Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Lolsteak]

Fix'd that for you.

No, These were world first guilds with more than enough people to fill the roster

[Santoryu]

Not trying to be a dick here but did you kill Mythic Archimonde ? If not how can you claim the game is piss easy if you have not cleared the hardest content ? By any reasonable metric the game is much harder now than it was in vanilla. Most bosses had 1 or 2 mechanic and required very little coordination except for a select few.

This argument again.

What he wanted to say was that the game was challenging across the board, meaning that anyone, even those who didn't have time to raid, had the abilitiy to experience difficult quest and 5 man content, which also gave a feeling of accomplishment.

You saying that he shouldn't complain because he hasn't killed mythic archimonde is absurd.

[Pann]

Did they not effect retail? When has content dropped off the table since? We had a ton in mop but while they worked on all of that and wod during it how was content for wod? Maybe one could argue and I have heard the rumblings that maybe all of that did. Prove that it didn't but l do know wod had the least content ever supposidly with a bigger staff.
Because all those things came about during mop and while they were supposidly working on wod. With the longest tier in soo, 14 months, thrown in too.

Blizzard have proved that they are able to develop, run and maintain multiple titles without affecting WoW. I don't see how D3 or SC2, two of their bigger titles in terms of development, would have any impact on the (lack of) content in WoD what with being developed years before an' all. You supported the claim that legacy servers would effect retail you prove that instead of expecting others to disprove you.

[Sunnydee]

If you compare classic to present, there's a distinct difference in creature powerlevel. It was more time consuming because:
1. You couldn't AoE grind mobs down, with cooldowns you might go wild and pull 3 mobs.
2. Creatures would hit you harder.
3. You would need to use consumables.

And all of these things sounds like time i could put in playing at maxlvl with friends doing real shit instead of drinking water i got from a friendly mage while questing in Arathi Highlands.

Just sayin

[shadowmatrix]

Raiding more difficult now? The progression races lasted far longer in Vanilla.

Onyxia progression - 69 days
Ragnaros progression - 154 days
Nefarian progression - 77 days
C'thun progression - 133 days
Kel'Thuzad progression - 90 days

Nowadays? It's what a week?

How many attempts did those kills take not counting bugs? What types of tools did they have helping to help them during those kills? Your example just references time, not the actual difficulties of the raids.

People's thoughts on vanilla WOW:
2004 - God this game is so easy. It's for scrubs who are afraid of hard games.
2016 - Vanilla WOW was when the game was truly hard, not like this bull crap today.

People's thoughts on Wrath of the Lich King:
2008 - This is the worst expansion ever, the death of the game, and the game will never survive.
2016 - Wrath was the pinnacle of the game and it will never reach that height again.

After looking back through all the things that the playerbase has said and asked for over the last decade or so I can see why they don't trust us. I don't trust us either. We love to ask for things then claim we didn't. We complain stuff then when changes are made we argue that is was better the old way.

[Gib Lover]

How many attempts did those kills take not counting bugs? What types of tools did they have helping to help them during those kills? Your example just references time, not the actual difficulties of the raids.

People's thoughts on vanilla WOW:
2004 - God this game is so easy. It's for scrubs who are afraid of hard games.
2016 - Vanilla WOW was when the game was truly hard, not like this bull crap today.

People's thoughts on Wrath of the Lich King:
2008 - This is the worst expansion ever, the death of the game, and the game will never survive.
2016 - Wrath was the pinnacle of the game and it will never reach that height again.

After looking back through all the things that the playerbase has said and asked for over the last decade or so I can see why they don't trust us. I don't trust us either. We love to ask for things then claim we didn't. We complain stuff then when changes are made we argue that is was better the old way.

The Vanilla one isn't really an argument.
People in Vanilla saying the game was easy in comparison to other games aren't in contrast to people in 2016 saying Vanilla WoW was when the game truly felt hard. They are talking about WoW in relation to different things: in 2004 other games, in 2016 to itself.

- - - Updated - - -

That is since the thread when did they actually get the letter? Probably a few days before that too. Why are you dickering over a few days? You seem mad to me. You are making this a big deal.

Please stop bullying me over the length of a week.

[AeneasBK]

What mistake he said almost a month and it has been more than two weeks right? So close to almost a month right? Your the one dickering over a few days

EDIT: D'oh did just see its the 22nd now. So its 16 days of 30. So woo, lets make that what, 54%.

Same principle Not many areas will accept 54% as close to 100%

While we're dickering.

