Mafia 68: The West Wing

[Graeham]

Define "genuine risk"?

As in they're at L-2 or L-1.

So if Val only had a single vote on him I wouldn't have be able to launch an appeal. Not that I'd have needed to in that scenario.

[Reticence]

Ah. So what's your take on yesterday's appeal?

[Danner]

Xanjori makes a decent argument against Dendrek actually. If there are two scumteams (and I am leaning towards this), then Dendrek just sailed up as the #1 candidate as mafia mirror team doctor. That said, these two roles are ever-so-slightly different (Visitor vs Thief), so there may be something more going on here. I just can't tell what.

For comparison:

Character: Wilma Jefferson

Role: Mafia Visitor *modified*

Abilities: Each night you visit one target, taking an item or something personal that tells you something about your target.


Victory Condition: You win when the Mafia are the only remaining members of the town or nothing can stop that from happening.

Character: Cindy Kruger

Role: Mafia Thief

Abilities: Each night you visit one target, taking an item or something personal that tells you something about your target.


Victory Condition: You win when the mafia are the only remaining members of the town or nothing can stop that from happening.

Now, let me bold the next part.
Ultimately, I trust Dendrek.

I want Dendrek to be town. That has not changed. And I also think we ought to have a town doctor in this setup. I believe Dendrek is this person, but his actions this game is the main reason I trust him. He's been out there, when I have been sitting in the corner feeling like a failure (yes, I know). If Dendrek really is scum, then I almost want him to win due to this alone. But the main point is - I don't think he is scum. And if he is, we have already lost, because there is almost no way I will lynch him.

Nonetheless: If there is a non-Dendrek doctor about, then speak up today, or don't bother claiming.

Similar argument I will make for Graeham after what he has just said. If Virothe was an appeals committee something (I still don't quite get this appeals thing, so this has been somewhat enlightening), then Graeham is the primary candidate for the counterpoint by his own admission. That said, if he was I do not think he would have been so upfront about it. So I am leaning town on Graeham as well for that reason.

And by similar argument, Catta. If the two teams are mirrored, then Catta stands to be Crackle's counterpart role. Though this is a slightly less strong read, as it seems likely Crackle was solo.

Could either three be lying? I'm not discarding the idea. But if I put these players in the "lynch later" bin, that leaves ...

Robo, Kryllian, Kurenai, Xanjori, Reticence and Celtic. In that lynch order, tentatively.

The problem is, if we don't have two scumteams, then by the rule of 1/3 we might very well be on or super close to LYLO. Not sure I want to dive into a vote without some serious consideration. I would like some claims from at least the top three in that list, I think we're nearing the part of the game where that makes sense. I'm only slightly hesitant on that callout due to the possibility of outing the president - but I think we're nearing that point anyway.

[Deleted]

With nobody really trusting me but nobody wanting to lynch me, I feel like the scum team(s) are trying to get me on their side which makes me very worried :-p

[Catta]

I still dont see why you guys are so adamant about there being 2 scum teams.

My theory is that the modfied visitor was supposed to find Crackle and recruit him and as he died it become just a visitor.

Anyway, 3 people alive right now whom I got abilities from. I trust these people.

One person alive who was a very bad interview, vomited pea soup on me. Hint: Its kurenaii.

[Deleted]

Vote Kurenai

Going out with my girlfriend in a bit so you wont hear from me for about 15 hours give or take.

[Kryllian]

I'd prefer avoiding initiating a lynch until we've heard from Robo and Kurenai.

I'd like to hear from @Kryllian what her opinion is of Robo and Xanjori.

So just for clarity sake...I'm a guy. Calling me she doesn't bother me but in case anyone was interested.

To be honest when I try to think back on Robo or Xanj nothing really comes to mind. I was looking at a couple lists I made and noticed they're usually at the bottom which means I was looking up who else was playing. Other than the figh Xanj had this morning with Dendrek I'm not recalling much from him. He has been more vocal today but i'll get to my thoughts on that in a moment.

Also looking back, I see that Celtic and Kryllian were quick to vote on Uggor after his claim.

