People against socialized medicine but fast to spread Gofundme links for sick friends

[Acidbaron]

You think government programs cannot be corrupted? Really?

Which is why you target the corruption and don't throw away the baby with the bathwater. You don't get rid of entire police forces because corruption is found in said force.

Kind of strange that people can't make that connection.

[Release]

Not sure how hard it is to understand the difference between socialized medicine and asking friends and family to help out.

On the one hand the GoFundMe guy is just asking friends and family if they would like to help out. If they can great if not then no harm no foul.

Socialized medicine just takes from everyone regardless if they would like to help or not.

Lets be honest here for a second. Ask yourself if you care about people outside of your social circle (friends and family) as much as you do for somebody you have never met and probably never will. I am willing to guess that most people would say that they do not. The degree of difference will vary from caring not at all for a stranger to caring almost as much, but there is still a difference. Conservatives just are willing to openly admit that there is such a difference.

I completely disagree, I have no issues what so ever paying for the NHS every month out of my salary. I consider it an inalienable human right that every citizen should be entitled to healthcare regardless of their income and a pillar of western civilization.

[tankbug]

You're friend is not hypocritical, he would only be that if he now claimed that society should pay for his friend's injuries while at the same time be against socialized medicine. But he's clearly made the wrong choice if he now has to spend time begging, with uncertain results, instead of leaving it in the capable hands of the society to take care of your friend. Hopefully people who get to taste the problems that their extreme political views are causing, think twice about their ideas.

[Release]

You didn't answer my question, you just used a logical fallacy called "proof by example".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example



I dunno. You've kinda damaged your own credibility with that post.

I did answer your question, I listed some forms of corruption and said if it was set up correctly those could be completely avoided. Then gave you an example of how a government run healthcare system doesn't have to be corrupt which seems to be a great fear of conservatives.

[Deletedaccount1]

I check my Facebook earlier tonight, and his best friend got into a bad motorcycle accident earlier in the day. Crashed into a guard rail and flew into the trees. Doesn't look like he's doing good either. Immediately he sets up a Gofundme account for him and is spamming the link every hour. Basically it says that his friend doesn't have insurance, and is raising money to pay for hospital bills and any other costs that will occur for medical attention.

So I think to myself "This is the same mofo that IS SOOOO against socialized medicine which would cover his friends healthcare, but he has the nerve to go around begging for money for him".

Isn't it abit hypocritical?

It isn't hypocritical at all.

The conservative position on health care is that it should be private and that the government is the last place that you go to for help. In terms of charitable giving, Republicans on average donate far more to private charities than Democrats do.

http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/repu...ts-not-so-much

[Deleted]

I have a guy on my Facebook from high school who's pretty far right Republican. Loves Trump, thinks Obama is the worst president in US history, screams about his 2nd amendment rights being trampled on, and links articles all day from Fox News and other right wing sites. About a month ago he posted a rant about liberals and socialism, and how things like Obamacare and socialized medicine are just plain dumb.

I check my Facebook earlier tonight, and his best friend got into a bad motorcycle accident earlier in the day. Crashed into a guard rail and flew into the trees. Doesn't look like he's doing good either. Immediately he sets up a Gofundme account for him and is spamming the link every hour. Basically it says that his friend doesn't have insurance, and is raising money to pay for hospital bills and any other costs that will occur for medical attention.

So I think to myself "This is the same mofo that IS SOOOO against socialized medicine which would cover his friends healthcare, but he has the nerve to go around begging for money for him".

Isn't it abit hypocritical?

Irony is amusing.
Socialized medicine is making sure everyone gets what they need, preferably when they need it. If you're against that, then you should always save a lot of money for when you might get seriously sick or injured.

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It isn't hypocritical at all.

The conservative position on health care is that it should be private and that the government is the last place that you go to for help. In terms of charitable giving, Republicans on average donate far more to private charities than Democrats do.

http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/repu...ts-not-so-much

It's hypocritical because it argues against one kind of charity but condones another.

