No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[wing5wong]

SThere are batter ways in getting a pathfinder type of achievement. As Blizzard suggested in the past: a longer epic questline.... but that would require more effort than slapping on a few reputation grinds here and there.

True. Wouldnt have a problem with it. preferably unlocked after completing zones or all zones

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When they slap flight on as an afterthought at the end of an expansion, it means that no content was made for it. In all previous expansions, flight at max level had some sort of use beyond travel. It was used to gate the entrances to raids and dungeons, for dailies and reps, as incentives for finishing all sorts of achievements, as an aid to WPvP(see TBC world pvp objectives), as a high end mat gate, it allowed highly prized mounts like the TLPD and Aeonaxx and also made floating islands, flying war ships and even a flying city be a frigging awesome thing. ("But Dal in Legion is flying!!" Yes but until I can actually fly there myself, if is just a stand alone instance that I die if I fall off. I can't get there physically myself, ports and flight paths the only way.)

All good reasons to include flight options as mid game content, and they definitely need to pick the point it is coming in (or not, *snicker*).

Again my opinion is that flying should not just be handed out, and require some effort to obtain, whether it be exploring the map, doing all the quests, or both. Select few seem to take great offence to that train of thought.

/shrug

[CheeseSandwich]

All good reasons to include flight options as mid game content, and they definitely need to pick the point it is coming in (or not, *snicker*).

Again my opinion is that flying should not just be handed out, and require some effort to obtain, whether it be exploring the map, doing all the quests, or both. Select few seem to take great offence to that train of thought.

/shrug

Nah, it's just that it seemed you were implying people who want flight just want to skip content and make the world obsolete, where the opposite is the truth. As I said, 95% of pro fliers in this thread want a better game for all. When they don't include flight, when there is no testing of it, no objectives or dailies or reps using it on the alpha right now, it feels like they are just gonna slap it on as an afterthought again. Which is a loss to everyone, as we all miss out on that aspect of the game that they were able to design for before, but now can't because "reasons".

[Mafic]

Again my opinion is that flying should not just be handed out, and require some effort to obtain, whether it be exploring the map, doing all the quests, or both. Select few seem to take great offence to that train of thought.

/shrug

At this point you are trolling because flying has never been handed out freely in the history of the game.

[The Flavour Cat]

I'm fine with no flying in the leveling phase of an expansion. I think flying destroys your gaming world for leveling. Once you've explored a zone and it literally becomes a place you must merely traverse to get to a given location of interest, then make it "fly over country." I liked that it was an achievement in WoD to attain Draenor flying, but I didn't like the actual achievement requirements. I would have preferred a long quest chain with difficult single-player Scenarios rather than mindless apexis grinds and pay walls... something like the Green Fire quest for warlocks in MoP.

There wasn't a pay wall behind Draenor Pathfinder, just quite some time invested into it. I also agree that I prefer this method, and I want them to be clear on adding the flying in sooner rather than later, so 7.1 instead of the next-tiered patch.

[CheeseSandwich]

At this point you are trolling because flying has never been handed out freely in the history of the game.

Nah, there is a difference between a gold paywall and an exploration/loremaster/whatever else wall. I think generally people are fine with the earning it over just paying for it model, it's just the lack of any obvious method for unlocking it going forward is troubling for people who saw this same thing happen with WoD.

I did get kinda a nonanswer form Blizzcs on twitter....

Me : "@BlizzardCS any hint on what #Legion pathfinder will involve,and when it will be completable yet?Plan to try remove it again? Be upfront!"

Blizzcs : "I'm sorry, Phil, CS wouldn't have any information on the upcoming expansion. Keep an eye on the site/forums. ~V"

[Mafic]

Nah, there is a difference between a gold paywall and an exploration/loremaster/whatever else wall. I think generally people are fine with the earning it over just paying for it model, it's just the lack of any obvious method for unlocking it going forward is troubling for people who saw this same thing happen with WoD.
"

You are paying it either way with time. It is the same fundamentally as far as I am concerned because you can use gold to buy rep tokens in WoD.

In the history of the game flying has always, always been earned. Always,

Anyone that says otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.