If Dendrek is right and Uggor's play was a gambit, I could see one of them hopping on early if they knew where the day was going. Particularly given Uggor's real life schedule, I could see him figuring he was going to get lynched soon anyway and trying to make the best of it for his team.

If that's the logic you're going to use then let's take a closer look. By your argument that this was a gambit we should also consider who started the train to get the votes going. Dendrek. After it took hold he removed himself so as to "avoid an early lynch". I think we all pretty much agree that we trust him as Town at this point but if not that would be a better place to look for shady activity than necessarily the next couple who voted the train to provide pressure to Uggor.

The same argument could be made that Large knew he was going to be gone so allowed himself to be lynched for his team to gain town cred. That gambit is more convincing to not point fingers at teammates who voted because he just fell off the radar and never defended himself. By your logic that would put the first couple people on that train in suspicion.

Ultimately I'd think that Uggor is a smarter player than to acknowledge he's having real life issues in the main discussion prior/during trying such a gambit. It seems like that would be something an experienced player wouldn't bring up except in their qt.

Which brings me to my next thought. When I threw out the two people I was most feeling were scum this morning I said said Ret was one of them I've gone from possibly scum to definitely scum in a matter of hours in Ret's opinion with the help of some back and forth from Xanj. The two of them seemed to feed off each others posts to paint me as scum. That to me feels like a team effort.

Anyway, 3 people alive right now whom I got abilities from. I trust these people.

One person alive who was a very bad interview, vomited pea soup on me. Hint: Its kurenaii.

Out of curiosity can you tell us if there was any pattern and did you learn character names? I'm wondering because my first thought when I read your description and Crackles is that you're going to gain power by inviting people of the opposite political standing. Maher is a liberal so if Trump was your gold star interview it seems like the conservative people would give you bonuses. If you know names did you get anything from actual west wing characters or just conservative people?

[Robozerim]

Ok, I couldn't get sleep without doing this first:
@Xanjori, @Reticence, @kurenai, @Robozerim, @Kryllian,

I've accused all 5 of you of potentially being scum. I've also suggested that there are two scum teams. And that the makeup of each team is:

Uggor's team:
Uggor, Kurenai, Reticence, Virothe

Largehorn's team:
Largehorn, Dupti, Robo, (Kryllian or Xanjori)

Am I wrong about this, about you, about one of my town reads? Who is scum? What is the scum setup for this game? (One scum team, or two? SK or no?)

I just woke up myself (night ended at 4:20am for me). If I were on dupti's team, I would have known for sure that dupti was fake claiming a role that was almost guaranteed to already be in this game and would soon be counterclaimed. I never would have said I even remotely trusted him. At most, I would have put him at uncertain, I never would have had him leaning trust.

I agree with the two scum teams idea, though. I'd like to update my vote records before I commit to an option, but based on what I remember my reads were before, I'd say that I agree that Kurenai is likely scum, and I suspect that Kryllian is town.

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In regards to being able to launch an appeal, I assume? I wouldn't want to vote on them purely for that, no. It'd have to be because I ultimately found their overall play throughout the game to be suspicious. It stands to reason there's someone out there playing 'President Bartlett' who has the final say over whether or not an appeal goes through.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is another player alive with my ability though. Cruelle's games typically have some sort of secondary feature baked into them such as the 'wish' system back in the Buffy game. Do you think the appeal system is in line with that?

Maybe it's been pointed out already, but obviously there is another person with the ability to appeal, unless of course you lied about only getting to use it once. If you didn't notice, dupti's lynch was appealed, though the appeal didn't seem to be publicly made and it was rejected.

I have a question for you...could you have made your appeal request in private too?

[Reticence]

If that's the logic you're going to use then let's take a closer look. By your argument that this was a gambit we should also consider who started the train to get the votes going. Dendrek. After it took hold he removed himself so as to "avoid an early lynch". I think we all pretty much agree that we trust him as Town at this point but if not that would be a better place to look for shady activity than necessarily the next couple who voted the train to provide pressure to Uggor.

