Now I know why D3 influences WoW so much.

[nathrizarri]

Recently cameback to the D3 and hell yeah I don't even bother logging to WoW now.

Strong visuals/sounds
Fast paced gameplay
Simple class mechanics
Challenging enemies
Powerful set bonuses/milestones
Multiple builds, with each pros and cons
Having to build your own gameplay with what you have
Big ballz group content with greater Rifts

I never thought I would enjoy grinding, but yeah those core items are so strong that when you have them, feeling the impact of slashing through stuff. I went for Impale DH and got 6set, Impale/Fan of Knives daggers and an ancient super duber quiver that I haven't seen in builds.

Already have my Multishot/RoV weapons, multiple set items and cannot wait to build/swap when I such ballz on a massive AoE.

Boy bosses melt down with this impale..

I hope WoW will take more from D3.

[-Gr-]

I don't get why people get so upset about it. I mean they own D3. Why not take some successful points from the game and incorporate them into wow? Oh yeah, people fear and loath change.

[Deleted]

Because Jay fucking Wilson is in WoW team now, along with other major influences from Diablo, such as Yang.

[Coldkil]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

[Deleted]

Because Jay fucking Wilson is in WoW team now, along with other major influences from Diablo, such as Yang.

They take good things from d3 and put into wow. Not the stuff that got put in under jay

[Boathouse]

They take good things from d3 and put into wow. Not the stuff that got put in under jay

Let's not take all credit away from Jay, as easy as that is to do.

He did help create the ground floor including the combat engine which is undoubtably the best one the ARPG genre has ever had. Sure most of what he did to the game was terrible, but he did do some great stuff as well.

[Deleted]

Let's not take all credit away from Jay, as easy as that is to do.

He did help create the ground floor including the combat engine which is undoubtably the best one the ARPG genre has ever had. Sure most of what he did to the game was terrible, but he did do some great stuff as well.

True. It's just that he has become a symbol of how bad D3 was at release

[Kokolums]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

Paragon is a bad idea because it results in rewards that need to be very small and thus unrewarding.

I prefer my leveling system:

1. start a level 1
2. levels come fairly quickly (so it feels rewarding)
3. When you reach max level, you can opt to try an epic quest (that is very challenging) and tuned so that people can fail.
4. If you succeed in your attempt, you get a choice of 1 of a number of special skills, spells, bonuses, and perks. You also get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.
5. If you fail, you get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.

You must level up thru the campaign to be eligible for an attempt. The goal here is to actually make you PLAY the game for rewards. The rewards can also be big.

I would also entertain the idea of making leveling its own separate "game mode". Like, you start out at max level, but can throw a switch and you are level 1 and can work on your leveling progression to 20, then throw the switch again and go back to max level and work on your grifts or something. Then a few days later throw the switch again and you are back to level 20 and can continue leveling. So it would be a second game mode that you can opt for alongside the bounties / rifts / grifts. It would add depth to the game.

Paragon, on the other hand, isn't very rewarding imo. Unfortunately, Blizzard has ruined or wasted several game designs in many of its franchises because they value accessibility over fun. Vehicle combat in World of Warcraft has lots of potential but it will never be realized because Blizzard insists on a design where everyone has easy access to a vehicle, which mandates that vehicles do little damage and are easy to destroy, so vehicles wind up feeling very unrewarding. Blizzard insists that paragon be accessible, so levels are easy and the rewards are small, so it feels unrewarding.

[Coldkil]

4. If you succeed in your attempt, you get a choice of 1 of a number of special skills, spells, bonuses, and perks. You also get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.
5. If you fail, you get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.

This way you will be sure not a lot of people would even try that. Look at HC, which is fun but actually only few people bother with it. Not counting the amount of whine/rage/whatever if some bug/lag/anything not related to personal gameplay makes you fail.

Also, what is left for players which don't choose to follow this path?

[Deleted]

This way you will be sure not a lot of people would even try that. Look at HC, which is fun but actually only few people bother with it. Not counting the amount of whine/rage/whatever if some bug/lag/anything not related to personal gameplay makes you fail.

