Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deficineiron]

People consider the term very loosely. Pay to Progress is severely confused with Pay to Win, and honestly both have their own moral differences. Neither is good, but the pay to progress combats gold sellers through tokens.

the goalposts on pay to win have been moved out of the stadium into the parking lot to make sure instant max level toons, gold, etc., don't get covered by them. at this point, if it isn't mythic-level gear (and a full set), it won't meet the current definition. If they ever did sell that, the definition would move again.

don't believe it? go back to the instant80 SOR threads some years back.

[Tart]

When you can buy max level or buy gold which in turn you use for gear, you are essentially giving money for advantages over other players.

Feel free to let me know which part of this statement you disagree with.

I can picture him looking down and twisting his hat as i type.

[Jokerfiend]

Yeah, you might. I might even sub temporarily to check it out and re-experience things that you can't since Cata. But that wouldn't last long.

Glad you can talk for me. And other people in my shoes.

[Jazalak]

I don't have to know, because I don't really care. But *if* legacy servers were profitable and *if* there was actually a market for them, Blizzard would have already released them. But there isn't. They don't spend time fixing old stuff because there's no money in it. And that's good. I want them to do new stuff.

That "6 billion dollar company" thing is so old. Please stop it, because it has nothing to do with how economy or companies operate.

You don't want to know and you don't really care. Why are you here again? You're wanting to ignore and bury your head in the sand.

[Deleted]

Protecting you property is suddently "giving shit" to people who steal it? C'mon now. I'm sure you'd be fuming if someone stole your stuff and gave it to "several thousand people" without your permission.

They used Blizzard's intellectual property without licencing it or having permission to use it. It's pretty simple case. Arguing silly details for 200 pages doesn't make it any different.

If I had the subscribers and money Blizzard has, I wouldn't give a shit about a few thousand people playing a very old and outdated version of a game which I refuse to support for "reasons". Also, It's not stolen, nothing has gone missing (unless you count Blizzard removing all the old content from the game).

No one should give a shit about private servers, especially Blizzard if they aren't willing to support old versions of the game. It isn't hurting anyone.

[RickJamesLich]

Traditionally P2W is where you buy an advantage over another player that they don't have access to. Technically, you are gaining a time advantage which I suppose in a vacuum it's P2W. Depends on your outlook, but it's another dimension of reality if you consider the two equal.

I guess for this one it all boils down to the words used but giving real life money for advantages over other players IMO is just something that shouldn't be condoned in the game.

[zorkuus]

When you can buy max level or buy gold which in turn you use for gear, you are essentially giving money for advantages over other players.

Feel free to let me know which part of this statement you disagree with.

Everything, because it doesn't require a great deal of effort to get them the old fashioned way. You don't have an advantage. This isn't like Archeage or something where the grind to good gear is so massive it's almost impossible for the average player to catch up to people who use a credit card.

[Florena]

The biggest error blizzard ever done was make expansions and not stand alone games. I know vanilla Warcraft would be populated a long with BC and WOTLK, the rest would naturally be abanonded with single servers.

Wonder how many wrath babies would change there tune once they get a sip of the real Warcraft.

Not as many as you think. I played from vanilla through wod and Wrath was more enjoyable.

[Hoofnmouth]

To make this a non issue Blizzard should offer if they get x number of people to pay up front for x years of subs then and only then would they do the Vanilla servers. This would be a totally separate sub from what live is now and end the debate once and for all.

[Nosdrone]

The difference is you can and often do get banned. On the flip side, blizzard themselves are involved with the gold selling process and encourage it.

Don't try and move the goalposts.

You said no buying gold or P2W. I can go to http://nostalrius.net/ buy gold and win.

[PenguinChan]

the goalposts on pay to win have been moved out of the stadium into the parking lot to make sure instant max level toons, gold, etc., don't get covered by them. at this point, if it isn't mythic-level gear (and a full set), it won't meet the current definition. If they ever did sell that, the definition would move again.

don't believe it? go back to the instant80 SOR threads some years back.

Maybe for other individuals, but not me. I still don't agree with these tactics, as actually making the game more enjoyable and playable without reaching out for cheaper solutions. It feels wrong that you can pay for instant levels, or progression. But it's not really P2W, unless in some vacuum your only concern is world PvP or something.

[Boxilot]

This is so much bullshit. There is absolutely squat to do on live server, Nostalrius was basically the only thing still keeping me interested in the franchise. GG blizz.

The only reason they went after this one, and after so much time, is because it actually became really popular and people flocked to it. There are so many more out there they haven't given two tosses about.

[Deficineiron]

I guess for this one it all boils down to the words used but giving real life money for advantages over other players IMO is just something that shouldn't be condoned in the game.

AKA the Pardo Rule.

[Frozenbeef]

Good, vanilla sucks.

[mindw0rk]

Had more then 60 days /played over last year. I'll miss you, Nost

[RickJamesLich]

Don't try and move the goalposts.

You said no buying gold or P2W. I can go to http://nostalrius.net/ buy gold and win.

No goal posts are being moved, blizzard encourages and is actively involved with selling gold, on Nostalrius that violates the terms of service and you can get banned. No reason to pretend that the two are the same here.

[RobertMugabe]

The biggest error blizzard ever done was make expansions and not stand alone games. I know vanilla Warcraft would be populated a long with BC and WOTLK, the rest would naturally be abanonded with single servers.

Wonder how many wrath babies would change there tune once they get a sip of the real Warcraft.

This.
/10chars

[Normie]

Why is it a no? Blizzard had two main supporting arguments against a legacy realm: The players didn't want it and it was just not possible to do at a development standpoint. Both of those arguments have been proven false, so why is it still a no if so many people want it? Look here if you want to see some numbers after 1 year of Nostalrius being active: http://i.imgur.com/jxtOQlu.jpg

Give me a reason why it's a good idea to continue saying no.

Are you serious?

* There is no data regarding how many people would WANT to pay $15/month in order to play a 10 year old game
* There is no (public) data regarding how much development effort it would require to recreate a 10 year old game such that it is free of bugs and exploits, and runs on modern hardware
* People will never be satisfied with the 10 year old game because some people prefer for 2/3 of specs to be broken/useless and some people don't; some people want all the dumb shit that was fixed in later releases and some people don't, et cetera

All that "private servers" prove is that people will play a shitty game as long as it's free

[RickJamesLich]

Everything, because it doesn't require a great deal of effort to get them the old fashioned way. You don't have an advantage. This isn't like Archeage or something where the grind to good gear is so massive it's almost impossible for the average player to catch up to people who use a credit card.

Instantly getting to level 100 is clearly an advantage over having to level a toon to 100 through the standard means. You can go ahead and be dishonest with yourself by saying "that's not a big thing" lol, but you are not fooling anyone in the process. Ditto with the wow tokens for gold thing. The difficulty doesn't matter in this type of thing, you are still allowing people to get advantages over other players through financial transactions.

[Froggy]

To make this a non issue Blizzard should offer if they get x number of people to pay up front for x years of subs then and only then would they do the Vanilla servers. This would be a totally separate sub from what live is now and end the debate once and for all.

My wallet is open and waiting.