[Bapestar]

Rofl.

How was pvp hard? Time investment =! difficulty
How wasleveling hard? Time investment =! difficulty
Farming was hard? Professions were hard? Raiding was hard? How?

Nothing in WoW was ever challenging. You're delusional if you thought any aspect of this game pre-endgame was hard.

Actually what made it hard was broken class mechanics, not only were things time consuming, there was some challenge. Leveling was hard especially for classes that couldn't heal. The Professions weren't hard imo, but they at least had some complexity. But you are correct, none of this including raiding was that challenging, if you were a seasoned gamer. I honestly think you guys just don't remember how it was, exactly.

[Lolsteak]

How many attempts did those kills take not counting bugs?

Are you trying to imply they only did one or two attempts A DAY? Or even that encounters nowadays don't have bugs? absurd

What types of tools did they have helping to help them during those kills?

Far less than what is available today, Now you can already have boss mods fully updated when a raid is launched to give you exact timers on all the abilities, Hell even the dungeon journal gives you a complete rundown on the abilities and phases

Your example just references time, not the actual difficulties of the raids.

These guilds were arguably more hardcore than they are today, An example would be the end game guilds running 40 man raids farming materials for the war effort with DKP checks to ensure people login.

World first nowdays are what 300 tries or so? Even if you say Ascent US only tried Ragnaros a handful of times a day (Which i highly doubt it was that little) that's 770 tries.

Kungen has also been going over past screenshots and stories on stream and went into some detail about Nihilum's world first C'thun kill, Essentially the first incarnation of C'thun was so hard they thought it was unbeatable, After the nerf they defeated him on their second try (113 days in all).

[Fokstar]

A lot of people think time consuming and hard are the same thing. Hell, I made this argument a couple weeks ago and the same irrational babies cried up a tsunami.

I don't think that vanilla is overall hard, I think that vanilla has more multiplayer interaction, and is designed around having to interact and cooperate with other players in order to succeed.
Time consuming is important for an mmo, otherwise people have nothing to do for a year and half, as content is far and between nowdays in WoW.
I think that WoW is no longer the game that Blizzard mostly focuses on.

[Blackcoffin]

And all of these things sounds like time i could put in playing at maxlvl with friends doing real shit instead of drinking water i got from a friendly mage while questing in Arathi Highlands.

Just sayin

Seems like you're moving the goalpost with every point being made. Stop being argumentative then.

[Gib Lover]

EDIT: D'oh did just see its the 22nd now. So its 16 days of 30. So woo, lets make that what, 54%.

Same principle Not many areas will accept 54% as close to 100%

While we're dickering.

This guy gets it!

[AeneasBK]

And all of these things sounds like time i could put in playing at maxlvl with friends doing real shit instead of drinking water i got from a friendly mage while questing in Arathi Highlands.

Just sayin

And it's absolutely a valid point. I often question the time I "waste" levelling at the moment, for example, I'm soloing Gnomeregan to get AH blues and enchanting mats to sell to raise gold for my mount... It's absolutely objectively quicker for me to continue questing to max level as the rate you make gold increases exponentially as you level...

But I guess as long as I'm having fun I don't worry too much about hitting 60 ASAP. But certainly, I worry that I'm "wasting" my time if I'm not actively pushing towards the next DING. End game is very alluring

[Fokstar]

So because we can't stop every criminal activity we should never try to stop any ? Again - their game, their vision, nothing happened to the operators of the server. On what earth it's considered a dick move to close something amicably down you don't want to happen with your product is beyond me but well being reasonable isn't exactly the strong suit of those private server fanatics anyways.

You are exaggerating. Criminal activity... Why not compare it to rape while you are at it.
This isn't done for personal gain to cheat them out of their profits.
Don't really need to go into detail about it, you know what I am talking about, been said a billion times before.

[Eapoe]

Why do you think it upsets me? First you claim that legacy servers would take away from retail, although there is no evidence to support this, and now you're claiming that it okay to spend money that has zero benefit to us because it is THEIR money. Bizarre.

Probably because of the tone of your post it's safe to assume you are upset, also as posted, whether it does or not, so there's always that. And as I've said on your arguement trying to prove I'm a hypocrite, both of my statements are true. A legacy server will cost money and take time and manpower from retail, and it IS Blizzard's money and they can do with it what they want. I don't see what you're really trying to prove other than you can briefly read a post, not understand what someone is saying, and then try to use it against them while doing nothing but showing ignorance of what's actually being said.

