[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

you'd still want a decent amount of crit for those stolen power buffed demonbolts and doom doubled(whatever the name is) buffed dooms.

[Kithelle]

I just want the inquisitor back ;-;

Even as a glyph, blizz? I don't need two floating heads to summon.

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Actually if the Inquisitor became a glyph and could be applied to the Imp (as they're both caster demons) that would be great. Could also be applied to the beholder and retain its original function. Just when applied to the imp summon it shoots out shadowfrost bolts instead of firebolts but retains its defensive abilities renamed and whatnot to match the inquisitor.

I don't think they would do that, I mean changing the smallest demon we have to possibly the tallest demon we've ever had under permanent control?

Like it was suggested in another thread...I'd rather have the Beholder as a permanent pet but pretty much how he functions right now...follows the master around and attacks targets that are doomed.

[Gnarilex]

They're both casters. I just want the ability to have it back. Permanently would be preferred but I will settle to glyph the spell back to the original demon. They're all about cosmetic glyphs this expansion, so hopefully it turns up.

[Juicyjonny]

What is the demonology rotation currently for beta? Is anyone aware of it?

When do we use Demonic Empowerment? What is the minimum number of pets that it should be refreshed at?

[Deleted]

What is the demonology rotation currently for beta? Is anyone aware of it?

When do we use Demonic Empowerment? What is the minimum number of pets that it should be refreshed at?

well its a bit difficult to answer those things when certain talents all changes your rotation and demonic empowerment usage but 1 thing i do know and that is that demonic empowerment should never be refreshed, it should always be cast after you summoned pets coz that way it lasts for the entire duration of those pets.

[Deleted]

well its a bit difficult to answer those things when certain talents all changes your rotation and demonic empowerment usage but 1 thing i do know and that is that demonic empowerment should never be refreshed, it should always be cast after you summoned pets coz that way it lasts for the entire duration of those pets.

An argument could probably be made for HoG Imps dealing not allot of damage, that waiting X time before buffing them allows you to cast more shadowbolts. My guess would be, HoG -> SB -> Dreadstalkers -> DE (or without SB if you have free stalkers). Sure your 4 imps are not buffed for 2+1,5+1,5=5s without haste. But you cast 1 less DE and could make that an extra SB which would add another IMP and good damage if you take demonbolt. Overall you probably need 100% uptime on DE for your biggest demons though.

If we take as much special demons as possible (service + beholder talent), we might not want to use em all at the same time as they will lose DE uptime if we do that. Until we get the 40% extra damage on doomguard cast legendary maybe .

[Deleted]

What I wanted to ask for those who have access:
what do you feel about demo right now? Is it fun to play? Not regarding any numbers...

[Esinar]

What I wanted to ask for those who have access:
what do you feel about demo right now? Is it fun to play? Not regarding any numbers...

In my opinion it's the best spec of the three, in that I enjoy playing Demo the most. With that being said I understand it's not for everyone. Your direct damage only makes up 20-30% of the overall damage with the rest coming from pets. You also spend the majority (50%+) of your time not actually dealing much direct damage, instead summoning and buffing so I'd understand why some people don't like that. The main draw for me is that you always feel like you're doing or looking out for something - whether it be procs, cooldowns or general buffs/debuffs. Some disagree, but that's my opinion. I think the spec/rotation is very fluid and fun.

My main issue is with the pets' AI and general control/actions. There's still a lot of stuff that's frustrating and annoying with pets and I'm not holding my breath that they'll get fixed... but we'll see. Cast times also cause issues in some very select situations but it's not a huge deal as I once thought it was.

[Deleted]

Can the summoned pets die like from boss aoe ?

[Baconeggcheese]

What I wanted to ask for those who have access:
what do you feel about demo right now? Is it fun to play? Not regarding any numbers...

Single target is fun / intuitive, it keeps you busy but is intuitive enough that you really don't need addons to do it at a respectable level.

Multi-target doesn't change much except you're casting doom and potentially summoning the beholder.

