Are 2004 "casuals" and 2016 "casuals" the same?

[styil]

The common argument for keeping the current status-quo in World of Warcraft (and even making the game easier) is that WoW has always been a "casual game". However, I believe that there has been a generational shift in the last 12 years, and that the playstyle habits of "casual" players in 2004 do not resemble the playstyle habits of "casual" players in 2016. I think that 2004 "casuals" would be classified more as "hardcore" players by today's standards. If someone told me back in 2004 that it's very possible to get to max level in several hours I would have assumed that they were delusional. Or that spamming 1 profession item could max your profession level. Or that all the resources that you'd ever need were all found in a one stop location.

Therefore I believe that using the "casual" argument to justify the continuous easing of non-Mythic raid content over the last 12 years is disingenuous at best. It is very clear that the difficulty of and time investment into the game has significantly changed over the years, and the playstyle habits of players in 2004 is very different to the playstyle habits of players now.

Do you feel that the "casual" term as used in 2016 is referring to players of the same playstyle habits as it was in 2004? Why/Why not? What are the implications of this (if any)?

[Toxigen]

The average MMORPG player was FAR different than the average MMORPG player today.

Quantifying / defining casual, from a pure standpoint of "number of hours devoted to game," should reflect the average.

MMORPGs of '04 and earlier required far, far more time...to do anything. Your casuals of 2016 would have quit and asked for their money back.

Sorry kids, you missed the golden era.

[Deleted]

No.

In 2004 the term didn't really exist... it was more you just didn't play as much

in 2016 it means you suck and want to be carried and or have lfr become a vehicle to get BiS gear.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

No.

in 2016 it means you suck and want to be carried.

Who, besides assholes, defines it like this?

[Deleted]

Who, besides assholes, defines it like this?

I would assume anyone who has spent more then three minutes with a "casual" player.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Casuals back then were the guys who rarely found their way into groups because they mostly looked at "damage" on weapons as a warlock.
Casuals didn't really put anything into learning the game or how it worked, they simply ran around killing boars, doing some quests and occasionally asked a level 60 "HOW ARE YOU SO FAST??? WHERE CAN I GET A WOLF TO RIDE?!?!11

Since they game is far easier today and much more intuitive for new players casuals are now able to reach max level and join raids/dungeons. Most of the time the tryhards, veterans, elitists, pro, joes and heroic raiders of old can carry these new casuals because they aren't that bad.
Casuals today can do so much more with the game today than they could before.

[Deleted]

I think people forget just how different the gaming and specifically MMO scene was back then. I do think they mean different things now to then but seriously why would those definitions have stayed the same in an environment that has changed o drastically.


For the record, I think those changes have been for the most part, fantastic.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

See, it's people like you, who act like "casuals" are ruining the game. The guy who joins a random BG and sees a fresh level 100 and calls him out.
Joins a dungeon a starts inspecting talents telling people what to do.

[PaladinBash]

2004 WoW was a casual EQ and I loved it for that. I quit EQ because it made even raiding in WoW seem a breeze.

[Deleted]

See, it's people like you, who act like "casuals" are ruining the game. The guy who joins a random BG and sees a fresh level 100 and calls him out.
Joins a dungeon a starts inspecting talents telling people what to do.

Trying to get people to improve and pull their own weight isn't a bad thing casual...

[TheWindWalker]

I would assume anyone who has spent more then three minutes with a "casual" player.

This forum regularly sees a phrasing similar to "my casual guild is progressing Mythic" two to three months after the world first race is over. Almost no one defines it as "that guy who doesn't know how to play the game and wants someone else to carry him."

[Deleted]

The common argument for keeping the current status-quo in World of Warcraft (and even making the game easier) is that WoW has always been a "casual game". However, I believe that there has been a generational shift in the last 12 years, and that the playstyle habits of "casual" players in 2004 do not resemble the playstyle habits of "casual" players in 2016. I think that 2004 "casuals" would be classified more as "hardcore" players by today's standards. If someone told me back in 2004 that it's very possible to get to max level in several hours I would have assumed that they were delusional. Or that spamming 1 profession item could max your profession level. Or that all the resources that you'd ever need were all found in a one stop location.

Therefore I believe that using the "casual" argument to justify the continuous easing of non-Mythic raid content over the last 12 years is disingenuous at best. It is very clear that the difficulty of and time investment into the game has significantly changed over the years, and the playstyle habits of players in 2004 is very different to the playstyle habits of players now.

Do you feel that the "casual" term as used in 2016 is referring to players of the same playstyle habits as it was in 2004? Why/Why not? What are the implications of this (if any)?

Most of the difficulty in Vanilla was that your class simply didn't have tools to handle certain situations. Personally I wouldn't call it difficulty, since in many cases you didn't have any options. Some classes could handle elites, relatively easily as well, while other classes, no matter how well played, wouldn't be able to handle a single elite.

