[LEGION] Windwalker Discussion

[Shoeboots]

Correct, and if it DID allow RJW to trigger, then I could see people using RJW > Xuen/Hit Combo in most situations.

That's a shame. I'm just looking to not have to tab target. If they could just get rid of the tab target aspect of SCK, I would be on board. And I also agree with the prior comment that if they're goal is to make the class more accessible to casual players, tab targeting is a huge mistake.

[Deleted]

That's a shame. I'm just looking to not have to tab target. If they could just get rid of the tab target aspect of SCK, I would be on board. And I also agree with the prior comment that if they're goal is to make the class more accessible to casual players, tab targeting is a huge mistake.

Tab targeting is pretty straight forward thing to do in wow, it may be a little cumbersome to use properly, but there isn't any big science in using it.
I don't reckon devs have any issues with tab targeting, since a lot of classses that were tab-targeting in WoD still have to tab-target in Legion (even after blizz nerfed the complexities of almost every spec).

[Golden]

Got to hand it to Blizzard...they pruned live SEF and their shell-game was so good there wasn't even a monk riot.

[Lucrece]

Got to hand it to Blizzard...they pruned live SEF and their shell-game was so good there wasn't even a monk riot.

Don't think there are enough monks left to riot lol.

Demon Hunter is virtually an improved, more special version of monks. And whatever DH didn't eclipse, rogues did instead.

[Viradiance]

Wouldn't be blizzard if they didn't quarter-ass it.

Gale Burst appears to still not be working.

Strength of Xuen does not benefit Storm, Earth and Fire.

Spiritual Focus adds 5% damage per spirit still (increasing SEF damage to 150%)

Crosswinds appears to do nothing still.

Effuse does nothing still, but there's an excellent healing elixirs change. Healing Elixir now has 2 charges, and is an active ability. 30 second cooldown, on use heals you for 15%. When you drop below 35%, heals you for 15% if a charge is available.

Strike of the Windlord damage seems to have increased dramatically (or RSK was lowered), now does 393k tooltip damage (PVP premade) compared to RSK's 181k. SEF clones still don't copy it.

Tornado Kicks still unchanged, for what amounts to far and away the least interesting greater artifact power.

Edit: Nooo idea how I missed this. Strike of the Windlord's chi cost is now 2.

[Lucrece]

I've been pestering Celestalon on twitter about making Chi Orbit like Aurelion Sol's mechanism from League of Legends.

Basically, you can keep the orbit passive but you have the option to empower them via a toggle that could then either cost energy or chi for a stronger effect.

But I don't have alpha access so any neat ideas I may have for the spec will not make it to official forums until it is too late to change things.... ;(

We still have that worthless Light on Your Feet 9% dodge increase artifact trait that for some reason nobody is complaining about on feedback forums. It is an absolute waste of an artifact trait to have 9% dodge increase on a DPS class that's not supposed to be tanking hits for a prolonged time to wait for the RNG to favor them.

Meanwhile other classes get 10% flat damage reduction traits or increased healing sources.

I'm also not sure why no one has complained about how bland and useless Strike of the Windlordlord is; it has a worthless 50% snare that's irrelevant in most of PvE and it just doesn't really add much to the gameplay of the Windwalker when other specs get gamechanging artifact spells.

[Deleted]

We still have that worthless Light on Your Feet 9% dodge increase artifact trait that for some reason nobody is complaining about on feedback forums. It is an absolute waste of an artifact trait to have 9% dodge increase on a DPS class that's not supposed to be tanking hits for a prolonged time to wait for the RNG to favor them.

Meanwhile other classes get 10% flat damage reduction traits or increased healing sources.

I'm also not sure why no one has complained about how bland and useless Strike of the Windlordlord is; it has a worthless 50% snare that's irrelevant in most of PvE and it just doesn't really add much to the gameplay of the Windwalker when other specs get gamechanging artifact spells.

Not all classes have flat damage reduction, some have increased armor, soe have magic reduction, while al this being better than dodge, I guess devs wanted to have more variety...

Also, I would be spamming feedback forums, if they read the EU forums, which they clearly don't bother with.

