An honest question to Blizzard fans

[Mentaldemise]

Before this gets insta locked or i get reported again or banned, this is not a troll thread or me starting a flame war, i genuinely wan't to try and understand this.

The past xpac has universally been panned as their worse, massive drops in subs, gutting of the game mechanics, removing a lot of skills and class identities, going into the legion it doesn't look much better with class halls(Garrison 2.0) and the general oversimplified feel of the game, even as someone who has bought every xpac at launch who has been pissed off at the company for a long time, i feel no inclination to buy legion.

So my question is, with overwhelming evidence that the game is in a brutal decline, why do people still go out of their way to defend Blizzard and the current product?

I usually see the usual "You're just bored of the game" or "X people like Y because of Z" but it really seems like there's very little going forward for WoW at the moment but a lot of loyal people to the company(Don't know why you're loyal to a company) Seem to act and speak like absolutely nothings wrong, everythings going as planned and we're somehow wrong? I just want to try and understand this mentality because at the moment the current active wow community reminds me of this picture.

[Roamingstorm]

Well, for starters I know that Blizzard has other products I enjoy, and they aren't without any negatives...The problem I see is that WoW seems to be the only thing people assume Blizzard does, which his hilarious since they won me over years ago with Diablo 2, SC, and WC2.

Diablo 3 had an incredibly rocky launch, and wasn't all that great until the pre-Reaper of Souls patch was out, and so far they've done a great job. I've enjoyed Overwatch, I play Hearthstone, still play SC2, I enjoy HoTS, and from time to time play WC3 or Diablo 2.

I don't sugar coat things, but I do say plenty that WoD was the worse expansion they have done. Raiding was terrific, which thankfully is what I enjoy with the game, and BGs for the most part haven't changed, except the disappointment that is Ashran, but everything else was incredibly underwhelming. And look if Legion ends up being a hot mess, then yeah I'll quit WoW, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying their other games.

The question to counter your question is, why do people still cling to hating something that they know they can't change it. I've been there, done that with Star Wars Galaxies when SOE/Lucas Arts just dropped the ball, which is why I think it's somewhat weird when people consider WoD killing the game if you would have seen what went down with that mess when SOE released the NGE for SWG (Like it was bad, like real bad and anyone who played can attest for me there). After making my few forum posts of anger at SOE and poking fun at John Smedley for his "making the game more Star Warsy" comments, it was just pointless since in the end, they're going to do what they're going to do and if Blizzard crashes and burns, so be it, way it goes.

And I'll add an example, Bungie. I grew up playing Halo. I loved the franchise, and then Destiny dropped. Super disappointed with it and some extent felt a bit betrayed, but stopped playing, and moved on. Didn't go on a crusade to say "Bungie sucks or Destiny is awful" and I didn't crap on people who enjoy it.

[theArcaneBagel]

Because I still enjoy it. That's it. I like the game and the direction it's going because it fits my playstyle. Call me a filthy casual, or a newb (although I've played since late Vanilla), but I still enjoy the game. I don't need to explain why, I just do. I defend Blizzard because, again, I like the way the game is progressing. That's my opinion, and that's all that matters to me.

[Uurdz]

I rarely see people say nothing is wrong with wow. I also rarely see valid criticism of wow. So then someone like myself gets called a fanboy because I wont say that everything that WoD did was the worst ever. I am also optimistic about Legion, and if for some reason I don't like it I'll stop playing, like a have before.

You rarely see valid criticism of WoW? Wut. You can't be serious?

[Derah]

going into the legion it doesn't look much better

And that's where you lost me.

Legion seems to be their best product so far. In almost every angle.

with class halls(Garrison 2.0)

Class Halls are not Garrisons 2.0

The current iteration of it looks A LITTLE like it, but a lot of the worse aspects of it are gone, and we've been assured that the end result is gonna play and feel and be something entirely different than the garrison missions. I do share some of your concerns over the similarities, but I prefer to wait until the game is at least in late-beta before starting to complain that the sky is falling.

While I also share the same mistrust in blizzard's word after they failed to keep what they said over and over in WoD, Watcher made a very compelling argument about that. There's no way they can keep this hidden. This entire system of the Class Halls will be tested extensively in the beta, long before the game goes live. If he says that they don't intend to just copy&paste a system that was so poorly received, and that what they're doing here will be different, I'm willing to at the very least give the benefit of the doubt until we see this system in its entirety on the beta. Surely that's not an unreasonable approach.

