Lahore, Pakistan hit by a terrorist blast

[Hif]

Yes and almost ALL of the rest of them apart from Libya imprison people for Apostasy/Blasphemy. Libya, enlightened as it is, only fines people for their apostasy and blasphemy.




I argue against you, therefore I must be blinded by my supposed faith, despite not practicing any religion, good call.

And once again, you put forward your absurd notion of equivalency... A literal handful of preachers who use bigoted language, but don't actually act out any violence ever, and are usually disavowed by their religious authorities... And singular isolated incidents of violence committed by deranged individuals... Those two things are apparently equivalent to REGULAR MASS KILLINGS and STATE SPONSORED EXECUTIONS.

Literally everything you say is bullshit.

Again not all of them. Chad, Niger, Nigeria are examples that don't. But then again Germany imprisons you for blasphemy as well.

Dude stop making assumption. You could be a Taoist for all I care. And two presidential candidates who equate every Muslim to a terrorist is by no means a small isolated incident. The fact that they are the front runners and have over 70% of the Republican vote indicates something about US society.

If Pakistan had 70% of religious clergy getting the vote I would be extremely worried.

Secondly mass killings are terrorism, which a majority of Muslims hate. Also note that Muslims died in the lahore blast too.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim supports terrorism?

[I Push Buttons]

Again not all of them. Chad, Niger, Nigeria are examples that don't. But then again Germany imprisons you for blasphemy as well.

Dude stop making assumption. You could be a Taoist for all I care. And two presidential candidates who equate every Muslim to a terrorist is by no means a small isolated incident. The fact that they are the front runners and have over 70% of the Republican vote indicates something about US society.

If Pakistan had 70% of religious clergy getting the vote I would be extremely worried.

Secondly mass killings are terrorism, which a majority of Muslims hate. Also note that Muslims died in the lahore blast too.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim supports terrorism?

That targets other Muslims? No, I don't believe many support it, I believe the vast majority are opposed to it.

That targets Americans? I believe a good portion support it (not a large portion, but enough that it is significant)... I believe an even larger portion are indifferent too it. With a small minority who are actually vocally opposed to it.

I don't really blame those who are indifferent though... Can't very well go around the Middle East defending Americans... Don't want to get yourself beaten to death by a mob...

[Deleted]

Nope 8 do. There 54 Muslim countries in the world.

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No what i am saying is a US Pastor saying Muslims should be killed, people shooting up a Sikh Temple thinking it was a mosque, people burning down mosques, armed men standing outside of mosques and pointing guns at kids is equivalent to how Christians, Hindus, druze, etc feel in the Muslim world.

But I forget you. You don't know any better. Plus its the christian thing to do.

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I would love you to back up that claim since a majority of Pakistanis are, Hanafi, Deobandi and Barelvi.

Deobandi and Berelvi aren't seperate schools of jurisprudence. They fall under Hanafi traditions.

Deobandism in particular dates back to 1867 and was primarily a response to British colonialism in the former Mughal Empire. In many ways, deobandism is a secular ideology seeing as how it was originally used as a platform for building a composite nationalism between Indian Muslims and Hindus to oppose the British.

[Hif]

That targets other Muslims? No, I don't believe many support it, I believe the vast majority are opposed to it.

That targets Americans? I believe a good portion support it (not a large portion, but enough that it is significant)... I believe an even larger portion are indifferent too it. With a small minority who are actually vocally opposed to it.

I don't really blame those who are indifferent though... Can't very well go around the Middle East defending Americans... Don't want to get yourself beaten to death by a mob...

Of course you can. I have sat in Dubai and Cairo at coffee shops discussing regional and international politics with Muslims and non-Muslims alike. None of us died or got attacked.

Most Muslims don't want anybody dead. Just like any normal Human being. Nobody wants anybody to die in a horrible explosion no matter what the politics are.

[I Push Buttons]

Of course you can. I have sat in Dubai and Cairo at coffee shops discussing regional and international politics with Muslims and non-Muslims alike. None of us died or got attacked.

Most Muslims don't want anybody dead. Just like any normal Human being. Nobody wants anybody to die in a horrible explosion no matter what the politics are.

Seems like "most" (aka, a majority) only think its unjustifiable after they themselves get targeted. The above image is just Jordan, but it is pretty typical of every nation Pew conducted their research in.

People overwhelmingly believed attacks were often/sometimes justifiable right up until they themselves became the victim. In the aftermath of 9/11 and again in the aftermath of the 2003 US Invasion of Iraq, "most" were perfectly ok with terrorists killing Americans.

I assume the sentiment towards us remains, we have done nothing to alleviate their hatred of us in the years since then. The only thing that has changed is their opinion of attacks in general because, big shocker, they themselves don't want to get attacked.

