Mafia 68: The West Wing

[Graeham]

^ Scum.

I'd say that's more applicable to you at this point. If I end up dead tonight then hopefully people will finally lynch Dupti. Thanks for outing another TPR though. I guess having one TPR strongly imply that Dupti is scum wasn't enough, eh?

@Cruelle: I'd like to appeal against Val's lynch.

[Deleted]

I'd say that's more applicable to you at this point. If I end up dead tonight then hopefully people will finally lynch Dupti. Thanks for outing another TPR though. I guess having one TPR strongly imply that Dupti is scum wasn't enough, eh?

@Cruelle: I'd like to appeal against Val's lynch.

Duly Noted. You will be notified if your appeal is successful at the end of the day.

[Reticence]

Well, that's interesting.

@Graeham:

This random appeal thing aside, do you actually have corroborating evidence against Dupti or in favor of Val? Are the two linked for you beyond the fact that some people want to lynch one and not the other? Or are you just adamant in your personal reads and taking a stand?

[Senna1251]

Page 40, post #792: Virothe, the mafia Senator has great sway over the appeals committee and greatly influences their decisions.

For review....

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@Reticence the repeal thing is not nothing, it's a power role claim. I can hazard a guess at your questions based on Graeham's posts, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth, I'll let him answer them. Though since the mod had responded in kind, the claim is true, and it's very likely a town role given Virothe's flavor text.

[Reticence]

Well, yeah. What I am asking Graeham is whether or not he has more than Strikered's votes and his own reads behind his appeal. Just because he can influence the lynch doesn't necessarily mean he's right about Val.

And I partly agree with your latter statement. That Graeham has influence over the lynch is obvious, but just because he's essentially mod confirmed to have that ability doesn't necessarily mean he's town (such as in the case of an Innocent Child), as I could definitely see more scum influences around a body such as the Appeals Committee. What has me thinking he's town and has me seriously reconsidering my vote and my read on everyone is that he's sticking his neck out for Val, regardless of whether or not he's actually right.

[Graeham]

@Reticence:

It's the latter scenario. I can't shake the feeling that Dupti is bad news and it's unnerving how little pressure he has gotten throughout the game for the reasons outlined in my earlier posts. Val, to me, feels very much like a convenient scapegoat. He's being branded a 'policy lynch' but the reasoning for that feels flawed since unlike Kel and Satsu it's not like he's making zero contributions to the game. He's been quiet, yes, but that's applicable to the vast majority of people in this game - ironically including myself and many of the people voting on Val themselves.

@Senna: Interesting. I didn't catch that. My ability isn't a guarantee, so there's no certainty that Val will be spared. All I know is that someone or perhaps multiple players look at my appeal and either accept or dismiss it.

[Reticence]

@Valyrian the Moofia Boss: Anything you'd like to add?

[Deleted]

Vote Count:



Val..: 7- Dendrek(1023)/ Dupti(1024)/ Kryll(1041)/ Xanjori(1066)/ Catta(1079)/ Reticence(1080)/ Robo(1083)/
Dupti: 4- Graeham(1045)/ Val(1071)/ Senna(1084)/ Kurenai(1089)/

Graeham: 1- Celtic(1025)/
Robo.: 1- Monkz(1039)/

[Senna1251]

@Reticence @Graeham ah OK, fair enough. I misunderstood. I was basing my argument on Virothe's role card, it does seem that we can't align Graham's role as specifically town or mafia.

I am still town reading Graeham from a motivations perspective. I'm wondering about the alignment of the appeals committee though.

[Reticence]

I am still town reading Graeham from a motivations perspective. I'm wondering about the alignment of the appeals committee though.

100% Agreed.

[Senna1251]

2 hours and 20 minutes left in the day. ...

[Reticence]

Looking at that vote count, I am also not a big fan of the way that's turned out.

Unvote
Vote: Dupti

@Graeham: Do you think Dendrek is scum, or misguided?

[Graeham]

@Graeham: Do you think Dendrek is scum, or misguided?

I lean more towards the idea that he's just misguided.

[Deleted]

I lean more towards the idea that he's just misguided.

Can you explain what you just did please.

[KurenaiXIII]

Was this a reply to something I've said, or was this a reply to Celtic's comments about me?

That was a reply to you postulating that I and Dupti could be TPRs along with Arlee, Senna, and I think Danner, plus Strikered. I don't think we have that many TPRs, but I could be wrong.

Now I'm going out to hang wtih family for a while--I'll probably be back by evening, but I can't say when for sure.

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But definitely not before day ends. :x

[Xanjori]

Does it seem we've been given no choice here other than to go for the Dupti lynch? I mean it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I'm not sure I approve of Graehams choice here, this is a big play to make on feelings.

[dupti]

Jesus christ, I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short, not sure when I'll be back.

Strikered obviously didn't have a check on me. Dendrek has already done a better job at explaining this than I cold.
He explictily stated that his scum read was based on nothing but playstyle. It's very interesting that people are trying to question this. If Strikered would try to keep a low profile, he would've hints for when he died that he had something on me - not directly claim the opposite. Scum are very likely to push this angle since they can attempt to 'scumhunt' (notice the people doing it: Graeham, Val and Kurenai - no scumhunt or content so far).

I was one of his scumreads. He listed me, Danner, Kurenai and Jynx as his top scum (maybe I missed someone). He said he found pretty much everyone but his town reads suspicious but those were his top scum. He obviously didn't have a check on all of us (esp. considering Jynx was a VT). Jynx was dead when he posted this though.
Strikered never said I was more suspicious than the rest on the list, in fact he just claimed all of us were his top scum.

Based on the push itself it should be obvious it's a scum push. If you find me scummy based on my play, that's fair but hiding behinds Strikered's vote on me is questionable at best.