What we're seeing right now, is a very incomplete work in progress. Not exactly something that can, or should, be judged as if it was a complete work. You don't judge the academic performance of a child while its still in the womb. At the very least wait until its born.... =/

and the general oversimplified feel of the game

Oversimplified..... that's rich.

With Mythic dungeons that scale in difficulty, and add modifiers that greatly enhance the challenge, and in many cases completely alter the run and feel of the place, with unique class mechanics designed into the dungeons so each class can alter the environment in their own way, creating distinct runs based on group composition, with many classes that had become watered down and stale now getting a MASSIVE amount of new spells, and unique spec-specific talent trees (Whereas before it was 1 tree for the entire class), with several pvp-exclusive spells for each class, designed to alter combat and make PVP feel more different than PVE, with Mythic raid bosses that make even the most brutal vanilla encounters look like a walk in the park............ you talk about oversimplification?

Pfft.

I feel no inclination to buy legion.

hey, if you don't feel any inclination to buy it, suit yourself. That doesn't mean there aren't many many others who are at least interested in trying it out. At the very least, it should provide a couple dozen hours of entertainment for 40 dollars. That's usually enough bang for your bucks when most games these days cost 60.

So my question is, with overwhelming evidence that the game is in a brutal decline, why do people still go out of their way to defend Blizzard and the current product?

Hmmm because I don't give a shit about other people? Seriously, another 3 million players could leave tomorrow. They wont influence me staying or leaving. I stay as long as I have fun. I leave as soon as I stop having fun. I left wow for now because WoD bored me. The content was barebones, the story was stupid, nonsensical and boring, and several other details that just made the game stop being entertaining. So I left. I will come back as soon as the pre-patch hits, because Legion seems amazing so far.

And I will buy it and play it when its released. If I have fun then I'll stay. And if I dont, then as soon as the game becomes boring, I'll leave. Whether or not wow regained 10 million subs, or lost another 5 million is completely irrelevant for me.

Seem to act and speak like absolutely nothings wrong

Nobody is acting like nothing's wrong. Just about everyone agrees that WoD was an absolute garbage. But just because the game had a flop doesn't mean its dead for good. Cataclysm was fucking awful, and yet I still came back for MoP and had a blast, I loved that expansion, and rank it second only to Wrath in terms of enjoyment.

[Deleted]

Before this gets insta locked or i get reported again or banned, this is not a troll thread or me starting a flame war, i genuinely wan't to try and understand this.

The past xpac has universally been panned as their worse, massive drops in subs, gutting of the game mechanics, removing a lot of skills and class identities, going into the legion it doesn't look much better with class halls(Garrison 2.0) and the general oversimplified feel of the game, even as someone who has bought every xpac at launch who has been pissed off at the company for a long time, i feel no inclination to buy legion.

So my question is, with overwhelming evidence that the game is in a brutal decline, why do people still go out of their way to defend Blizzard and the current product?

I usually see the usual "You're just bored of the game" or "X people like Y because of Z" but it really seems like there's very little going forward for WoW at the moment but a lot of loyal people to the company(Don't know why you're loyal to a company) Seem to act and speak like absolutely nothings wrong, everythings going as planned and we're somehow wrong? I just want to try and understand this mentality because at the moment the current active wow community reminds me of this picture.

I picture you looking like your avatar. You are oversimplifying stuff and generalizing aswell. You are also speaking for other people.

Basicly your entire post is invalid and its quite obvious you wont see reason.

Thats why its more then fair of me to ignore your question and point out your flaws instead

[Ifeanychukwu]

Because I still enjoy it. That's it. I like the game and the direction it's going because it fits my playstyle. Call me a filthy casual, or a newb (although I've played since late Vanilla), but I still enjoy the game. I don't need to explain why, I just do. I defend Blizzard because, again, I like the way the game is progressing. That's my opinion, and that's all that matters to me.

Pretty much this. I play the game so long as I enjoy it. I don't need to be a fanboy, I'm not worried xyz or blah blah blah. It's a game, there's no need for all these deep discussions as if we're discussing politics. Do you enjoy the game? Play it then! If you don't, don't play the game. It's really as simple as that. I don't really care enough to get all upset about what Blizzard is doing with their games, they can do whatever they want. If I'm not having fun anymore I'll just move on, just like I have most of this expansion. I'll come back for Legion and maybe I'll play throughout the entire expansion and maybe I won't.