[Deletedaccount1]

Of course you can. I have sat in Dubai and Cairo at coffee shops discussing regional and international politics with Muslims and non-Muslims alike. None of us died or got attacked.

Yes your anecdotal evidence from two of some of the most progressive cities in the Muslim world are indicative of how most Muslims view terrorism.

The fact is that numerous Pew Research polls have shown that a sizable minority of Muslims support radical terrorist action and that the majority are completely indifferent to it.

[ttak82]

Hurts to learn about terrorist attacks anywhere; these things are very common in Pakistan now.

If Pakistan had 70% of religious clergy getting the vote I would be extremely worried.

That has been happening ever since the country's name changed to The Islamic republic of Pakistan in 1956. And things have been downhill since. Most of the politicians support religious clergy and even if there are some who don't, the clergy has a lot of influence now. They enjoy political support. They have lots of funding through political parties, financial groups and even their own businesses. They are allowed to spew their bullshit every day on mass media and in general public. It does not matter if there are a few liberals in the ruling parties. Most wont act upon seeing these bearded assholes shitting all over everyone else's daily lives.

The country is like a dystopia. News is not even worth watching because it looks like a shitshow - a fake ass shitshow. Terrorists attacks like the Lahore incident will continue to happen here unfortunately, because there are people in the government and military who are both incompetent and complicit in such things. And let's not talk about the spineless general public here.

I could go on and on. But this is MMO-Champ and not ATS. /endrant

[Deleted]

Hurts to learn about terrorist attacks anywhere; these things are very common in Pakistan now.



That has been happening ever since the country's name changed to The Islamic republic of Pakistan in 1956. And things have been downhill since. Most of the politicians support religious clergy and even if there are some who don't, the clergy has a lot of influence now. They enjoy political support. They have lots of funding through political parties, financial groups and even their own businesses. They are allowed to spew their bullshit every day on mass media and in general public. It does not matter if there are a few liberals in the ruling parties. Most wont act upon seeing these bearded assholes shitting all over everyone else's daily lives.

The country is like a dystopia. News is not even worth watching because it looks like a shitshow - a fake ass shitshow. Terrorists attacks like the Lahore incident will continue to happen here unfortunately, because there are people in the government and military who are both incompetent and complicit in such things. And let's not talk about the spineless general public here.

I could go on and on. But this is MMO-Champ and not ATS. /endrant

If you honestly fucking think that Pakistan's problems is down to the clerics, of all people, I can only say that you're an idiot and you've probably never spend a single hour inside that nation to actually find out who actually ARE the one's shitting on the average Pakistani.

I lived there for ten fucking years.

I can only hope that Nawaz Sharif and the rest of his fucking cuntish scumbag syncophants try to assault the clerics gathered in Islamabad. The second he does that, his entire worthless, fucking corrupt regime will be torn to bloody shreds. And him along with it.

And incidentally, I hope the same happens to those bastards, Islam Karimov and Nursultan Nazarbayev over in the North.

/endrant

[Hif]

Yes your anecdotal evidence from two of some of the most progressive cities in the Muslim world are indicative of how most Muslims view terrorism.

The fact is that numerous Pew Research polls have shown that a sizable minority of Muslims support radical terrorist action and that the majority are completely indifferent to it.

On a scale of 1 to 10 how stupid are you? Cairo is not a progressive Muslim city. Never has been. You try walking through Garden City or Zamalek holding a girls hand.

You want progessive muslim cities, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Istanbul, Tunis. Those are examples of progressive Muslim cities. Not Cairo and Dubai.

You can get arrested in Dubai for kissing your wife. I mean seriously. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/8602449.stm

Progressive my ass.

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Seems like "most" (aka, a majority) only think its unjustifiable after they themselves get targeted. The above image is just Jordan, but it is pretty typical of every nation Pew conducted their research in.

People overwhelmingly believed attacks were often/sometimes justifiable right up until they themselves became the victim. In the aftermath of 9/11 and again in the aftermath of the 2003 US Invasion of Iraq, "most" were perfectly ok with terrorists killing Americans.

I assume the sentiment towards us remains, we have done nothing to alleviate their hatred of us in the years since then. The only thing that has changed is their opinion of attacks in general because, big shocker, they themselves don't want to get attacked.

I dislike that graph as it is skewed. Can you break down the percentages of the 57% who think it is often justified and its sometimes justified because it is not one and the same.

After all its like saying "Do you think its often justified, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified to target Muslims with detention, torture and/or threats of violence, if you suspect they are terrorist?".

The figures of that would be skewed by the graph as well.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/...-extremism-10/

And from 2006: http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/05/23/...-muslim-world/

Note how many say its never acceptable.