[RickJamesLich]

Again you realize just because an ex-dev is signing it/giving it attention means jack right? They could happily throw the petition in the bin if they want. All they have to do is read it. Also again why is it not going to Tom Chilton whom is the current Game Director of WoW? I'm not saying it isn't getting attention but just because it is does not mean they have to budge or will budge on the stance.

Nobody is under the illusion that legacy servers are a 100% thing brah. The only way blizzard is going to ever change their minds here though is if they realize a huge portion of their fan base want these servers and they are willing to pay for it.

[shimerra]

If you compare classic to present, there's a distinct difference in creature powerlevel. It was more time consuming because:
1. You couldn't AoE grind mobs down, with cooldowns you might go wild and pull 3 mobs.
2. Creatures would hit you harder.
3. You would need to use consumables.

I level'd a little bit as pretty much everything in vanilla on one server or other, had lots of friends trying to get me to play on their server and they were all split up in small groups.

1. Partially true, depended on the class. My feral druid was actually pretty decent at being able to handle a few mobs. And in fact I distinctly remember certain classes like mages and warlocks being able to aoe grind in multiple spots. Sure it wasn't always a good idea but it def wasn't always this horrid impossible without cool down idea you seem to think it was especially if you were certain specs/classes. But that goes tieing back into the fact that shit wasn't hard because it was actually hard it was hard because of shoddy class design. And by shoddy class design I don't mean everyone has to be amazing at everything like we've moved more towards now but by the fact that some specs were just objectively dogshit. It wasn't hard, it was slow.


2. Some creatures would. Most didn't. We just killed them slower.
3. The only consumables I ever used were once I looted. And most of the time I used them was because I was trying to solo group content because after 3 hours of spamming for someone to do it with me no one took the bait and I'd finished all the other quest I could do alone. When I actually found said groups, hardly necessary.

[Toast515]

If you compare classic to present, there's a distinct difference in creature powerlevel. It was more time consuming because:
1. You couldn't AoE grind mobs down, with cooldowns you might go wild and pull 3 mobs.

You never experienced the joy of frost mage AoE grinding? Gather group, cone of cold, frost nova, blink, blizzard, repeat.

[Blackcoffin]

I level'd a little bit as pretty much everything in vanilla on one server or other, had lots of friends trying to get me to play on their server and they were all split up in small groups.

1. Partially true, depended on the class. My feral druid was actually pretty decent at being able to handle a few mobs. And in fact I distinctly remember certain classes like mages and warlocks being able to aoe grind in multiple spots. Sure it wasn't always a good idea but it def wasn't always this horrid impossible without cool down idea you seem to think it was especially if you were certain specs/classes. But that goes tieing back into the fact that shit wasn't hard because it was actually hard it was hard because of shoddy class design. And by shoddy class design I don't mean everyone has to be amazing at everything like we've moved more towards now but by the fact that some specs were just objectively dogshit. It wasn't hard, it was slow.


2. Some creatures would. Most didn't. We just killed them slower.
3. The only consumables I ever used were once I looted. And most of the time I used them was because I was trying to solo group content because after 3 hours of spamming for someone to do it with me no one took the bait and I'd finished all the other quest I could do alone. When I actually found said groups, hardly necessary.

Because 2-3 classes had it easier than others, doesn't make it any less true. A frost nova resist would practically kill you. Even though some classes had better AoE potential than others - does not mean they could "literally" AoE grind without the use of consumables and some map awareness.

- - - Updated - - -

You never experienced the joy of frost mage AoE grinding? Gather group, cone of cold, frost nova, blink, blizzard, repeat.

Now try that with a warrior, rogue, shaman, druid, paladin, warlock or hunter. None of them could aoe grind. And those that did managed to pull 4 creatures would spend the next minute ressing their pet/corpse running/drinking.

[Eliseus]

There's just too much going on for it to end quickly. First was the 200 pages on why it's illegal or not, then about 700 pages of people going back and forth "Legacy servers! Give them, yay!" and "Legacy sucks, go play something else!" with about 100 pages of actual sound comments from both sides.

Actually, no sound arguments on people against it.

A sound argument = "An argument form is valid if and only if whenever the premises are all true, then conclusion is true. An argument is valid if its argument form is valid. For a sound argument, An argument is sound if and only if it is valid and all its premises are true."

The people against legacy servers have not provided this at all. "BUT BLIZZARD SAYS NOT AT THIS TIME 4 MONTHS AGO!" Is not sound.