If it was a gambit and his teammates knew it, they'd want to get on early to avoid the latter half of the train, where scum usually pile onto their allies. As for Dendrek, not only did he bring up the theory I'm referring to, but as you said, everyone pretty much trusts (or is buddying up to) him at this point, so I'm not sure why you'd even factor him into that.

The same argument could be made that Large knew he was going to be gone so allowed himself to be lynched for his team to gain town cred. That gambit is more convincing to not point fingers at teammates who voted because he just fell off the radar and never defended himself. By your logic that would put the first couple people on that train in suspicion.

It isn't the same. Largehorn had a guilty on him. Even if he wanted to gambit, he wouldn't have been able to do anything without first discrediting Arlee and/or Senna. At best he just didn't resist so that nobody could use his arguments against his teammates.

On the other hand, Uggor had one vote on him. He claimed early and boldly, demanding everyone's attention and scrutiny.

Ultimately I'd think that Uggor is a smarter player than to acknowledge he's having real life issues in the main discussion prior/during trying such a gambit. It seems like that would be something an experienced player wouldn't bring up except in their qt.

I don't think it really mattered when or if he said it at all. What I'm saying is if Uggor felt the day was starting unfavorably for his team, he might have considered himself the least-impacting lynch due to his role and/or his availability to be here. As such, Dendrek's theory about him taking control of the day early in an effort to buy information and time for his teammates isn't an implausible tactic for him.

I've gone from possibly scum to definitely scum in a matter of hours in Ret's opinion with the help of some back and forth from Xanj. The two of them seemed to feed off each others posts to paint me as scum. That to me feels like a team effort.

Perhaps, if by team effort you mean I distrust Xanjori the least of the unclaimed players and his opinions support my preexisting distrust of you.

Two questions for you, Kryll:
1) What's your opinion on Celtic?
2) What do you think of Graeham saying that he had to submit his appeal in the day-thread, when yesterday's appeal didn't seem to require that?

[Catta]

Out of curiosity can you tell us if there was any pattern and did you learn character names? I'm wondering because my first thought when I read your description and Crackles is that you're going to gain power by inviting people of the opposite political standing. Maher is a liberal so if Trump was your gold star interview it seems like the conservative people would give you bonuses. If you know names did you get anything from actual west wing characters or just conservative people?

Its linked the character rather than the role. I don't learn their names but I am told which player i target in the flavor text. Conservatives don't give bonuses - Trump was the gold star because he gave high viewer ratings.

[Robozerim]

Addendum: Not to mention the whole end-of-day post from yesterday, which really just confirms it. Unless you filed that appeal, Graeham.

Looks like it already was pointed out. : /

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Vote Kurenaii


Kill kill kill.

Can't say I'm surprised that you cast the first vote this day. Bloodthirstiness fits for you, too, as you don't really care who wins if you live to the end.

Oh....that makes things potentially even worse than I had been considering. Catta, if he is more or less the same as Crackle (wins with town if dead instead of scum), then he's not really town until he's dead. Until then, he is just a survivor. Outed as one, he won't be NK'd and I suspect we couldn't afford to waste a lynch on him, even if that's what we wanted to do.

1 survivor, potentially 4 scum, 5 town. The only thing preventing this from being completely catastrophic is that scum are likely split onto two teams.

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2) What do you think of Graeham saying that he had to submit his appeal in the day-thread, when yesterday's appeal didn't seem to require that?

While it is possible, I find that a little suspicious. As far as I can tell, we've got two mafia teams with mirrored or at least similar roles. I don't doubt that the one who tried to appeal dupti's lynch was scum and on his team. Graeham is a very good candidate for that unknown player's counterpart.

[Catta]

Can't say I'm surprised that you cast the first vote this day. Bloodthirstiness fits for you, too, as you don't really care who wins if you live to the end.

Oh....that makes things potentially even worse than I had been considering. Catta, if he is more or less the same as Crackle (wins with town if dead instead of scum), then he's not really town until he's dead. Until then, he is just a survivor. Outed as one, he won't be NK'd and I suspect we couldn't afford to waste a lynch on him, even if that's what we wanted to do.