We have a lot of untreated problems in our talent and artifact trees, namely the traits revolving around Touch of Death, the transcendecne heal, Touch of Karma heal etc.

Also 9% dodge is bullshit, if they took away our taunt.

[Conjugate]

We have taunt actuallly...

And yeah about artifact talents, apart from dodge/deathart which are just embarassingly bad.. we also have tiger palm/blackout kick %damage increasing talents, while tiger palm doesn't do any damage(and it is very doubtful tuning will change that), and blackout kick is barely ever used anymore(too many things to spend chi on, as well as rjw taking bok's place in rotation when specced for it), and has negilible damage as well.

About lacklustre ultimate traits though... they will probably tune them up to feel useful, but yeah.. all boring passives anyway

[Lucrece]

Well, make sure to post that feedback please. I'm tired to see the entirety of WW feedback on alpha forums revolve around the SEF whinefest when there are way more problems to the class right now.

[Deleted]

We have taunt actuallly...

And yeah about artifact talents, apart from dodge/deathart which are just embarassingly bad.. we also have tiger palm/blackout kick %damage increasing talents, while tiger palm doesn't do any damage(and it is very doubtful tuning will change that), and blackout kick is barely ever used anymore(too many things to spend chi on, as well as rjw taking bok's place in rotation when specced for it), and has negilible damage as well.

About lacklustre ultimate traits though... they will probably tune them up to feel useful, but yeah.. all boring passives anyway

We do? my bad, at the start of Alpha we didn't and I didn't update on this

TP and BK damage increase is just a part of the filler, all specs have these useless traits.

[Conjugate]

I'm pretty sure it's worse in value than most fillers though.. BoK and TP together can be like 5% of your damage or even worse, I doubt the 2 of them combined will ever reach 10% of our damage in any situation, which makes the traits erm.. you know:/

[Viradiance]

Went through a Mythic+ today (would've done at least level 3 the affix was Tyrannical and the boss kinda kicked our tank's ass until we gave up).

From what I could tell, coupled with a Fury Warrior, Enh Shaman and Demo Lock in the group, WW might end up taking the mantle of god of all forms of AOE. Fury Warrior came close with bladestorm up but FOF cleave might be a bit strong. I was generally pretty far ahead of the party on single target too, but I'd attribute that to having played more alpha than most of the group in general, and playing a class I main and have gotten a lot of alpha practice on, and having a much higher leveled artifact... So it's hard to say.

Anyway, the class feels really strong. The new Storm, Earth and Fire is... something at least. New 2chi cost Strike of the Windlord that is actually worth casting helps a lot, and with Ascension and the +30 max energy trait the rotational dead ends are pretty minimalized.

Still some problems, but if the current kit remains even close to well-tuned we'll probably keep our niche as AOE/Cleave.

[Ihatepanda]

Went through a Mythic+ today (would've done at least level 3 the affix was Tyrannical and the boss kinda kicked our tank's ass until we gave up).

From what I could tell, coupled with a Fury Warrior, Enh Shaman and Demo Lock in the group, WW might end up taking the mantle of god of all forms of AOE. Fury Warrior came close with bladestorm up but FOF cleave might be a bit strong. I was generally pretty far ahead of the party on single target too, but I'd attribute that to having played more alpha than most of the group in general, and playing a class I main and have gotten a lot of alpha practice on, and having a much higher leveled artifact... So it's hard to say.

Anyway, the class feels really strong. The new Storm, Earth and Fire is... something at least. New 2chi cost Strike of the Windlord that is actually worth casting helps a lot, and with Ascension and the +30 max energy trait the rotational dead ends are pretty minimalized.

Still some problems, but if the current kit remains even close to well-tuned we'll probably keep our niche as AOE/Cleave.

So what is the basic aoe rotation ? Using RJW or not ? You topped the chart while having SEF up or you were able to manage it even without it ?

I have so many questions... can't figure out if i'll still be playing my monk :/

[Golden]

...WW might end up taking the mantle of god of all forms of AOE. Fury Warrior came close with bladestorm up but FOF cleave might be a bit strong.

It's called good marketing.

