Mafia 68: The West Wing

[Xanjori]

And actually to be fair weren't you the one who told Graeham that Palawin was dead when he called him out?

Maybe, but that's a mistake people tend to make quite a lot, so I'm not going to overly read anything into it.

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Also Catta just said he thinks I am town. Did the world just end?

[Deleted]

The people I am fairly sure are town right now are Danner, Xanjori, Graeham, Arlee and also a bit Dupti considering he hasn't been counter claimed.

That leaves

Celtic
Dendrek
Kryllian
Monkz
Reti
Robo
Uggor

Of these I am leaning towards Dendrek being town. And Uggor, Kryl, Monkz and Ret being scum

What about me bebe? :-p

[Catta]

What about me bebe? :-p

You and Robo were not worth expounding upon because you both receive a decisive "Meh..."

:P

[Graeham]

I definitely want to hear from @Danner today. I think he's in a pretty interesting situation at the moment. He mentioned being distracted by unfortunate real life circumstances. He claimed to be a 'bodyguard' which is a role I could see being included in this game given the theme. That he's still alive and hasn't died yet makes me somewhat wary - especially with there being 1-3 kills per night. I know Danner dislikes being scum. He's often very quiet when he's scum. Yet he's also capable of being very devious and coming up with solid fake claims.

[Catta]

Everything here points to you being a liar.

1) You claimed to be ok with lynching Kel (later you backtracked saying it was scummy for people not to push Satsu). If you had an innocent on Kel, that first quote should have never appeared.
2) If you're an investigator, you should absolutely be suspicious of anyone claiming or soft claiming investigator. You thinking Dupti had something is highly inconsistent with your claim. Perhaps you might have concluded he was a tracker/watcher/JOAT, but you shouldn't have been so quick to believe him.
3) You very clearly paint Graeham and Monkz as town in your reads post and me and Reti as scum. If you're an investigator, you should not be posting such clearly visible "investigation" results for us to be mislead by should you die. I think you're a better player than that.

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P.S. I'm surprised you weren't at least a little hesitant to believe Senna's role claim.

He also shouldn't be posting clearly visible "innocents" on Monkz which is what "I have a hunch" would be construed as if he were the investigator. All in all, I think his claim is false. Made to be uncommon on purpose to make it paradoxically more believable.

[Kryllian]

It's morning and we're less than 24 hrs from the next night. Current votes:

Dupti - Kurenai (1149), Graeham (1157)
Uggor - Dendrek (1176), Celtic (1188)
Graeham - Dupti (1160)
Reti - Uggor (1178)

No votes yet
Arlee
Catta
Danner
Kryllian
Monkz
Reti
Robo
Xanj

I'm assuming the non-voters are in the same boat as me, catching up on last night/this morning before going anywhere but don't wait too long, the game's moving quicker now!

[Deleted]

Maybe, but that's a mistake people tend to make quite a lot, so I'm not going to overly read anything into it.

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Also Catta just said he thinks I am town. Did the world just end?

Just saw a pig fly past the window...

Also as both of you are still alive, neither of you have a kill or both of you are on the same scum team

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Can someone post the Dupti trains over the past few days

[Reticence]

Stuff.

Fair enough. That makes a bit more sense. I don't necessarily agree with all of the conclusions, but I can see why you would arrive at them.

I feel like Val would be the perfect target to appeal on behalf of for town credit. No offense to him, but he's easy to lynch, and there wasn't much reason to trust him. If the appeal is ultimately handled by a different party, I suspect Graeham's ability suggests that. Therefore, he would know that it's not an automatic save, but that someone would have to make the choice based on information at the time, which was essentially none.

Given that scum seem more likely to be night killed at the moment than lynched, and that scum would not want to appeal on behalf of their scumbuddies for the sake of appearing scum, it would make sense to use something like that for town credit on a player who could be relatively easy to lynch later anyway, in case it was approved.

Add in the fact that he made a giant public spectacle of it, and that's why I have my doubts. I don't discount the possibility that he is town and why it looks like he is town, but that acknowledgment is tempered heavily by how I would perceive scum to use that ability.

