everything in sight first try."

I remember Morhaime or another higher-up citing numbers that showed new players left the game before level 10, concluding that difficulty turned them away. They could not have been more incorrect.

Yes, this is what will happen, people will feel engaged and want to get better, not just getting handed everything they want.

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I know its crazy, but there's a middle ground between 1shotting mobs with auto attacks and not having to use your abilities and dying over and over and over.

People already quit before they reach max level because the leveling experience is horrible right now. You can't appreciate the combat because all the mobs are trivial you can't appreciate dungeons because tanks can solo them, if you don't enjoy reading quest text its honestly one of the worst leveling experience in mmo's out there right now.

Yeah mate, this is my biggest fear, since now the WARCRAFT MOVIE is coming out, that will breath aloot of new life to World of Warcraft, and with this LEVELING system.... from level 1.... many of the new players will leave befour they reach level 40/50, only because as it is now its booring

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Sure it is, not just in a vacuum mind you... but I promise you having everything die in 1 hit and never having to fear death or use your abilities doesn't exactly entice people to stick around.

You need to be able to fail, otherwise the game does.

yeah, its from Failing that we learn, so winning all the time, gets booring.

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Level a brand new char from scratch without heirlooms, I promise you its still trivial and you will never be concerned that your character might die. Not to mention that almost everyone you group with will have heirlooms which will further trivialize the experience. And leveling in a new xpac does not require mythic gear for you to be one shotting things, the shit starts out tuned to be easy for boosted characters in beginning of xpac gear... if your gear is anything past a freshly level'd up 100 (or 90 in the case of wod) you'll be one shotting everything for quite a while.

I agree that making it feel *too* grindy will, hence why there are middle grounds.

A concept you continue to seem to not understand.

This is why they should remove the Stats on the heirlooms, since it destroys the questing experience for everyone, if you ask me, keep the Experience boost, so the few guys that wanna level super fast, get it done and gets out of our way.

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yes maybe thay would leave - but if the game got harder maybe we would have other players come bac

but tbh i think the players that play now wont stop no matter what thay do

This is so true, we who are left are the fanatics and the Warcraft Lovers, I would never leave.

I think this move will push out the Toxic game play and make it a Constructive and Challenging gameplay that would boost the entire player base, trust me I would have over 6 or 8 friends coming back if it got harder.

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I honestly can't imagine how some of you guys can say "I've leveled before, I don't want to have to think while leveling!" and not be fucking embarrassed for yourselves. It's a video game, suck it up and stop whining and play the game! Leveling zones in WoW, especially the early ones, have a LONG way to go before it could possibly be considered annoyingly difficult.

I'm nearly as embarrassed for anybody who can say with a straight face that the reason Wildstar Online failed is that the leveling was too hard. There were a ton of reasons why it didn't pan out, like the fact that the UI was janky and that everything felt aimless and the telegraph system was woefully overused. The leveling, as compared to WoW, was definitely more engaging in spite of the rest of its flaws, and claiming that you can point out one particular factor as THE REASON is just idiotic.

It's just insane to me that people think that WoW should just be this slot machine where you sit there and mindlessly mash your buttons for however long until you get a reward.

Yes my friend! this is what also angers me, levelling from 1 to 100 the Reward is in the levelling it self.

you know who thinks (If I dont get a reward, I wont do it)??? SPOILED KIDS, I enjoy World of Warcraft not for it rewards but for the game it self, I love to just sit around and talk to people or spend an evening in thunder bluff enjoying the view.

We as a community have to gather up and raise our voices, WOW, has to become challenging from 1 to 100, it for its longevity and for the best of us all.

Cheers for your imput and I hope you will calm down (/pet)

sends you love

[Viradiance]

It seems bizarre that WoW may be one of the only games in the world without an actual RPG difficulty curve of "The game gets harder the higher your level is". The world remains piss-easy and trivial from 10-100, and the only actual difficulty comes in optional content.

I'd honestly wonder how much better the raiding and PVP communities would be if people had to eventually learn their class at some point along the leveling spectrum.

Well, actually, I did wonder that until I played FFXIV where the playerbase is somehow leaps and bounds worse at the game than the WoW playerbase. Turns out people are just shitty everywhere.

[effs]

Would be better to propose what could make it more challenging instead of saying "make it more challenging". Higher ilvl gear will eventually make things challenging post level cap. From 1-100 however, it's mindlessly boring. Soon after WoD's release I remember see that they nerved the HP of mobs by about 50% and their damage by some %? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong) And it was pretty difficult staying alive as tanks. I'm not saying revert the change, but partly reverting it might help a little.

[Wolfrick]

I felt Mists of Pandaria had some appropirately dangerous mobs for the content-both in the daily areas and while leveling.