Also, what is left for players which don't choose to follow this path?

I like my HC games clean thank you. There are leechers sure, but they are VERY VERY easily spotted, they just stand around and leech, in HC they die from following in shitty gear so they get kicked or we pull shitload of stuff on them and kick them if they don't die/leave. Last time i tried playing SC i tried to get boosted and guy claiming that can boost me died more times than my lvl 0 with no gear char. I mean come on, if this is SC i don't care one bit for that. Let noobs stay in their easy mode and leave us alone, thank you.

BTW I hate so much that blizzard require players to lvl 70 HC, they just spam our boost channels and then annoy us in our games.

[Boathouse]

This way you will be sure not a lot of people would even try that. Look at HC, which is fun but actually only few people bother with it. Not counting the amount of whine/rage/whatever if some bug/lag/anything not related to personal gameplay makes you fail.

Also, what is left for players which don't choose to follow this path?

Which is a strange thing that would be good for a different topic. How does Path of Exile manage to have more people on Hardcore than Standard when Diablo is the exact opposite? I think that trading is probably a big factor in that personally.

D3 did a lot of things right after Reaper of Souls, it's not surprising they're using those ideas elsewhere

[Tjaeden]

People also forget that They are all owned by the people who own Dungeons & Dragons, Magic, and Pokemon (the lead designer of the Pokemon games designed the pet battle system in WoW first.)

I tried to make a list of influences, it would look more like a huge venn diagram/web, actually.

What's amazing to me, is this: WoW is going to be 12 years old.
All of the people who have ever worked on it, made games with amazing design choices (some didn't work, but we learn from that *cough* RMAH *cough*)
Now, there is an ever branching tree that RE-influences WoW, D3 Grifts & Adventure Mode in Legion being one of the largest aspects.

But, if you haven't ever played tabletop D&D 5E, or Magic/Hearthstone lately, you can see this influence ALL over.

The root of the tree? It's not a single game, but rather an idea.

Make games that are fun to play. D&D and Magic have been around for decades. Diablo defined adventure games on PC. WoW defined MMO's. I would even argue, that even now, Heroes is defining MOBA's.

Blizzard (and their games) are not perfect, but damn, are they fun to play!

- - - Updated - - -

How does Path of Exile manage to have more people on Hardcore than Standard when Diablo is the exact opposite?

I was just mentioning this, and wasn't even counting all the designers/games that branched off from Blizzard. A few of the developers of PoE were involved with D2 (it was heavily rumored that early PoE builds were D3 test builds before being scrapped - don't quote me on that).

Path of Exiles is so good. Games that make us wish we had more time to play them are gems, too.

[Coldkil]

I like my HC games clean thank you. There are leechers sure, but they are VERY VERY easily spotted, they just stand around and leech, in HC they die from following in shitty gear so they get kicked or we pull shitload of stuff on them and kick them if they don't die/leave. Last time i tried playing SC i tried to get boosted and guy claiming that can boost me died more times than my lvl 0 with no gear char. I mean come on, if this is SC i don't care one bit for that. Let noobs stay in their easy mode and leave us alone, thank you.

BTW I hate so much that blizzard require players to lvl 70 HC, they just spam our boost channels and then annoy us in our games.

Because now playing HC is the real deal and shows "skillz".

Anyway my point was just to use HC as a comparison with the ideas proposed - not many people want to suffer from a gear/level reset, at least in D3. I'm not saying that HC is worse/bad/crap/whatever. Just that it's not played as main mode by the majority of D3 playerbase.

BTW, i level my 70 HC char by myslef as i hate aswell people asking for a lvl 70 boost all the time. ffs it's not like it's difficult or takes that huge amount of time.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is a strange thing that would be good for a different topic. How does Path of Exile manage to have more people on Hardcore than Standard when Diablo is the exact opposite? I think that trading is probably a big factor in that personally.