[Toast515]

Because WoW is the only game I can say that I have played faithfully for over 10 years. It gave me an escape when my mother died.

[Mentaldemise]

Because WoW is the only game I can say that I have played continuously for over 10 years. It gave me an escape when my mother died.

Shit man, way to deep for this type of discussion lol.

[Toast515]

Shit man, way to deep for this type of discussion lol.

Lol you asked.

[Uurdz]

100%. See post 6. You can not like something and still act like an adult about it.

Post #6 seems to be about Legion and not current WoW?

Your last sentence doesn't make sense. Are you wanting to infer I lack the ability to act (presume you mean discuss) like an adult when I don't like something?

[Deleted]

I just enjoy large raid boss fights. I tried other games but wow still does it the best. I wouldn't call myself a blizzard fan though outside of hearthstone I play during my lunch breaks I don't really have a interest in their other products.

[Deleted]

this is not a troll thread or me starting a flame war, i genuinely wan't to try and understand this.

[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/04/article-2242722-1657FE04000005DC-339_634x474.jpg[/IG]

[Crimewave]

Because this game even in it's worst condition (hard to deny it, really) still wrecks any competition.
And for raiders it's the only game that provides content that we enjoy although quality of this content diminished to the point, that I started question myself if it's even worth it.

[Pull My Finger]

The past xpac has universally been panned as their worse, massive drops in subs, gutting of the game mechanics, removing a lot of skills and class identities, going into the legion it doesn't look much better with class halls(Garrison 2.0) and the general oversimplified feel of the game, even as someone who has bought every xpac at launch who has been pissed off at the company for a long time, i feel no inclination to buy legion.

Blah blah blahblahblah ... there's your first mistake. You can't seem to imagine that anyone could feel any less dramatic about it that you.

Don't know why you're loyal to a company

Don't know why you're "pissed off at a company". Why are you making a difference here? It's the exact same bullshit spectrum.

So my question is, with overwhelming evidence that the game is in a brutal decline, why do people still go out of their way to defend Blizzard and the current product?

Why do you go out of your way to not only whine about the game and the company, but also anyone who isn't obsessed about it as you? Are you that insecure about your own opinions? It seems to really occupy you.

Even though I'm afraid I'm not really "fan" or "fanboy" enough, I'm still qualified to answer your question. Some people just aren't that overobsessed about it. Perhaps they don't perceive things as dramatically terrible as you do, and even if they perhaps share some of your views on the game, they simply don't have that urge to whine about it like you do.

Your opinion isn't a fact, and it seems that it's something you're very insecure about. That's the gist of it. You can't handle the fact that people around you aren't universally supporting your viewpoint, and in order to validate yourself and not crumble under self-doubt, you need to discredit them ("fanboys").

Which is funny, because you're actually the fanboy. The way you act is when a devotee apostatizes. You're the former fanboy that's been let down - a shock they can't handle.

[Shaetha]

First, let me state that the sub total, while it looks dire, is following a Bell curve. What makes the panic is the anomaly caused by WoD launch. If you look at the graph, The release of WoD causes a clear anomaly in what is, essentially, a fairly normal looking curve. This is the real reason Blizzard isn't worried about the sub numbers, and the panic(and ignorance/self-satisfaction/whatever) is the real reason they stopped releasing sub numbers. It added nothing positive to the community.

Second, removing bloat is something that has to happen in order to continue with new ideas. If no abilities were ever removed, every class would have literally hundreds of different abilities in their spell book. Can you honestly say that having hundreds of redundant or useless abilities that you literally never use is a good thing?

Third, class halls are not garrison 2.0. I don't see how anyone could possibly think they are if they've actually played with them. The problem with garrisons was the isolation and amount of the world they made no longer necessary. Class halls do neither of these things. Yes, you can send minions on missions, but it's extremely trimmed down and the people you can send are not all just random NPCs. For example: You can, as a paladin, recruit the faction Paladin leaders like Lady Liadrin. It seems really awesome to me to have actual clout with the peoples of Azeroth.