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I had to trim some parts of your quote but I agree with you.

I think Blizzard shot themselves in the foot a long time ago. And the main reason is they way how their questing system works.

And in their current system I can see why they are so adamant in saying flying breaks their immersion or people circumvent their hard development work with flight (tho lets be honest the same is accomplished with mount and stealth or just running till mobs reset)

Some examples of quests in wow:

1) killing some mobs collecting their pelts,armants, documents
2) killing x amount of mobs with usually killing a named mob stashed away in a certain area after you finish the initial quest.
Which is now better streamlined btw (without needing to run back to the quest giver)
3) collecting x amount of objects (interactable objectives stewed across a certain area like crates, weapon racks etc)

Blizzard and some players are convinced on the idea that flying mounts basically break option 2 and 3 and "avoid the intended way to play the game" if we would have flight.

FF14 (sorry to bring this up) simply countered this by designing these 2 types of quest differently.

For example with option 2 (killing x mobs and kill named mob)
You are asked to kill a named pirate captain, Pack leader beast mob, etc
The quest pretty much is always structured like this: We want this "named mob dead"go kill some pirates(Beasts,etc) in the area and lure the bastard out kill him. Optional(bringing back an item from that mob).

So you can stealth, mount, fly in how much you want but you won't get the quest done until you do what the developer wants you to do.

Same with option 3
You need to go grab 3 crates for example in a stronghold.
The quest objective already warns you that you might need to kill some mobs (eg we need x amount of crates if opposition tries to stop you kill them.)
So again you can stealth, fly and mount and zoom right in and avoid the world mobs but when you interact with the quest objectives, something might spawn. And yes you need to kill it. You can't ignore it (not able to loot another crate till you kill it) or if you try to run and reset the mob the objective wont get checked off (because it only does after you kill the spawn) because that's how the developers intended it.

So instead littering the area with high density of mobs like blizzard usually does in the hopes they can slow you down with unnecessary fights.
FF simply says: want to ignore the world mobs fine, but you're still doing the quest objectives our way.

There are also some quest from type 1 some mount(vehicle) related quest and some simply go gather this (herb, rocks and gods knows what quests) and combinations between them. With the simple gather quests you do have a way to circumvent it by stealth, mount, fly. But the other quests are usually balanced around it so most of the time you still end up wanting to kill the mobs because you need it for another quest anyway.

There's also option 1 and 2 combined in a quest. Eg. npc asks you to kill a mob for the pelt and its meat to eat.
However the mob won't spawn till you lure it out.
you're tasked getting some herbs for the meat, killing the mobs near the herbs for the lure meat then use the meat to spawn the actual mob kill it take the stuff (pelt and meat) and go back.

Instead of having the same quest go grab some herbs and kill this named mob. You move to the the zone where the herbs are and the named mob and you noticed the whole area is so densely packed with additional mobs that aren't relevant to the quest or an earlier quest you already finished. And because you don't need to do anything to spawn the named mob people will try to circumvent it by, training the mobs landing on top of crates and landing on top of the mob they need only to avoid everything else.

Its a pita tho I always loved those areas and quests that you could only unlock if you have flying (Netherwing, shatari skyguard, ogrila etc )

The problem is Blizz has become lazy and they haven't earned the right to be trusted.

[Malackai]

You are paying it either way with time. It is the same fundamentally as far as I am concerned because you can use gold to buy rep tokens in WoD.

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The problem is Blizz has become lazy and they haven't earned the right to be trusted.

I know but I did want to stay at least a little positive and avoid that people woult think i was bashing Blizzard. I have always hoped when flying initially got added in tbc they would do more with it in combination with questing in general but they completely missed the bat with it in the last 3-4 explanations. only wrath really had zones with flying in mind it just missed flying actually complementing questing.

[Mafic]

I know but I did want to stay at least a little positive and avoid that people woult think i was bashing Blizzard. I have always hoped when flying initially got added in tbc they would do more with it in combination with questing in general but they completely missed the bat with it in the last 3-4 explanations. only wrath really had zones with flying in mind it just missed flying actually complementing questing.