Vote: Reti

Do you want to explain your apparent scum-read on me?

Can anyone who knows about the theme comment on his character claim?

http://westwing.wikia.com/wiki/Toby_Ziegler

White House Communications Director. Town Crier in itself seems rather fitting, but I'm having serious reservations about trusting that the entire Cabinet is town, as much as I'd like to. Either some of them were mixed in with scum to avoid a mass claim win scenario, or scum have some serious powers up their sleeve.

If Uggor is telling the truth about being a second investigate, it is supported somewhat by the knowledge that Virothe( or was it Largehorn?) was investigation immune. Assuming that there is also a Godfather who may also be immune, and the potential for more immune scum, I could see room for two investigates. If we assume that, however, then we have to re-raise our suspicions on Arlee on Danner, which brings us full circle to not the entire Cabinet being town.

Truthfully, I don't know where I stand on this one.

As such, @Arlee, @Danner, I'd like you two to fill in the gaps on your night actions. Arlee, in particular, as that's the closest thing we have to a night action check at this point.

There's genuine reasons as to why I'm very reluctant to highlight who I read as town. I did that yesterday and it backfired - both because whoever the 'President' is refused to have faith in my appeal and because a good deal of players decided to ensure that Val was at risk of being lynched despite my intervention which led to my ability being wasted altogether.

Seriously, stop it.

Based on everything Cruelle posted, it just didn't make a difference. That's not the same as backfiring.

If you're town, give your reads.

[Graeham]

Can someone post the Dupti trains over the past few days

I'll post the relevant vote counts as they stand at the end of each day.

Day 1: Dupti..: 3- Large(31)/ / Reti(76)/ Strikered(96)/

Day 2: Dupti : 2- Strikered(408)/ Arialla(526)

Day 3: Dupti: 1- Strikered(656)/

Day 4: Dupti (1): Danner

Day 5: Dupti: 5- Graeham(1045)/ Val(1071)/ Senna(1084)/ Kurenai(1089)/ Reticence(1112)/

[Arlee]

Point 3 is compelling. I think it's likely the President cannot stop a lynch without a Senator calling for it to be stopped first (in other words, his ability is probably passive unless invoked by another player). Unless Cruelle is just fucking with him, which I highly doubt she'd do, the president's ability to stop a lynch is only useful if a town player invokes that ability. If it's only scum with access to that ability, then Cruelle has given the (most likely) most important TPR an ability that can only play to the scum's advantage. That would be a pretty bastardized role, and I don't see Cruelle doing that. Additionally, why would Virothe have sway over the appeals process if it's only scum making the appeals?

This is an interesting point of view on Greaham's ability and I hadn't thought about it too much.

Arlee - Her power and some of her opinions yell scum to me. Couple this with the fact that she did not reveal her redirect until AFTER senna said she was innocent means arlee get firmly planted in the neutral category at best

Why on earth would I reveal my redirect target unless it could have ended up interfering with Senna's investigate?? All that really would do is give the scum more of an idea who might be a safe target for a night kill, and I have zero interest in making things any easier for scums.

Uggor's claim is interesting. We've seen a role like that before but I forget what it was called then. The character claim of Toby Ziegler is interesting... Toby's a good guy but he often went head to head against the President when he thought what he was doing was wrong. Toby even went to prison for a bit because he revealed classified info about a secret space shuttle to force the President into saving some astronauts... I can't recall atm if his brother was one of the ones up there then. I think he was already dead at that point though.

I am the Town Crier.

If I end the day with a vote on the lynched person, I gain an investigate.

D1 from Crackle, used N1 on lelly, innocent.
D2 from Jynx, used N2 on Kel. Innocent, hence my complete unwillingness to pressure him.
D3 from Satsu used N3 on Virothe, got Innocent and then he died.
D4 from Large, I missed the night deadline for N4, used last night on Graeham, got innocent.

Might seem convenient that I have claimed 3 dead people, but these are all people who are high profile players and targets, and I wanted to get a feel on who I could trust as power players early.

I did not earn an investigate yesterday as I did not end up on the vote for Val.