[Omgodzilla]

The majority of Pakistan is sympathetic to Al Qaeda, according to various reputable polls. I wonder how they feel when the attacks occur in their own territory.

Would be nice if you could at least link some of these reputable polls.

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The attack was focused on Christians, who are oppressed in Pakistan, so my guess is that the average pakistanian citizen would condone this bombing.

I'm a Canadian (born in Pakistan) and I often like to criticize Pakistan on many fronts. Such as the fact that its a non-secular nation, the huge levels of crime, corruption, and terrorism. But I would never go as far as to say that the AVERAGE Pakistan, meaning that the MAJORITY of Pakistanis, support these things. I have a large number of relatives and contacts still living in Pakistan. Not one of them have expressed any support for this bombing. Not one of them have expressed hate towards Christians. Does every Pakistani I know, somehow fall outside the realm of being classified as "an average Pakistani"? Cause that would be one hell of a coincidence.

Does Pakistan have alot of shitty people in it? Absolutely. Then again, take into consideration that you're talking about a country with over 180 million people in it. If even a tiny fraction of them are assholes, then that's alot of assholes. But that is not the same thing as saying that MOST of them are assholes. What you're saying here just isn't logical at all. The average Pakistani does not condone this attack. The average Pakistani does not despise Christians. The average Pakistani is living in a shitty situation and just wants to survive. The average Pakistani does not have much power over their lives. The average Pakistani is living under the tyranny of gangs or terrorist warlods, but mostly, they're living under an incompetent and corrupt government that doesn't give a shit about them. Blame the asshole that are actually responsible for this mess.

All these people in this thread, talking as if they're experts on Pakistan. How many of you have actually been to Pakistan? How many of you have actually spoken to Pakistani people about their lives, views and opinions? Its easy to criticize people living in a third world country after reading a flashy headline. Its another thing entirely to actually put yourself in their shoes and face the challenges that they face. I've actually done the latter (to an extent). I can tell you with experience that the average Pakistani isn't what many people in this thread think.

[xenogear3]

The city is 98% Muslim.

When they throw a bomb in the middle of "Christians", don't they worry it might hit one of his "brothers"?

By the way, Muslim is a very united religion.
They don't think suicide attackers are wrong.

[Deletedaccount1]

On a scale of 1 to 10 how stupid are you? Cairo is not a progressive Muslim city. Never has been. You try walking through Garden City or Zamalek holding a girls hand.

You want progessive muslim cities, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Istanbul, Tunis. Those are examples of progressive Muslim cities. Not Cairo and Dubai.

You can get arrested in Dubai for kissing your wife. I mean seriously. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/8602449.stm

Progressive my ass.

Comparatively progressive to the rest of the Middle East.

Tunis and KL are hardly progressive. In Malaysia, the most minor of crimes is given the death penalty. Still, I didn't hate living there.

Your evidence is still anecdotal at best and doesn't reflect the actual policies of the Muslim world as a whole and its lack of condemnation for terrorism.

[Waynhim]

Would be nice if you could at least link some of these reputable polls.

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I'm a Canadian (born in Pakistan) and I often like to criticize Pakistan on many fronts. Such as the fact that its a non-secular nation, the huge levels of crime, corruption, and terrorism. But I would never go as far as to say that the AVERAGE Pakistan, meaning that the MAJORITY of Pakistanis, support these things. I have a large number of relatives and contacts still living in Pakistan. Not one of them have expressed any support for this bombing. Not one of them have expressed hate towards Christians. Does every Pakistani I know, somehow fall outside the realm of being classified as "an average Pakistani"? Cause that would be one hell of a coincidence.

Does Pakistan have alot of shitty people in it? Absolutely. Then again, take into consideration that you're talking about a country with over 180 million people in it. If even a tiny fraction of them are assholes, then that's alot of assholes. But that is not the same thing as saying that MOST of them are assholes. What you're saying here just isn't logical at all. The average Pakistani does not condone this attack. The average Pakistani does not despise Christians. The average Pakistani is living in a shitty situation and just wants to survive. The average Pakistani does not have much power over their lives. The average Pakistani is living under the tyranny of gangs or terrorist warlods, but mostly, they're living under an incompetent and corrupt government that doesn't give a shit about them. Blame the asshole that are actually responsible for this mess.

All these people in this thread, talking as if they're experts on Pakistan. How many of you have actually been to Pakistan? How many of you have actually spoken to Pakistani people about their lives, views and opinions? Its easy to criticize people living in a third world country after reading a flashy headline. Its another thing entirely to actually put yourself in their shoes and face the challenges that they face. I've actually done the latter (to an extent). I can tell you with experience that the average Pakistani isn't what many people in this thread think.