1 survivor, potentially 4 scum, 5 town. The only thing preventing this from being completely catastrophic is that scum are likely split onto two teams.

I have a vested interest in seeing the town win considering I don't trust you lot to do so in the event of my death. I'd dare to say that I've done more for the town any other townie this game. I offed an invest-immune Virothe. I waited to soak a NK with my vest and now im trying to get the town to lynch yet another scum rather being passive.

[Robozerim]

I'd also like to point out that once again, Danner the bodyguard hasn't been killed by his own ability to protect people despite more missing kills and tpr's being killed off. The longer this lasts, the worse his claim is looking to me, and with mirrored mafias there is still an investigation immune godfather equivalent out there.

I do not trust Danner in the slightest anymore.

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I have a vested interest in seeing the town win considering I don't trust you lot to do so in the event of my death. I'd dare to say that I've done more for the town any other townie this game. I offed an invest-immune Virothe. I waited to soak a NK with my vest and now im trying to get the town to lynch yet another scum rather being passive.

You're a survivor in a position where you are not going to be killed by either side (town can't afford to waste the lynch, scum do better killing actual town), nor are you going to die accidentally because of redirection anymore. I repeat, you will not die. You have no vested interest in ensuring that town wins over scum at this point in time. Gratz on being the most effective town player when you aren't actually town, but the fact of the matter remains, you could easily win with scum at this point. You may be trying legitimately to get a scum lynched (and I do agree that Kurenai is likely scum), but in the end you'd be just fine if he flipped town, maybe even better off given how many scum there are relative to the total population.

I'm not saying we need to kill you, I'm just saying you can't be fully trusted to remain on the side of town. If you're wrong with Kurenai and he gets lynched, the easiest way for you to win will be to simply stop fighting for town. It's the way every single survivor is, they can't be trusted by either side because they are opportunistic by nature of their roles, so don't take it personally.

[Kryllian]

Two questions for you, Kryll:
1) What's your opinion on Celtic?
2) What do you think of Graeham saying that he had to submit his appeal in the day-thread, when yesterday's appeal didn't seem to require that?

I don't particularly trust Celtic. His posts have been a combination of "i'm on my phone and don't have time to explain further but trust me..." and then not really following up with more info. He also seems to do a lot of summarizing of actions, outrage posts (you don't trust me), etc.

The appeal doesn't seem to be that powerful of a role since it seems to rely on the President to make the final decision. It wouldn't surprise me given all the different power roles we've seen that there would be 1 or 2 appeals on Town and assuming the two scum team approach, 1 or 2 (most likely 2) on the scum side. It seems like there's been counterbalancing roles on both the town/scum side so far. I could also see it being altered with some kind of penalty. Because it's feels so weak of a power to me there may be conditionals on the scum side we don't see on the town side. For example if you do it in the main discussion you have to vote but if you do it in the qt you can't vote that day. I throw that out there because there were an unusually large proportional number of no-votes last night. Or some other twist like that. If another appeal comes up I'd be suspicious of that person no matter who they used it on at this point. The one last night seemed like a waste since as it was pointed out, an appeal in secret adds to the questionability from the start.

[Dendrek]

I have a vested interest in seeing the town win considering I don't trust you lot to do so in the event of my death. I'd dare to say that I've done more for the town any other townie this game. I offed an invest-immune Virothe. I waited to soak a NK with my vest and now im trying to get the town to lynch yet another scum rather being passive.

Ha. You've done a lot. You've not done the most.

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Danner is town. That is a fact. Do not question it.

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I will stake the outcome of this game on that.

[Robozerim]

Danner is town. That is a fact. Do not question it.

How do you know that Danner is town?

As before, I'm not advocating his lynch at this point in time since I think we have better targets, but what makes you so sure?