I could understand investigating kel on the stance of it's generally assumed he'll lurk at least a bit so knowing if it's worthwhile to waste a lynch on him or not would make sense. I could also see voting against him anyway if the thought was he'd likely be lynched and since Uggor needs to be on the lynch target to get an ability. Also imo it's really weird Cru allowed him to use his missed investigate from D4... generally speaking a missed night action is missed and you just lose it.

I can believe two investigators especially when one is contingent...

Something which has me greatly concerned though is we should have 9-10 scum in this game, assuming one faction and a sk. We've only had three scum flips which likely best case scenario is we have 6 out of the remaining 14 alive players as scum. It could be more if there are two scum factions or there are multiple scums who aren't in contact with the main group :/ Also, at this point it's probably safe to assume all of the scum have some sort of power role, which imo makes the likelyhood of many tprs more likely.

[dupti]

That does seem to be corect, although not sure what to think of the parked votes on me day 1. I was the leading train at day 1 until Lelly killed off the train. (by stating that I died n1 last game). This was the train at the time:

Dupti..: 6- Large(31)/ Senna(74)/ Reti(76)/ Strikered(96)/ Robo(129)/ Pala(137)

[Dendrek]

The way Xanjori is talking, I have to wonder if he has me on his ignore list. I don't care that he hasn't mentioned my name, but it does not seem like he realizes I've done or said anything at all today. (I don't think he actually has me on ignore.) It's odd to me that he's attributed two things I've done today as either having no source (in the case of the reads trading thing: I specifically asked the claimed TPRs to provide them) or being pushed by another player (he thinks Uggor is being pushed by Celtic when the extent of Celtic's push was a grand total of 4 sentences). Ultimately it has very little impact on me read on Xanjori, but it's weird.

Cellophane
Mister Cellophane
Shoulda been my name
Mister Cellophane
'Cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me
And never know I'm there...

[dupti]

By the way, @Danner are you still around? You didn't post last day and we're over 24 hours in now.

[Xanjori]

The way Xanjori is talking, I have to wonder if he has me on his ignore list. I don't care that he hasn't mentioned my name, but it does not seem like he realizes I've done or said anything at all today. (I don't think he actually has me on ignore.) It's odd to me that he's attributed two things I've done today as either having no source (in the case of the reads trading thing: I specifically asked the claimed TPRs to provide them) or being pushed by another player (he thinks Uggor is being pushed by Celtic when the extent of Celtic's push was a grand total of 4 sentences). Ultimately it has very little impact on me read on Xanjori, but it's weird.

Ey? I'm just saying that in general it's a thing that people do all throughout the game, and is quite common in games these days. I'm also saying Celtic was quick on the wagon, plus he was on the page I was replying on and his post about Uggors investigate was something that i did agree with, but also felt dodgy about.

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Also after Dendreks post, I decided to look back through all his posts this game. So far he has been 100% sure that Danner, Arlee, Graeham and Val are scum. He has argued very actively to have these people lynched. He has been very active, and provided some very good arguments. The problem is that all his arguments have been to lynch town members. Now he could be having a bad game, but so far every person he has "100%'d" as scum, has been town.

Vote: Dendrek

[Dendrek]

I don't believe Danner would intentionally disappear from the game for strategic reasons. I think Danner has much more respect for us than to do something like that, regardless of his alignment. I think he's either too busy to post (though I can't imagine him being so busy he can't pop in to say "Sorry guys"), or something has happened that's preventing him from posting. Unfortunately, it's looking like he may go two full game days without contributing at all.
@Danner If you are strategically avoiding playing, I'd honestly be very disappointed. I hope everything's ok.

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Also after Dendreks post, I decided to look back through all his posts this game. So far he has been 100% sure that Danner, Arlee, Graeham and Val are scum. He has argued very actively to have these people lynched. He has been very active, and provided some very good arguments. The problem is that all his arguments have been to lynch town members. Now he could be having a bad game, but so far every person he has "100%'d" as scum, has been town.

Vote: Dendrek

I'm surprised no one has done this sooner. You do realize how terrible an argument this is, though. Right? Especially considering that 1) I was never 100% sure Arlee was scum. 2) you and several others have shared my reads on all of the other three. But sure, I'm probably scum because I'm pushing on town.