[Deletedaccount1]

It's hypocritical because it argues against one kind of charity but condones another.

Charity is voluntary by definition. Compulsory taxation to pay for others health care is not.

[Slant]

Charity is voluntary by definition. Compulsory taxation to pay for others health care is not.

Arguing semantics is fun, isn't it?

[tankbug]

It isn't hypocritical at all.

The conservative position on health care is that it should be private and that the government is the last place that you go to for help. In terms of charitable giving, Republicans on average donate far more to private charities than Democrats do.

http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/repu...ts-not-so-much

Yeah, which is part of the problem. Republicans may not want to contribute to hospitals or programs our elected officials want to focus on, and rather give to charities that they are interested in. "Sorry kids, no hospital for you, my charity money goes towards private jets for TV preachers, so they can more efficiently preach to teenagers about how dangerous premarital sex and masturbation is".

[Deletedaccount1]

Arguing semantics is fun, isn't it?

It isn't semantics. Taxation isn't charity.

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Yeah, which is part of the problem. Republicans may not want to contribute to hospitals or programs our elected officials want to focus on, and rather give to charities that they are interested in. "Sorry kids, no hospital for you, my charity money goes towards private jets for TV preachers, so they can more efficiently preach to teenagers about how dangerous premarital sex and masturbation is".

That isn't true.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2012/06/01/giving-differently-liberals-and-conservatives-have-radically-different-views-of-charity/#26e1958314ec

Republicans generally give more money to charities that provide a private structure and create order, as opposed to Democrats who generally donate to charities that promote equality.

I'm not defending televangelists but it is false to say that Republicans only or even mostly donate to them over other charities.

[Slant]

It isn't semantics. Taxation isn't charity.

In a democratic country you can always attempt to change things. However, the majority would be against you. As an entity, the people prefer higher taxes for a working social security system including healthcare. As I said, semantics are fun, but hardly constructive.

[Deletedaccount1]

In a democratic country you can always attempt to change things. However, the majority would be against you. As an entity, the people prefer higher taxes for a working social security system including healthcare. As I said, semantics are fun, but hardly constructive.

It depends on the country.

Most people in Japan are strongly against socialized medicine since it is partly what is driving us into a spiral of debt that we can't get out of.

It is the view of most American conservatives that a free market solution to health care is the best for the consumer and promotes altruism to help those in need. There is a reason why Americans donate far more to charity than Europeans do.

[Slant]

It depends on the country.

Most people in Japan are strongly against socialized medicine since it is partly what is driving us into a spiral of debt that we can't get out of.

It is the view of most American conservatives that a free market solution to health care is the best for the consumer and promotes altruism to help those in need. There is a reason why Americans donate far more to charity than Europeans do.

I did not know that about Japan. As for charity in the US, I think it's well meant but highly inefficient. Who's verifying what happens to the money? Who's taking care that it's going into actually useful programs and not... I don't know, teddy bears for children's with measles? See, it always looks great on pictures when you have smiling children, but a single mom with a broken leg otu of work for the duration not able to feed her kid and herself? Not so great a picture for the ego...

But I know the typical response: "It's her own fault, she should just have worked three jobs instead of two when she was healthy!"

[Deletedaccount1]

I did not know that about Japan. As for charity in the US, I think it's well meant but highly inefficient. Who's verifying what happens to the money? Who's taking care that it's going into actually useful programs and not... I don't know, teddy bears for children's with measles?

http://www.forbes.com/top-charities/

It is useful, it helps millions of people in the U.S. and abroad. Americans are incredibly altruistic people, I don't want to nation bash but Europeans seem very unable to understand the importance of this trait and why it is valued in the United States.

[Aggrophobic]

It isn't hypocritical at all.

The conservative position on health care is that it should be private and that the government is the last place that you go to for help. In terms of charitable giving, Republicans on average donate far more to private charities than Democrats do.

http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/repu...ts-not-so-much

That only tells you that people with money vote for the party that wants lower taxes though. It has nothing to do with how charitable you are.
It's easy to give away a few houndreds if you have millions. Not so easy if you have nothing.