You don't have to give enemies super hard Autos or tons of health-you just need to give them abilites that, if you ignore them, will leave you feeling like you took a good shot in the chest. Nothing major, but to not be toothless.

This means picking off enemies one by one will still be okay but if you get cocky and pull packs you better pull on your big boy pants and your dancing shoes.

its all about balancing, and making the Mobs live a little longer, but I like your imput, you should feel afraid when you are out in the world.

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Totally agree.

But now mobs don't have enough HP, it's not okay that a player without heirloom can pretty much one-shot every mob.

sadly this is true, you dont even use your Abilities...

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Would love that balance between difficulty and progression.

Ideally it would take a casual player 3 months to become strong enough to reach cap.

Nice progression, nice rewards along the way. Would hold onto subs far far longer than 1 month and then unsub like it currently is.

I agree, thinks should take time

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I generally like to be wined and dined first. I'm not that type of gal.

hahaha, you got me :P

How about Saturday? for some nice Wine and some dinner!

[effs]

Would love that balance between difficulty and progression.

Ideally it would take a casual player 3 months to become strong enough to reach cap.

Nice progression, nice rewards along the way. Would hold onto subs far far longer than 1 month and then unsub like it currently is.

Although I see where you're coming from, if you were a new player, how would you feel if it's going to take 3 months to get through 100 levels, even more so to 110? Especially how the first 90 or so levels are completely different to end game.

[Wolfrick]

Which i loved playing and really enjoyed. Wildstar, in my opinion, suffered more from a bad engine. If the game runs like shit, who can play it? The only thing that kept me from playing in the first place was that i ran like arse. Sadly, because i had a lot of fun.

Anyway, if the world offers no challenge at all i get bored as hell and lose any interest. I for one, think that the way is as much important as the goal. I tried leveling new characters in WoW. I can´t, i get bored out of my mind.

we are in the same boat, wow is way to easy on the levelling part, Game should and must be challenging or what would the point be in playing.

btw: I feel you completely, in Vanilla, I cound`t reach max level with one single Char, since I really enjoyed levelling, I just started a new char just to level and have fun.

PS: World of Warcraft is and MMORPG, base line, an Adventure, and Traveling is half the adventure, so the way is as much as important as the goal.

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Yes...This game needs to be harder, anyone who tells me different is a idiot. Your pulse should go up when playing a game, cause of excitement and cause of the difficulty and the fun in it. Shouldn't feel like ur half asleep when doing stuff....And what a hell the hell is wrong with a skillcap in a game?? People don't have time ? People are too lazy? Don't people wanna feel like there should be a learning curve to stuff?? Instead of just getting "good" very quickly, and then all of a sudden there is nothing to do?

Even if you don't have time to play 15 hours a day...still learn to have patience and to have some faith in yourself. And trust me...once you get good at something difficult, it's gonna be very rewarding.

WELL SAID! raise your voice buddy, I am with you all the way!!!

Cheers

[MasterHamster]

Sadly there's very little push from the community to make leveling harder (hint: actual part of the game) again because in their minds, that means nothing but more time spent being bored, not understanding that a very large factor in why WoWs current leveling is a boring comatose joke is because it's so easy.

We want leveling to remain piss easy so it's over with quickly, but the reason we want it over with quickly is because it's piss easy.


And why not? When you can't die before level 90 why wouldn't you want that over with as fast as possible. And since every single thing can be soloed in seconds I never have an incentive to be social either. Remember the times when you made friends while leveling because you grouped up for mutual benefit? Not like today when you MIGHT get an actual response if you ask a question in a dungeon the tank is soloing anyway.

What a joke.

[purebalance]

If they make it anything above trivial, people will leave. The majority of players is still in the casual camp and many seemingly don't want any challenge. Ghostcrawler recently said that back in MoP, when LFR still had some strategy necessary, people would wipe over and over before quitting. Blizzard doesn't want to lose that part of their player-base and they know hardcore players won't leave either.

Then they need to quit. Like I keep saying Blizzard needs to get the dollar signs out of their eyes and stop letting bad players corrupt the game to feel good about themselves or whatever it does. If they want to see things they can watch on youtube or twitch.

[corebit]

One of the main reasons Blizzard is hesitant to make leveling harder is because not everyone levels with a DPS spec. Some people here wax nostalgic about the vanilla experience but I bet they never used a healer or tank spec to level up (yes I know tank specs are now very capable for soloing but they weren't then). When you think about leveling you have to take all of the game's 34 specs (36 in Legion) into consideration.

And you can't say: "well tough shit, switch to a DPS spec then." Legion is going to make it even harder to switch specs because you'll pick your artifact very early on, and it's gonna take a while before you can finish leveling your artifact. If you made leveling harder, it would be unfair to tanks and healers who are leveling with their respective artifacts just because they want to be ready for dungeons/raids at max level.