Valyrian and Kurenai are definitely scum at this point. Graeham's appeal is interesting, but based on his overall play I'd say this is a scum save

It is especially very interesting that Valyrian didn't mention this whole thing (strikered vs me) yesterday, when there was no push in his direction.
Kurenai also just called me town today, yet is now calling me suspicious and voting on me.
I can't help but feel that Val and Kurenai are scumbuddies and that the reason Kurenai moved his vote to me (his townread) is simply because the Uggor train died. This makes me lean more town on Uggor.
Kurenai was then forced to go for the only alternative since we're this close to the deadline (which is me).

Val needs to die today. Kurenai tomorrow and then most likely Graeham. I don't know how the appeal works, so if we can not get Valyrian today then get Kurenai.

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TL DR: The people trying to make a case out of Strikered's push on me is lazy scum play. Strikered explicitly stated himself that it was only based on playstyle and he was only a tracker - maybe he did indeed see me visit someone or maybe he didn't see me visit at anyone. It's irrelevant. I can guarantee that I did not visit any of the dead people, make of that what you will.

The people pushing this are Valyrian (showed no interest in it yesterday, hasn't been scumhunting and has no content), Kurenai (no scumhunting, hasn't tried to push on me yet which he always does early as town) and Graeham (no scumhunting, no scumreads prior to Strikered's flip, since it's easy to pretend to be scumhunting when you can hide behind that. No content at all). ez game

[Senna1251]

It's simple. .. just because Strikered said he was voting Dupti for playstyle reasons doesn't mean that he didn't have a check on Dupti. He still could or could not have. But from Strikered's posts, votes, and flip, it makes the most sense from a tpr motivation perspective that Strikered does indeed have a check on Dupti. That's why my vote is on Dupti.

However, there's no absolutes here. There are no obvious-es here. If you use absolutes in your wording you are not winning me over.

[Deleted]

Jesus christ, I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short, not sure when I'll be back.

Strikered obviously didn't have a check on me. Dendrek has already done a better job at explaining this than I cold.
He explictily stated that his scum read was based on nothing but playstyle. It's very interesting that people are trying to question this. If Strikered would try to keep a low profile, he would've hints for when he died that he had something on me - not directly claim the opposite. Scum are very likely to push this angle since they can attempt to 'scumhunt' (notice the people doing it: Graeham, Val and Kurenai - no scumhunt or content so far).

I was one of his scumreads. He listed me, Danner, Kurenai and Jynx as his top scum (maybe I missed someone). He said he found pretty much everyone but his town reads suspicious but those were his top scum. He obviously didn't have a check on all of us (esp. considering Jynx was a VT). Jynx was dead when he posted this though.
Strikered never said I was more suspicious than the rest on the list, in fact he just claimed all of us were his top scum.

Based on the push itself it should be obvious it's a scum push. If you find me scummy based on my play, that's fair but hiding behinds Strikered's vote on me is questionable at best.

Valyrian and Kurenai are definitely scum at this point. Graeham's appeal is interesting, but based on his overall play I'd say this is a scum save

It is especially very interesting that Valyrian didn't mention this whole thing (strikered vs me) yesterday, when there was no push in his direction.
Kurenai also just called me town today, yet is now calling me suspicious and voting on me.
I can't help but feel that Val and Kurenai are scumbuddies and that the reason Kurenai moved his vote to me (his townread) is simply because the Uggor train died. This makes me lean more town on Uggor.
Kurenai was then forced to go for the only alternative since we're this close to the deadline (which is me).

Val needs to die today. Kurenai tomorrow and then most likely Graeham. I don't know how the appeal works, so if we can not get Valyrian today then get Kurenai.

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TL DR: The people trying to make a case out of Strikered's push on me is lazy scum play. Strikered explicitly stated himself that it was only based on playstyle and he was only a tracker - maybe he did indeed see me visit someone or maybe he didn't see me visit at anyone. It's irrelevant. I can guarantee that I did not visit any of the dead people, make of that what you will.

The people pushing this are Valyrian (showed no interest in it yesterday, hasn't been scumhunting and has no content), Kurenai (no scumhunting, hasn't tried to push on me yet which he always does early as town) and Graeham (no scumhunting, no scumreads prior to Strikered's flip, since it's easy to pretend to be scumhunting when you can hide behind that. No content at all). ez game

A claim would also help

Im not saying your scum but it might help convince the townies on your wagon

[dupti]

It's simple. .. just because Strikered said he was voting Dupti for playstyle reasons doesn't mean that he didn't have a check on Dupti. He still could or could not have. But from Strikered's posts, votes, and flip, it makes the most sense from a tpr motivation perspective that Strikered does indeed have a check on Dupti. That's why my vote is on Dupti.

No Senna, you don't understand my point. If Strikered had a check on me he would NOT claim that it was based on nothing but play style - he would simply leave that part out.

This is pretty much how it went down:

Strikered was scumreading me and tunneling on me. He realises that if he flips, people will think he has something on me so he decides to go out and tell that his reads are based on nothing but playstyle.
He felt that he had to claim that. If he had a check on me, he would've definitely have left that part out.

This has been obvious (I know you don't like that word and I'm probably a bit biased but yeah) to most of the players in this game except the players who has done nothing all game. Do you honestly think that is a coincidence? That the people suddenly pushing hard on this are the people who hasn't been scumhunting? Who has been trying to avoid attention?

To be fair Celtic, I never should've been in this position. I'd like to think I can defend myself, but seeing as I can't guarantee I'll be back before deadline I'm hard claiming doctor. n1: Celtic (thought he softed tpr), n2: myself. n3: Dendrek (solid reads) n4: obv. not going to tell.

Now if the appeal thing is scum, we need a wagon on kurenai. i'll hurry home