Sorry for generalizing.

As you say, I don't know many pakistanians, (they mainly live in the capital in my country), BUT there's been a pretty big issue with their Imams in my country, rallying for the security guard that got executed for killing the progressive governor. This seems to be related to the bombings. These pakistanian representatives of my countries muslims may have coloured my impression.

[TirielWoW]

Again not all of them. Chad, Niger, Nigeria are examples that don't. But then again Germany imprisons you for blasphemy as well.

Dude stop making assumption. You could be a Taoist for all I care. And two presidential candidates who equate every Muslim to a terrorist is by no means a small isolated incident. The fact that they are the front runners and have over 70% of the Republican vote indicates something about US society.

If Pakistan had 70% of religious clergy getting the vote I would be extremely worried.

Secondly mass killings are terrorism, which a majority of Muslims hate. Also note that Muslims died in the lahore blast too.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim supports terrorism?

When was the last time Germany imprisoned anyone for blasphemy?

Nigeria, by the by, has two court systems. It is true that the secular system only imprisons you, but the sharia system in Nigeria has equal power to the secular system in those states that have a Muslim majority, and the penalty for blasphemy includes execution.

[Theodarzna]

Welcome to the Middle East. Enjoy your stay.

That is actually in India, well, the partitioned bit of India that is a Quasi-country.... kinda, but yeah, basically India.

[Macaquerie]

That is actually in India, well, the partitioned bit of India that is a Quasi-country.... kinda, but yeah, basically India.

And people still wonder why Muslims hate the West....

[TirielWoW]

And people still wonder why Muslims hate the West....

We don't wonder that.

We wonder why they feel that their hatred gives them the right and duty to murder people who don't even live where they do for the sole crime of worshiping a different god.

[Theodarzna]

And people still wonder why Muslims hate the West....

I don't entertain the notion that the country called Pakistan is much of a country, Between what they did in Bangladesh to what they do in Balochistan, yeah, my respect for that rebellious province of India is somewhere below zero.

[ttak82]

If you honestly fucking think that Pakistan's problems is down to the clerics, of all people, I can only say that you're an idiot and you've probably never spend a single hour inside that nation to actually find out who actually ARE the one's shitting on the average Pakistani.

I lived there for ten fucking years.

I can only hope that Nawaz Sharif and the rest of his fucking cuntish scumbag syncophants try to assault the clerics gathered in Islamabad. The second he does that, his entire worthless, fucking corrupt regime will be torn to bloody shreds. And him along with it.

And incidentally, I hope the same happens to those bastards, Islam Karimov and Nursultan Nazarbayev over in the North.

/endrant

Lol, only "10 fucking years"? Just read my post and try to understand it. I said that the clergy is supported by the politicians. Voting for politicians that do allow them to have some influence on civil / legal issues is really the same thing. I already live here. I know the current conditions. I don't know where you are but it seems you do not know much about the way politics works here.

And do you think that Nawaz Sharif is actually not supporting the protesters in Islamabad? They dont have to be from PML(N), (Nawaz's party, for those who don't know), but they are exactly just as pathological. And PML(N)? These guys fund them; some of these clerics also stand for elections. And they are allowed to disrupt daily lives for their shit fest. Nawaz is cool with all of that. So is the military. Instead of shoving them out for disorderly conduct, disruptng life in the city, while they pretend to combat an airborne helicopter by trying to hit it with slippers, curse other people with profanities - the roads are blocked, and authorities shut down telecoms services there to protect them. So Nawaz and his goons wont touch them.

This is their motto: Screw the common person who is trying to earn their bread honestly. Facilitate clerics and their rabid fanatics to openly brainwash others while the politicians and their rich friends make more money. Less educated masses hooked to clerics and feudals, while elites can educate their generations and bail out of the country any time things go bad for them.

Yes, Nawaz Sharif and many others are corrupt. I certainly did not mean to say that the non clerical politicians are clean. But to imply that the mostly corrupt clergy in Pakistan has less power by "not getting 70% votes" (like votes even matter) at the moment, and that the situation is any less worrisome exposes your ignorance.

The clergy has been profoundly influential in Pakistan, and that is a long history worthy of a separate thread.

[Ravenblade]

[...]But then again Germany imprisons you for blasphemy as well.[...]

In theory. In reality the vast majority of the few cases are turned down by courts. The few which make it actually through usually end up given a favourable sentence by usually referring to freedom of speech, press, expression and/or arts. Those who don't are a few in-between with the harshest sentence in the last 10 years being probation. That's like how many? Yes, this paragraph is outdated but it hardly has any judicial relevance in Germany today.