[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Deleted]

What is animation cancel ?

[Sangomah]

What is animation cancel ?

IT means you stop the animation before it completes. In this case vengeful retreat by double jumping.

[Baelroc]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t#type=summary
Nerf incoming

Rage of the Illidari hit for 2 mil. Nice. Too bad 2 of our "gold node" artifact traits are 1) AoE and will probably be balanced around such and 2) Can be completely wasted with a silly tank or bad RNG

[Mefistophelis]

I saw Vanyali's Fel Rush animation cancel video. That seems a bit too good to be left untouched, but monks can still cancel or shorten roll/torpedo.
Also I am happy that crit is strong. I don't want Havoc to become another haste whore, spamming like crazy, or hopefully there will be a talent combo that values crit over haste

[Sarkol]

I did it this test to sim what might happen in later gear levels. Obviously an incomplete sim, as haste and mastery aren't similarly inflated, but it illuminates the huge issue with crit that DHs have NOW rather than doing so half-way through an expansion, in a way that makes it harder to dismiss than "lol, just spreadsheet" - no, we have logs of a guy that just spammed CS and Annihilation and nothing else because of his crit levels. That's insane, and what I've been saying on the forums for a while now, but there's logs backing it up this time.

Just figured that was already established. Blizzard must know about it by now.

[Vanyali]

Just figured that was already established. Blizzard must know about it by now.

They might "know", but htey haven't seen or changed it. Easier to push for change when you have more proof than "in the future maybeeee..."

[Baelroc]

I saw Vanyali's Fel Rush animation cancel video. That seems a bit too good to be left untouched, but monks can still cancel or shorten roll/torpedo.
Also I am happy that crit is strong. I don't want Havoc to become another haste whore, spamming like crazy, or hopefully there will be a talent combo that values crit over haste

Crit, in my opinion, is even less fun because of its RNG nature (coming from someone who played both MM and Fire this last expansion).

Honestly I would love for our Mastery to be better. Mastery can be such a fun stat and alot of my classes that value mastery over all else are the most fun to play, again, in my opinion. Since the pure essence of Mastery is supposed to be the stat that makes you better at what your class is about.

[wordup]

I did it this test to sim what might happen in later gear levels. Obviously an incomplete sim, as haste and mastery aren't similarly inflated, but it illuminates the huge issue with crit that DHs have NOW rather than doing so half-way through an expansion, in a way that makes it harder to dismiss than "lol, just spreadsheet" - no, we have logs of a guy that just spammed CS and Annihilation and nothing else because of his crit levels. That's insane, and what I've been saying on the forums for a while now, but there's logs backing it up this time.

In honesty anyone dismissing it as just "lol spreadsheet" weren't giving particularly good alternatives for modelling though, so were pretty easy to just disregard :P

[Vanyali]

In honesty anyone dismissing it as just "lol spreadsheet" weren't giving particularly good alternatives for modelling though, so were pretty easy to just disregard :P

i'm talking blizz devs themselves Not that I feel like they /lol at spreadsheets, but it demonstrates very starkly the crit problem in a way that's not so easy to shrug off as "won't get there".

[Mefistophelis]

How does the character critical percentage curve look? I mean how does the % scale with ilvl.

[Ilir]

is the momentum build the best ? (I think it's the one with VR and FR) I hope not. I hate the concept of it.

[Vanyali]

Yes.

The burst with demonic allows you to pull off some truly amazing damage where it matters the most.

[Ilir]

Oh

Thanks =)

[Saycheese]

I think blizzard needs to make DA and demonic baseline due to their interaction with the artifact. If they did that the class would be in a very good place. And doesn't vengeance already have a similar mechanic with lesser soul fragments turning them into their meta forms for a few seconds? I see no reason why something similar couldn't be made baseline for havoc.

[Soulfròst]

I think blizzard needs to make DA and demonic baseline due to their interaction with the artifact. If they did that the class would be in a very good place. And doesn't vengeance already have a similar mechanic with lesser soul fragments turning them into their meta forms for a few seconds? I see no reason why something similar couldn't be made baseline for havoc.

Completely agree.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing to mention though is that internally Blizzard is ahead of whatever current alpha build by 2-3 builds. So they may have already addressed the change in one of those builds, and just haven't posted about it yet. /shrug $0.02

[Vanyali]

Demonic being baseline would be the most broken thing ever.


DA throwing frags would be okay, but the fury part should remain a talent.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Demonic being baseline would be the most broken thing ever.


DA throwing frags would be okay, but the fury cost should remain a talent.

That's something i could get behind. Baseline Chaos Strikes have a chance to generate soul fragments, DA then gives shattered souls the ability to generate fury (or just ones generated by Chaos Strikes because reasons).

It does seem a bit redundant to have 2 talents that give a short burst of increased damage. Granted, the difference is that one increases all damage while the other increases BD/CS only. @wordup had a thing on the official alpha thread about Momentum instead increase the damage of the next 3 abilities or something along those lines. That'd shake it up a bit, and still let you have the movement based gameplay.

[Baelroc]

Demonic being baseline would be the most broken thing ever.


DA throwing frags would be okay, but the fury part should remain a talent.

Of course in its current implementation, Demonic being baseline would be broken. But the class could absolutely be balanced around it being baseline and not a talent. I like this idea and believe it would give an added layer to the class.

[Vanyali]

Of course in its current implementation, Demonic being baseline would be broken. But the class could absolutely be balanced around it being baseline and not a talent. I like this idea and believe it would give an added layer to the class.

It'd be balanced to be either a visual or our Meta CD itself nerfed into the ground.

Mostly because of interaction with chaos blades and whatever would replace demonic in the final tier with a meta form that was going up about every 45s.

[Baelroc]

You could have Chaos Blades and Demonic before when they were not on the same tier and I think we were far from broken.