Yeah that is what made WotLK so epic in that flying to a flying quest hub over Icecrown truly immersed you in the world or flying towards the tower in the middle of dragonblight as an aerial battle with dragons raged on. Flying definitely was integrated in the leveling and endgame experience of WotLK (eg Stormpeaks).

[CheeseSandwich]

I know but I did want to stay at least a little positive and avoid that people woult think i was bashing Blizzard. I have always hoped when flying initially got added in tbc they would do more with it in combination with questing in general but they completely missed the bat with it in the last 3-4 explanations. only wrath really had zones with flying in mind it just missed flying actually complementing questing.

Flight in Wrath was available at 78. You needed it to complete storm peaks and icecrown. Flight was at least involved in all expansion but WoD, where it was an after thought. MoP had cloud serpents and the whole reason for no flight on IoT, as well as the whole warbringers and other rares encouraging flying between them, as well as having to fly to IoG and TI.
Cata had deepholm which was 100% designed with flight in mind, a fully 3d zone, a lot of people fave from that expac, and all of the 1st tier raids being only accessible by flight, and the camel figurine, which would of been near impossible without flight,*edit* as well as redesigning the whole of old world azeroth to allow flight*.
Point is, Blizz is totally capable of designing content for the world while thinking of flight, it just seems it is easier not too, which is what is sticking in people's craws.

[Baconeggcheese]

https://youtu.be/4PGVJi1EZao

There u go guys, get on it. It's like they made a game specifically for you guys.

[Deleted]

https://youtu.be/4PGVJi1EZao

There u go guys, get on it. It's like they made a game specifically for you guys.

"If you dont like WoW without flying, go for another game."

The people like WoW, but they also like flying.

But hey.. i neither have the power nor wisdom to discuss with someone who thinks only his arguments are reasonable and everyone with another opinion is a "foe".

[Hammerfest]

There wasn't a pay wall behind Draenor Pathfinder, just quite some time invested into it.

Yeah, I should have said "I would have preferred a long quest chain with difficult single-player Scenarios rather than mindless apexis grinds OR pay walls." Pay walls (in game gold type) was used in previous expansions.

[CheeseSandwich]

Avianna's Feather is back!! or something....

[segara82]

Another feather? Oh boy, they just troll us now, don't they.

[wing5wong]

At this point you are trolling because flying has never been handed out freely in the history of the game.

Are you looking for flaws in every paragraph or what.
I mean outside of a small gold cost (the equivelant of free).
Gating behind content is a far better choice

*edit, its early, @CheeseSandwhich already covered the point well

[The Flavour Cat]

Yeah, I should have said "I would have preferred a long quest chain with difficult single-player Scenarios rather than mindless apexis grinds OR pay walls." Pay walls (in game gold type) was used in previous expansions.

Oh, mind blanked for a second there!

[Deleted]

I have to admit.. this topic upsets me beyond believe. I cant understand blizzard isnt just able to actually overcome their stubborn stance on flying and tell the people it was a complete desaster to try to remove it..

Why cant they just say

"Sorry, guys, here, have flying at level 110 from start! And have fun with it!"..

Only for some extra minutes played? Only for their "player retention calculation"?

It's so sad it hurts..

[Connll]

I have to admit.. this topic upsets me beyond believe. I cant understand blizzard isnt just able to actually overcome their stubborn stance on flying and tell the people it was a complete desaster to try to remove it..

Why cant they just say

"Sorry, guys, here, have flying at level 110 from start! And have fun with it!"..

Only for some extra minutes played? Only for their "player retention calculation"?

It's so sad it hurts..

It is as if they are already counting with the failure and working on means to stem subs loss (via enabling flight so some players come back) instead of, you know, making quality content so those players don´t leave in the first place.

Bizarre.

[Dhrizzle]

They did admit trying to remove flight was a mistake, that's why we have the Pathfinder achievement. They also think open world content is better without flight which is why the achievement is coming later in the expansion.

[Mafic]

They did admit trying to remove flight was a mistake, that's why we have the Pathfinder achievement. They also think open world content is better without flight which is why the achievement is coming later in the expansion.

Yeah except for the fact they said you can start to work on the achievement at launch and there is no sign of it.