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Catta
1- Celtic209 (4)
2- No vote on record.
3- Kel (6)
4- Arlee (3), Largehorn (5/10)
5- Uggorthaholy (3), Valyrian (5/9)
6- Uggorthaholy (5/8)
7- KurenaiXIII (1)
Thoughts- Claims to be Crackleslap's counterpart in that he's by himself, wins with anybody if he survives to the end, and only wins with town if he is killed. Interviews people every night, claims to have killed Virothe, thinks that KurenaiXIII is likely scum based on his interview ability. I trust that he is what he says he is, but I do not trust him to side with town if things don't go in town's favour.

Celtic209
1- Danner (5), Crackleslap (13/13)
2- JynxieJ (2/8)
3- Kel (3), SatsuBL (10/10)
4- Arlee (3)
5- Graeham (1), Valyrian (8/9)
6- Uggorthaholy (2/8)
7- dupti (6)
Thoughts- Has softclaimed tpr, though that could mean nothing at all. Spoke out against Uggor during d6, unless busing was planned pretty well from the start, that makes him less likely to be on Uggor's team. Voted against dupti, but that was after he was counterclaimed. One of the few without a claim. Questionable.

Danner
1- Celtic209 (1)
2- SatsuBL (4)
3- SatsuBL (6/10)
4- dupti (1)
5- no vote on record
6- Uggorthaholy (7), unvote, Uggorthaholy (7/8)
7- dupti (1/6)
Thoughts- He is still alive despite claiming to being a bodyguard several nights ago and having the tpr's dropping almost every night. He has an innocent on him, but with two mafia there is bound to be another godfather. He voted against Uggor in the end (easily in busing territory), and voted against dupti before the counterclaim (and on multiple days). I will state that with dupti claiming something that definitely would get counterclaimed sooner or later, it's still plausible that he would have voted prematurely on dupti because of that (I know I would have). Hasn't had much actual activity. I do not trust him in the slightest. Questionable.

Dendrek
1- Celtic209 (4), Crackleslap (7/13)
2- SatsuBL (1)
3- Danner (1), Kel (9)
4- Danner (4), unvote
5- Valyrian (1)
6- Uggorthaholy (1), unvote (to avoid premature lynch)
7- dupti (2/6)
Thoughts- Has counterclaimed dupti as a doctor, which worked out well as dupti was fake claiming. It's been pointed out there is a chance that he is dupti's counterpart on the second mafia, but I think that's just paranoia at this point. Trust.

Graeham
1- Danner (2)
2- JynxieJ (2/8)
3- Kel (4), SatsuBL (8/10)
4- Largehorn (5/10)
5- dupti (1)
6- dupti (2)
7- Danner (1), dupti (3/6)
Thoughts- Voted against Largehorn, but only after a guilty. voted against dupti multiple times (though it could be the whole knowing he'd get counterclaimed thing). He defended Uggor, though it was to go after dupti instead of him. Used a power to try and stop Valyrian's lynch, which could be either town trying to save a town read, or scum trying to get town cred. A second appeal that was anonymous was almost guaranteed to be done by scum. He says that he didn't do it, and that his appeal had to be public. I'm not sure I'd believe that, and with mirrored teams he is prime candidate for the scum appeal requester's counterpart. Suspicious.

Kryllian
1- Crackleslap (6/13)
2- SatsuBL (6)
3- Kel (8)
4- Uggorthaholy (3), Largehorn (8/10)
5- Valyrian (3/9)
6- Uggorthaholy (3/8)
7- dupti (6/6 but not the last vote)
Thoughts- Multiple votes against Uggor makes me think he's less likely to be on his team. I admit, however, that he could easily enough be on Largehorn's team at this point. Questionable.

KurenaiXII
1- Celtic209 (3)
2- No vote on record.
3- SatsuBL (5/10)
4- no vote on record
5- dupti (4)
6- dupti (1)
7- No vote on record
Thoughts- Voted against dupti multiple times, which makes him less likely to be on his team. Could still be on the other team, though as nothing in the record indicates he couldn't be. Catta says that the result of interviewing him was very similar to another scum. Not a lot of activity that I can recall. Suspicious.