AoE doesn't feel good, the intention seems like you spend your time fishing for shards with demonwrath (not doing much dmg with it) and then summoning imps from there while beholder / hand of doom does dmg and you potentially sacrifice the imps with implosion or let more imps spawn with impending doom. It can work fine, but it doesn't feel as smooth / intuitive as the ST rotation and you *need* talents to make it function, which is a common trend across all the specs.

[Deleted]

it feels like its going to be a lot like how demo aoe functioned in the past, atleast thats how it looks for me just without having to be in melee.
certainly less simplistic than it is now where you basically only use cata+cw.

[Juicyjonny]

well its a bit difficult to answer those things when certain talents all changes your rotation and demonic empowerment usage but 1 thing i do know and that is that demonic empowerment should never be refreshed, it should always be cast after you summoned pets coz that way it lasts for the entire duration of those pets.

You make it sound like a warning?? Why not just refresh it? I summoned 4 imps and I put up demonic empowerment but I also got another 4 imps because I was gaining shards really fast. Why not just refresh it so now I have 8 imps with +buff.

[Deleted]

like i wrote in the post you quoted, it should always be casted after you summon pets, you dont cast it to refresh DE on previosly summoned pets, you cast it to buff newly summoned pets.

might be a good idea to not use the word "refresh" when you mean "recast" as "refresh" would indicate that you mean refresh it on old pets. it shouldnt be difficult to follow the words ive bolded tho which is generally what you should do with DE.

[Soulzar]

In other words, normal rotational use will both buff your new summons and refresh your existing ones who are already buffed.

[Deleted]

Assuming a single target scenario, you essentially trade 3/4 of a Shadow Bolt for Demonic Empowerment, no? So we'd need to calculate what the worth of 3/4ths of a Soul Shard and ~71% spell power shadow damage is.
As Summon Dreadstalkers would be used on cooldown anyway, it really comes down to Hand of Gul'Dan for the worth of a Soul Shard. I'm simplifying things a little(As you really would just delay Hand of Gul'Dan for longer until you can cast it with 4 shards), but for an additional Soul Shard, you'd deal 36% additional Shadow Damage and summon an additional imp. Hence we get to 27% Shadow Damage and 3/4ths of an imp. Therefore a Demonic Empowerment needs to be worth at least ~98% of Spell Power in Shadow Damage and 3/4 of an imp. Now, a single Imp Empowered would be worth 1/2 of an imp, so assuming that 98% of Spell Power would be worth more than 1/4 of an Imp but less than 1 1/4 of an imp, we would arrive at the conclusion that Demonic Empowerment would be worth re-casting if it affects at least 3 new imps.

[Deleted]

In other words, normal rotational use will both buff your new summons and refresh your existing ones who are already buffed.

true, altho you dont cast the DE again to refresh the old buff as it already lasts for longer than the duration of those pets but rather to buff the new pets.

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Assuming a single target scenario, you essentially trade 3/4 of a Shadow Bolt for Demonic Empowerment, no? So we'd need to calculate what the worth of 3/4ths of a Soul Shard and ~71% spell power shadow damage is.
As Summon Dreadstalkers would be used on cooldown anyway, it really comes down to Hand of Gul'Dan for the worth of a Soul Shard. I'm simplifying things a little(As you really would just delay Hand of Gul'Dan for longer until you can cast it with 4 shards), but for an additional Soul Shard, you'd deal 36% additional Shadow Damage and summon an additional imp. Hence we get to 27% Shadow Damage and 3/4ths of an imp. Therefore a Demonic Empowerment needs to be worth at least ~98% of Spell Power in Shadow Damage and 3/4 of an imp. Now, a single Imp Empowered would be worth 1/2 of an imp, so assuming that 98% of Spell Power would be worth more than 1/4 of an Imp but less than 1 1/4 of an imp, we would arrive at the conclusion that Demonic Empowerment would be worth re-casting if it affects at least 3 new imps.

i could imagine DE being useless if you're using demonbolt when you have a large amount of pets out.