[Deletedaccount1]

@Slant

You are just characterizing my position now with an emotional appeal. The fact is that the world would be a much worse place if the United States was not as altruistic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

There is no reasonable explanation for why Kenyans are more altruistic than Norwegians except for the fact that Norwegians are used to going to the government for all their needs and lack the moral foundation to be individually altruistic.

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That only tells you that people with money vote for the party that wants lower taxes though. It has nothing to do with how charitable you are.
It's easy to give away a few houndreds if you have millions. Not so easy if you have nothing.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/20/religion-politics-affect-americans-philanthropy/?page=all

That isn't the case. Some of the richest states in the country donate the least to charity while some of the poorest people in the poorest states donate the most.

[some guy]

I have a guy on my Facebook from high school who's pretty far right Republican. Loves Trump, thinks Obama is the worst president in US history, screams about his 2nd amendment rights being trampled on, and links articles all day from Fox News and other right wing sites. About a month ago he posted a rant about liberals and socialism, and how things like Obamacare and socialized medicine are just plain dumb.

I check my Facebook earlier tonight, and his best friend got into a bad motorcycle accident earlier in the day. Crashed into a guard rail and flew into the trees. Doesn't look like he's doing good either. Immediately he sets up a Gofundme account for him and is spamming the link every hour. Basically it says that his friend doesn't have insurance, and is raising money to pay for hospital bills and any other costs that will occur for medical attention.

So I think to myself "This is the same mofo that IS SOOOO against socialized medicine which would cover his friends healthcare, but he has the nerve to go around begging for money for him".

Isn't it abit hypocritical?

I find it very hypocritical that someone from the party of personal responsibility it looking for a handout.

[khalltusk]

http://www.forbes.com/top-charities/

It is useful, it helps millions of people in the U.S. and abroad. Americans are incredibly altruistic people, I don't want to nation bash but Europeans seem very unable to understand the importance of this trait and why it is valued in the United States.

Mainly because we have better social programs like national health services? It would be like calling the fire brigade, then being told you need to pay them for putting out the fire after the fact and for a large lump sum. The UK government spends millions in foreign aid (I think its even billions). We also have lots of charities here, and they seem to do rather well for the most part.

Having Health care police and fire services as part of general taxation makes perfect sense. Britain changed this back in the 40s and 50s on wards as during WW2 we changed our medical services to treat anyone with out charge due to it being an emergency. After the war they formed the NHS as they finally saw the sense in having it.

As for Japans health service putting them into debt that's not quite true for the information I found. Their health service is quite rightly praised - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan just a rough source on how its run and costs. Not seen many or any sources saying their health service is to blame in part or full for their financial crisis.

[WernerCD]

Conservative rhetoric sigh. What do you mean exactly by "corrupt?" Who is benefiting? how are they benefiting? what do you think would befall America if it went single payer? Stop dealing in vagaries.

From where I stand the insurance industry in America is wholly corrupt anyway so your assertion that it would be corrupted by government seems a little silly.

What will befall America? Look at the VA... Long lines, fudging numbers to get bonuses while individuals die on waiting lists... Thats what we need... expanded VA care for everyone!!!

[Deletedaccount1]

Mainly because we have better social programs like national health services? It would be like calling the fire brigade, then being told you need to pay them for putting out the fire after the fact and for a large lump sum.

Having Health care police and fire services as part of general taxation makes perfect sense. Britain changed this back in the 40s and 50s on wards as during WW2 we changed our medical services to treat anyone with out charge due to it being an emergency. After the war they formed the NHS as they finally saw the sense in having it.

As for Japans health service putting them into debt that's not quite true for the information I found. Their health service is quite rightly praised - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan just a rough source on how its run and costs.

Europeans privately donate far less than Americans to international charities though, that is the point I was trying to make.

And no Japan's health care is fucking awful. Old people go to the doctor every week for a check up and get free prescriptions for things they don't need at the expense of the young, working taxpayer.