Reticence
1- dupti (3)
2- Listo95 (2), unvote
3- Kel (9)
4- Arlee (3), Largehorn (2), Largehorn (6/10)
5- Robozerim (1), Valyrian (6), dupti (5)
6- dupti (4)
7- No vote on record
Thoughts- Multiple votes against dupti does make it a little less likely that he's on dupti's team (but as always, with a claim that will obviously be countered before long, it's not a sure thing). Voted against Largehorn, but only after he was investigated. Questionable. He's not who I'd choose to lynch today, but I still find him Questionable.

Robozerim
1- Virothe (1), dupti (5), Danner (5)
2- JynxieJ (3/8)
3- SatsuBL (3), Kel (9), SatsuBL (9/10)
4- Uggorthaholy (2)
5- Uggorthaholy (2), Valyrian (7/9)
6- Uggorthaholy (6/8)
7- KurenaiXIII (2)
Thoughts- Voted against Virothe D1 as a joke. Voted against dupti on day 1 at a point where he could potentially have been in danger would make it less likely I'm on his team. Didn't vote against Largehorn, but that's because I was absent for the latter half of that day (and I'd be stupid to try to save Largehorn even by disappearing in that scenario). Multiple votes against uggor across 3 days makes me less likely to be on his team. Didn't vote on dupti, but that was as I stated because I didn't want to give him the chance to self hammer and end day early. Complete trust, obviously.

Xanjori
1- Catta (1), Crackleslap (4/13)
2- Arlee (1), SatsuBL (9)
3- Kel (5)
4- Danner (1), Arlee (2)
5- Uggorthaholy (1), Valyrian (4/9)
6- Uggorthaholy (6/8)
7- dupti (4/6)
Thoughts- Multiple Uggor votes makes him less likely to be on his team, though he could still be on the other. Not voting against Largehorn doesn't really mean any more than actually voting on him because it was a guilty led lynch. Vote against dupti was only after a counterclaim. Not my first choice for lynching this day, but...Questionable.

Given this, my top two choices for lynching are KurenaiXIII and Graeham, though there are certainly others I'd be willing to lynch.

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Okay...if I had to guess, you predict that Danner is still alive because you've been protecting him. You're working under the assumption that he has successfully blocked kills, but you prevented him from dying. As a bodyguard, he's very unlikely to be scum. If he isn't a bodyguard, that means people may have been trying to kill him at night (as opposed to constant double taps), which would make him much less likely to be scum. Either way, he'd probably be town, though there's little cause for him to lie as town, so he's very likely to be precisely what he says.

I think I may have come up with a justification for your confidence....though I'm not sure why you wouldn't have come out with that to begin with if it were true.

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If that is true, I'd have to bump him up a few levels as far as trust goes.

[Xanjori]

Breaking up RObos chain spam

[Dendrek]

For those who missed it, I'd like to re-emphasize my point about the makeup of the two teams:

Uggor's team:
Uggor, Kurenai, Reticence, Virothe

Largehorn's team:
Largehorn, Dupti, Robo, (Kryllian or Xanjori)

If there are two teams, we can expect minimal bussing within individual teams, extreme aggressiveness across team lines, and potentially similar setups within each team.

Some obvious questions:

Is it possible I'm wrong and there's actually 1 large team?
Yes. It's unlikely. Extremely unlikely. But it's possible. The main compelling reason to think this could be the case is that there have been no differentiation between the coloring of the two teams. Would Cruelle intentionally leave that vague? Yes. We really can't say Cruelle wouldn't do it, because I know for a fact that Cruelle had a great deal of fun playing in a game where this exact thing was done. I can totally see him setting up his own game in a similar fashion. The other not-very-compelling reason that has been brought up for there being one team is the argument that Uggor and Largehorn didn't actually have the same ability and it's possible Large's rolecard is a bastardized role card (that Cruelle intentionally changed the wording on it to make it look like Uggor's). Honestly, if you think Cruelle is more likely to present a bastardized role card then you are to think Cruelle might not color code the scum teams, I don't know what to say about your ability to analyze Cruelle's motivations as a moderator.