D3 did a lot of things right after Reaper of Souls, it's not surprising they're using those ideas elsewhere

Linked to ablove, also this. I don't really know why, and imho it's not tied to trading since death in HC means also losing currencies so it's not like trading is extremely favorited, plus trading in PoE it's not that cheap as getting on a fresh lvl 1 and buy back all the needed gear.

Simply different playerbases i think.

[The One Percent]

All I know is adventure mode copycat is 10000000% better than more Farmville Facebook bullshit "content"

[Deleted]

Because now playing HC is the real deal and shows "skillz".

Anyway my point was just to use HC as a comparison with the ideas proposed - not many people want to suffer from a gear/level reset, at least in D3. I'm not saying that HC is worse/bad/crap/whatever. Just that it's not played as main mode by the majority of D3 playerbase.

BTW, i level my 70 HC char by myslef as i hate aswell people asking for a lvl 70 boost all the time. ffs it's not like it's difficult or takes that huge amount of time.

You think HC players don't possess much higher skill? I saw how much general players in SC die and suck and have 0 idea how to gear up their characters. I've literally seen complete noob in white gear at lvl 30-40 in public game in SC because he didn't even know that you can equip gear. You think you'll get to see that kind of noobery in HC? Nope, you do something wrong you die. Quite good noob filter if you ask me.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

While true the bolded can be said about WoW as well tho.

[nathrizarri]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

Well it is a game. Expecting a game to provide fast pace content for a long time, how realistic do you think it is? Burning out everything in short time is a problem, either player can deal with it by self gating and spreading the content over time or game can do it for player. However one thing I noticed with with D3 is how ridicilously fast the game is when player chooses to do it with group. Stuff dies within miliseconds.

Now I only do solo content as much as I can and all feels well balanced.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Recently cameback to the D3 and hell yeah I don't even bother logging to WoW now.

Strong visuals/sounds
Fast paced gameplay
Simple class mechanics
Challenging enemies
Powerful set bonuses/milestones
Multiple builds, with each pros and cons
Having to build your own gameplay with what you have
Big ballz group content with greater Rifts

I never thought I would enjoy grinding, but yeah those core items are so strong that when you have them, feeling the impact of slashing through stuff. I went for Impale DH and got 6set, Impale/Fan of Knives daggers and an ancient super duber quiver that I haven't seen in builds.

Already have my Multishot/RoV weapons, multiple set items and cannot wait to build/swap when I such ballz on a massive AoE.

Boy bosses melt down with this impale..

I hope WoW will take more from D3.

Challenging enemies kappa.

[l33t]

Yeah the biggest problem is WoW does not take the main, biggest and most needed thing AKA freedom to do things when you want and as much as you want.

While in Diablo and any other ARPG game I can run content as much as I want, in WoW I have artificial gating everywhere. Got your 4k valor this week? So sad too bad, no mythic dungeons for you on this week anymore. Killed a boss in a raid? No reason to kill him again on this week. Got your 10 arena wins this week? Well son, if you want arena matches, come back in a week. That fucking caps and artificial limitations are idiotic, no wonders people cancel subs in droves.

[Coldkil]

You think HC players don't possess much higher skill? I saw how much general players in SC die and suck and have 0 idea how to gear up their characters. I've literally seen complete noob in white gear at lvl 30-40 in public game in SC because he didn't even know that you can equip gear. You think you'll get to see that kind of noobery in HC? Nope, you do something wrong you die. Quite good noob filter if you ask me.

No they don't.

I agree that a lot of people just go into HC "cakewalk mode" and die for the most inane stuff. It doesn't mean that HC are more skilled - just that non skilled players simply cannot play HC since it's designed that way. Doesn't mean that SC players are baseline worse, but only that most if not all bad players are on SC.

Pick a top notch HC player and a same level SC player and the skill is on par between the two. In actually challenging content (high GR) everything will oneshot you if not dealt with it properly and it doesn't have anything to do with the game mode. In SC you fail the GR, in HC you lose the char (and fail the GR). HC is just more punishing for your fails, but its not tied to the game difficulty.