There also seems to be a common misconception that time invested somehow should relate to reward, on a much larger scale than skill. How is that fair? If I'm a great player, and I don't have 5+ hours a day to spend on the game, then I shouldn't play it? How is that good design? I can be multiple times better than some other guy, but simply because he can spend a lot more time on the game? I'd much rather have the system today, where if you play well, you can get shit done with a few hours of play time a day. Time should not be the restricting factor in a game, skill should.

Edit: Also, to the people saying the game is much easier today. Please be more specific when you say that, because someone might think you are talking about the classes. And if you truly believe classes are easier to play today than back then, then you are so utterly wrong.

[Deleted]

I have always considered myself as casual, even more so back in vanilla and i cleared all content except C'thun and Naxxramas

I just think that people like to see themselves as cool hardcore players just because they have played the game longer then others.

The only people i know that are hardcore in my eyes are people that were high rank in pvp in vanilla because they were on all the time or the few people i know that actually cleared all or almost all of Naxxramas.

[Bodom]

They have changed a lot, but I'm not sure if Blizzard understands what casual players want. As a casual player I want accessability but that doesn't mean I want faceroll-easy. The content I feel is aimed at me is content I can finish in no time, and when I'm done there's not really much else to do. I got my legendary ring, I killed Archimonde on normal and LFR, I got Draenor Pathfinder, my garrisons are maxed out, all my favourite characters have full PvP gear or empowered apexis gear, I got the Infinite Timereaver, got my mythic heirloom trinkets, all the Kazzak gear I need... I mean I've never played less yet "achieved" so much. Many of my characters barely have a few hours /played at 100, I don't know what to do with them. In MoP I did LFR for ages because I needed gear, because gearing up is also fun, but now the only way to progress is doing normal and to get a normal group I'd have to use the cross realm group finder where requirements are stupid and running your own group will only make you more frustrated. LFR even felt a bit like raiding back then too, I did both flex and LFR at that time and they were properly balanced compared to each other in my opinion.

I don't know.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Trying to get people to improve and pull their own weight isn't a bad thing casual...

When you instantly act like they're the worst thing and they ruin your experience... You're not trying to help anyone, you're flaming them.
It only exposes your ignorance to call me a casual, I've been playing this game since release, I grew up on it. I've accomplished a lot in this game and it wasn't by treating new players like crap because I'm better than them.

[Deleted]

This forum regularly sees a phrasing similar to "my casual guild is progressing Mythic" two to three months after the world first race is over. Almost no one defines it as "that guy who doesn't know how to play the game and wants someone else to carry him."

Exceptions don't make the rule... the lions share of people who call themselves casuals are simply awful at the game and use it as a kind of out.

[Sinyc]

No.

In 2004 the term didn't really exist... it was more you just didn't play as much

in 2016 it means you suck and want to be carried and or have lfr become a vehicle to get BiS gear.

Welcome to the Facebook game generation?

Also the term may or may not have existed in 2004 as you say, but the same lazy, uninitiated people still existed.

[Deleted]

When you instantly act like they're the worst thing and they ruin your experience... You're not trying to help anyone, you're flaming them.
It only exposes your ignorance to call me a casual, I've been playing this game since release, I grew up on it. I've accomplished a lot in this game and it wasn't by treating new players like crap because I'm better than them.

See here is the thing they kind of are...

The worst decisions in the game seem to have been made to try and foolishly appease a casual player base. From turning heroics into a joke, to effectively removing normal as a difficulty and even lfr. All the slow poisons leeching away at the game tend to all of been blundered attempts to market to the "casual" players. WoD and MoP are just the jewels on the crown of blizzards choice to chase the lowest denominator regardless of cost..

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That's ridiculous. Who are you to determine what makes someone awful at the game? Not everyone is as committed or play it for the same reasons/outcome.

The fact you respond with this kinda reaffirms my beliefs to be honest...

[Sansnom]

Do you feel that the "casual" term as used in 2016 is referring to players of the same playstyle habits as it was in 2004? Why/Why not? What are the implications of this (if any)?

It has become a generic word with different meaning to different people. Some use it to define their play style, some use it was a derogatory label.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

See here is the thing they kind of are...
The worst decisions in the game seem to have been made to try and foolishly appease a casual player base. From turning heroics into a joke, to effectively removing normal as a difficulty and even lfr. All the slow poisons leeching away at the game tend to all of been blundered attempts to market to the "casual" players. WoD and MoP are just the jewels on the crown of blizzards choice to chase the lowest denominator regardless of cost..

The hardcore game is still there, not as much as before casuals aren't taking anything from you.
If anything botters and cheaters are ruining the game, at least on the pvp side. They even ruined blizzcon 2 years ago.

Also, have you gotten rank 1?
Cleared mythic before nerfs?
sheesh... casual