Is it possible I'm wrong about any of my town reads?
Yes. And no. Danner is not scum. I'm not wrong on that. DO NOT LYNCH HIM. Celtic could be scum, but he's not (inevitably he's bound to die or be exposed anyways so there's no point in pressuring him). Graeham could be scum, but unless Xanjori or Kryllian want to claim they have the ability to appeal a lynch, Graeham is town. This latter statement probably sounds ridiculous, so I'll expand on it.

The appeal: I've said it earlier this game and I absolutely stand by it at this point. It absolutely cannot be something only scum can do. President Bartlet is the deciding factor on if the appeal goes through. If only scum can appeal, then the President has literally been given a role that can only benefit scum. On the topic of Cruelle being a bastard mod, that is a really bastard thing to do. No. The appeal had to have been possible by at least one town player. I've also explained that it is very likely Virothe could do an appeal. A reread and reevaluation of his role as well as last night's appeal makes it obvious the scum can appeal. And despite my earlier theory that Virothe could block an appeal, it seems much more likely now that he could initiate one. That means the other scum team has the ability to appeal (which we saw last night).

Short of Graeham being counter claimed or a town appealer dying, Graeham is town. DO NOT LYNCH HIM.

Why am I so sure of the scum makeup outlined above?
It's because of their actions this game.

Players who are not on the same team:
- Uggor and Largehorn. This is obvious. They had the same ability.
- Uggor and Dupti. Uggor's gambit yesterday makes it very unlikely these two are on the same team. If it were only one scum team, but on smaller teams I don't see it.
- Uggor and Kryllian. Kryllian had been pushing on Uggor a lot this game.
- Uggor and Xanjori. Xanjori has been scum hunting Uggor a lot as well.
- Dupti and Kurenai. They've been scum hunting each other aggressively.
- Reticence and Robo. Ret has been trying to get Robo lynched a lot this game.
- Reticence and Dupti. Ret wanted to lynch Dupti over Uggor two days ago.
- Virothe and Largehorn. Their interactions D2 suggest they're not on the same team. The appeal we saw for Dupti further confirms this separation.
- Everyone and Kurenai. Besides Reticence, everyone else today has been pushing on getting Kurenai lynched.

Players who are on the same team:
- Uggor and Reticence. Ret defended Uggor pretty hard two days ago.
- Uggor and Kurenai. Kurenai also defended Uggor.
- Reticence and Kurenai. Ret has been defending Kurenai today.

Of the people I've accused of being on Largehorn's team, who isn't?
Based on what I've seen today, I am pretty sure Robo is scum. Between Xanjori and Kryllian, I think it's more likely Xanjori is town.

[Reticence]

Short of Graeham being counter claimed or a town appealer dying, Graeham is town. DO NOT LYNCH HIM.

Humor me for a moment. Pretend that Graeham is scum. Where would you put him?

- Reticence and Kurenai. Ret has been defending Kurenai today.

Lightly, followed by a counterargument in favor of his lynch. Need me to find the post for you?

I know you think you've got it figured out, Dendrek, but you're wrong.

[Danner]

@Robozerim:

The feeling of distrust is very mutual it seems. I put you above Kryllian and Kurenai in scumminess right now. The primary player in the game I like a claim from is you. I'm not sure I can convince you, but I ask you to consider the possibilities of us being at LYLO. If we have one large scumteam, we should be just about at LYLO right now by the rule of 1/3. I lean towards this game having two scumteams, but I also lean towards them not being mirrored due to the role differences, tiny as they were, between Mafia Visitor and Mafia Thief. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean it's less urgent to consider my request. I do not believe we have many mislynches to go by.

While I may not be the person to complain about this, you haven't played your normal game this game. You usually play actively starting from the mid-game. This game, you have been reserved all the way. That's what rubs you off on me the wrong way. I like to think you are one of the people I actually can read in this game. And I think you are hiding something this time around. You can't be the cop, you aren't counterclaiming Dendrek for doctorship, nor me for bodyguard (I presume?) - and I do not believe you are the president. I also do not think you are a VT due to that reservedness, and I think the JOAT role that is usually found is spread over myself, Arlee and Catta.

My main interest is you, if you're not scum, what are you?