[Arlee]

As such, @Arlee, @Danner, I'd like you two to fill in the gaps on your night actions. Arlee, in particular, as that's the closest thing we have to a night action check at this point.

Night before last I redirected from Danner to Robo. I didn't want to use it on Senna because I was concerned I could accidentally move off a protection. Last night I unfortunately missed my night action I was debating using my ability on Senna or not because I was trying to guess how likely multiple protections might be and additionally if I thought Danner might be able to protect the same target repeatedly. Near the end of the day I got very busy at work and left later than normal and ended up not making it on until right after night ended. Cruelle said I missed the deadline by 10 minutes Seems like I could have saved Senna too which makes me even more annoyed I missed it.

[Kryllian]

Ok, I'm caught up. Since Dupti has claimed cop and no one has counterclaimed I'm not willing to lynch him yet. The fact that we've only had one kill the last two nights when we've had up to three in the past makes me think that someone's doing their job of protecting and if it was a redirected kill it would have still appeared and if it was bodyguard protected Danner would be dead.

That leaves Uggor as the other lead train and I'm calling BS on his claim. Let's look at his voting which is the basis for his ability to investigate at night.

D1 - First on Crackle Train. Why would you lead a train if your ability relies on making sure you're on the right one? Ok, it's day 1 people have fun I can forgive that.

D2 - 6th of 8 on the Jynx train. This is more how i'd expect to see it played.

D3 - First on the Satsu train. D1 can be written off as luck, but again, why start a train twice and risk your night ability?

D4 - Was the Axe on Large - ok, again but why wait so late...you almost missed it.

D5 - Unless I'm missing something I don't see a vote from you...and you're claiming you had a N5 investigation? I know I was scrolling through the day's activities pretty fast but the last vote update before the day ended had not listed vote from you and I didn't see anything after that or a couple pages before.

Unless someone can find something I missed where Uggor voted D5...I call BS.

Vote: Uggor

[Arlee]

Ok, I'm caught up. Since Dupti has claimed cop

Dupti claimed Doc

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D5 - Unless I'm missing something I don't see a vote from you...and you're claiming you had a N5 investigation? I know I was scrolling through the day's activities pretty fast but the last vote update before the day ended had not listed vote from you and I didn't see anything after that or a couple pages before.

Uggor said he missed his N4 investigate and Cru let him use it N5 instead.

[Xanjori]

I'm surprised no one has done this sooner. You do realize how terrible an argument this is, though. Right? Especially considering that 1) I was never 100% sure Arlee was scum. 2) you and several others have shared my reads on all of the other three. But sure, I'm probably scum because I'm pushing on town.

That doesn't really fly, and my problem is that you didn't just say "I feel these people could be scum" you were "100%". Especially on the Val + Graeham. And Graeham was right, Val was an easy target that in a way made sense for town to lynch. So clearly people are paying enough attention (not saying I am, because I too was hesitant about believing Val was town) to get the correct reads. Now when you have contributed as much as you have, with not just many posts, but some very large and detailed posts, I do not believe you could just be playing this poorly. I feel the reason you are playing "poorly" is deliberate. I feel it's a pretty good strat, you've recieved very little suspicion cast upon you, but for the most part lynches have gone your way.

Even Crackle was someone you pushed decently hard, and we have no reason to believe scum knew he was scum. Therefore questioning him fully and trying to make him appear in a bad light seemed to be in scums favour.

Also one thing I really dislike about the whole "Tell me your reads" thing. It gives scum a lot of information on where they stand as a group, and lets them know who, in general, has good reputation with town. This doesn't just let them know how they're individually doing, but also gives them a lot of information to use on NKs, as killing people that are "most likely to be town" is a good way to keep day phases under scum control.

[Kryllian]

Dupti claimed Doc

Look I'm dumb ok. I even had to read your comment 3 times before I realized my mistake. i'm excited because I think I found a scum slip. Doc....Cop...They both have a "C" and an "O" in them... I was focused making sure I wrote up my Uggor analysis correctly.