[garonne]

random observation, and curious what you guys think, but the classes with "pets" as their Main burst CD isnt really their "burst Cd". we may not be looking at it from the current view point. hear me out and let me know what you think. this will include other classes as well that fit this mold.

unholy - Army of the Dead/Gargoyle
their supposedly main CD (DT could be considered minor) but they have a row of talents that augments this playstyle.

Lvl 100 talent row
Dark Arbiter for single target burst... Defile for AoE Burst... and Soul Cleaver for sustained single target
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Ele Shaman - Fire elemental
their supposedly main CD but they have talents to augment this playstyle

Lvl 100 Talent row
Ascendance for single target burst.... Icefury for single target sustained.... Liquid Magma for Aoe Burst
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Enh Shaman - Spirit Wolves
their supposedly main CD but they have talents to augment this playstyle

Lvl 100 talent row
Ascendance for single target burst... Fury of Air for sustained Aoe.... Earthen Spike for Sustained Aoe
unlike the rest fury of aoe break this mold but still provides the augment
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Warlock - doomguard
their supposedly main CD but they have talents to augment this playstyle

Lvl 60 Talent row

Affliction
Siphon Life for sustained single target..... Sow of Seed for Aoe Burst.... Soul Harvest for single target burst

Destro
Eradication for sustained single target (dont chain cast CB, its more CB> spell > spell > CB to keep the 12% damage rolling)..... Cataclysm for AoE burst........... Soul Harvest for single target burst

Demo
Hand of Doom (honestly it doesnt fit but i guess could be sustained or burst AoE?).... Power Trip for sustained single target....Soul Harvest for Burst single target

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So the Pet as Main CD thing while annoying can be assisted with the augment of Talents. The pets are "supposed" to be good dps cooldowns themselves but with these extras improve that gameplay.

[Kithelle]

Single target is fun / intuitive, it keeps you busy but is intuitive enough that you really don't need addons to do it at a respectable level.

Multi-target doesn't change much except you're casting doom and potentially summoning the beholder.

AoE doesn't feel good, the intention seems like you spend your time fishing for shards with demonwrath (not doing much dmg with it) and then summoning imps from there while beholder / hand of doom does dmg and you potentially sacrifice the imps with implosion or let more imps spawn with impending doom. It can work fine, but it doesn't feel as smooth / intuitive as the ST rotation and you *need* talents to make it function, which is a common trend across all the specs.

Yup...gonna be even more talent respeccing during legion lol.

Hopefully demonwrath will get a buff...

[Juicyjonny]

In other words, normal rotational use will both buff your new summons and refresh your existing ones who are already buffed.

Which is exactly what I was trying to say. You are not going to NOT rebuff the old pets. But yes, you're right in the sense that I am not casting it with the sole intention of buffing the old pets but the new pets only.

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true, altho you dont cast the DE again to refresh the old buff as it already lasts for longer than the duration of those pets but rather to buff the new pets.

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i could imagine DE being useless if you're using demonbolt when you have a large amount of pets out.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. We've already established that you are not casting DE with the sole intention of buffing the old pets but the new pets. But you do want to cast DE to get as much time as possible with pets with the buff.

[Deleted]

Which is exactly what I was trying to say. You are not going to NOT rebuff the old pets. But yes, you're right in the sense that I am not casting it with the sole intention of buffing the old pets but the new pets only.

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I don't understand what you're trying to say. We've already established that you are not casting DE with the sole intention of buffing the old pets but the new pets. But you do want to cast DE to get as much time as possible with pets with the buff.

and ive already answered your question.

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Demo
Hand of Doom (honestly it doesnt fit but i guess could be sustained or burst AoE?).... Power Trip for sustained single target....Soul Harvest for Burst single target

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So the Pet as Main CD thing while annoying can be assisted with the augment of Talents. The pets are "supposed" to be good dps cooldowns themselves but with these extras improve that gameplay.

actually, soul harvest is as much for burst aoe as it is for ST.