Fourth, from what I've played, the classes don't seem oversimplified at all to me. Having more buttons does not make it more complicated. If you have 17 abilities that you use on cooldown it's much simpler and far more messy than having 4-6 abilities you have to use with the right timing. Ex: Prot paladins in WotLK had 5 abilities that required absolutely no thought in using. You could macro them together if you wanted without losing performance. Flash forward to today: Ret paladins have 4 buttons, a secondary resource, and a debuff to manage. It needs to be easy to grasp basics while still being difficult and rewarding to play optimally, which, admittedly, is something Blizzard doesn't always deliver on, but I don't expect perfection.

In conclusion, I have fun playing the game and that's all I really ask from a game. I put in constructive feedback when I feel something can be done better, but I don't just complain about every little thing because it can be, and I've seen, much worse.

[klaghatagh]

Because for all the complaining, WoD wasn't actually THAT bad. It was content-light, yes. And the story was something out of a bad fanfic, but the two things I like most about WoW: raiding and questing? Those were great and epic. There was a good storyline for each zone that culminated in an epic moment (even with Nagrand being the lone misfire: green Jesus got the killing blow again), and BRF and Highmaul had really fun, enjoyable fights. (I quit before HFC came out due to real life issues though I doubt they would have dropped the ball so dramatically between BRF and HFC). Garrisons turned out to be underwhelming and it was disappointing how everything ended up returning to them in one way or another, but I'd call that the only major misstep. Given that Blizz is good from learning from mistakes (see Diablo 3 launch) and have stated, expressly, how they want to correct on the garrison mistake (and that seems to be in evidence), I don't think a healthy sense of optimism is unwarranted.

[Charge me Doctor]

"i don't like this game and wan't to quit but i can't because i hove no will, so i want others to tell me that the game is garbage so i'll have easier time to quit it" thread

[ls-]

You rarely see valid criticism of WoW? Wut. You can't be serious?

Well, we now have this epidemic of bitching for the sake of bitching, it doesn't matter what company does, cuz it's always bad and so on.

[Deleted]

So my question is, with overwhelming evidence that the game is in a brutal decline, why do people still go out of their way to defend Blizzard and the current product?

I think the current product is among the worst products they've ever delivered. Something went wrong somewhere in their testing/QA and by introducing passive gameplay elements like the Garrisons, they've shown considerable ignorance in their own field (since EVE Online tried very similar features 10 years ago and has since then been trying to move away from it).

So having said that - it's still just a videogame. I play it as a hobby couple of nights a week when my raid team gets together. We do the pixel dance and kill some internet dragons. It's been like that since early 90s when I started playing MUDs. Occasionally I take breaks and occasionally I play other games, because who doesn't?

Things change. I've changed considerably as a person since early 90s. Blizzard provides a product and a service and I still find it a good value proposition for my money. My other hobbies are way more expensive. I'm not married to the game and I understand the challenges of delivering entertainment for large masses.

Every other creative industry (musicians, writers and even sports) face these same challenges from "fans" now that the Internet has allowed us to spew uncontrolled continuous feedback.

Before the Internet boom you had to write letters to the editors of papers and magazines and complain about how band X has totally gone mainstream, sold out, their current album is the worst shit ever and they really should be ashamed of themselves... and the next number would have a rebuttal from someone who liked it... now it's all here on the Internet, 24/7.. these shitposts rule our communications, they are the constant noise in the signal. Sometimes it's very hard to even hear the signal from the overwhelming static of the shitposting noise.

It's very interesting that creative arts and entertainment cause these types of arguments, when it's really down to subjective value proposition for each individual.

The "overwhelming evidence" argument is particularly strange, because none of those things (sub decline etc) actually affect your personal enjoyment of the game - they are just external factors that affect the beancounters at Blizzard. They have extremely little to do with the gratification center inside my brain. But I guess some people get strong sense gratification from seeing someone else fail or "fall from the grace".

The question OP has could be poised the other way as well - why do people go out of their way to hate a videogame company when it's just a simple, subjective matter of taste. When there is evidence that the choices others do don't affect you individually at all? When you can simply choose to play something else, if the current value proposition is not suitable for you?

It does not cause uncontrollable rage inside me. It doesn't make me foam from the mouth. It's a game. I play it when it's fun and when it's not.. well.. then I don' play. Some people like Black Metal, others like Justin Bieber. I don't own stock in ATVI, so I don't really have much personal stake in sub counts or how well they do economically.