I don't think any rational player believes that Windwalker's sustained AoE is going to stay higher than another class's burst AoE. Once everyone is saying that the new style of monk AoE is amazing, the tuning phase will hit.

[Deleted]

Idgaf about what class does the most numbers in what situation, after seeing Kung Fu Panda 3 I think everyone who loves pandaren windwalkers SHOULD DEFINETLY go Pandaren monk lol, Po is a fucking beast and they even introduced Chi in that movie. So you could say KFP copied blizzard this time.

[Krazzorx]

Tab targeting aoe with SEF is a complete non issue as they do it for you (as in last build), it's insanely powerful.

Love strike of the wind lord, and new healing elixirs could have occasional value in raids.

Most specs have a useless artifact trait so it's whatever. (Light on your feet). For instance, Destro gets a talent that increases the healing of drain life.

Personally, I think people are underestimating death art. It's useful on mobs that need to die very quickly and rng can cause it to die faster or slower. So touch of death would be insurance. Eg, infernals on Archimonde or phantasmal resonance (burn strat) on Iskar.

[Deleted]

Idgaf about what class does the most numbers in what situation, after seeing Kung Fu Panda 3 I think everyone who loves pandaren windwalkers SHOULD DEFINETLY go Pandaren monk lol, Po is a fucking beast and they even introduced Chi in that movie. So you could say KFP copied blizzard this time.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I am like 100% certain Chi is like 4000y old Chinese thing, then again, can't be sure.

Personally, I think people are underestimating death art. It's useful on mobs that need to die very quickly and rng can cause it to die faster or slower. So touch of death would be insurance. Eg, infernals on Archimonde or phantasmal resonance (burn strat) on Iskar.

Yes, but Death Art solves none of those problems. It missleads inexperienced players into thinking it's a good idea using it as an execute, which it's not.

[Viradiance]

So what is the basic aoe rotation ? Using RJW or not ? You topped the chart while having SEF up or you were able to manage it even without it ?

I have so many questions... can't figure out if i'll still be playing my monk :/

Depends on fight length. If a Bladestorming warrior is fighting low health adds and the fight ends shortly after bladestorm, he wins. If they last another 10 seconds I pretty quickly pull ahead when SCK is fully set up. With SEF up, I can top the Warrior from the word go by just jab -> bk -> jab -> SCKing the packs down. It feels like it's not worth using FOF with SEF up for AOE, since they point in all sorts of random directions.

Didn't end up playing with RJW yet, we'll have to see. If SEF was down I'd make sure to instead land FOFs that hit most of the pack, and keep it, SOTW, and dragon punch on cooldown. When they were unavailable I'd tab&jab until I had five+ stacks of the SCK buff, then try to maintain stacks and SCK. With SEF available it seems like you purely focus on SCK while AOEing.

It's called good marketing.

I don't think any rational player believes that Windwalker's sustained AoE is going to stay higher than another class's burst AoE. Once everyone is saying that the new style of monk AoE is amazing, the tuning phase will hit.

Oh I certainly don't expect it to make it out of beta this strong, but mechanically it seems sound right now. Just needs... lots of tuning.

SCK tab targetting is still kinda the worst. They fucking lied about tab targetting being fixed.

[Shoeboots]

So for a SCK when SEF is not up, how many tab targets do you do? Basically just till you're out of energy? or do you push till you're full chi?, Or just till you have 3 chi?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, is there any video of this build in action we can see? Anyone on alpha, if you could do a quick target dummy demo for youtube, it would be greatly appreciated!

[Lucrece]

Tab targeting aoe with SEF is a complete non issue as they do it for you (as in last build), it's insanely powerful.

Love strike of the wind lord, and new healing elixirs could have occasional value in raids.

Most specs have a useless artifact trait so it's whatever. (Light on your feet). For instance, Destro gets a talent that increases the healing of drain life.

Personally, I think people are underestimating death art. It's useful on mobs that need to die very quickly and rng can cause it to die faster or slower. So touch of death would be insurance. Eg, infernals on Archimonde or phantasmal resonance (burn strat) on Iskar.

How s increased healing on drain life useless? It's pretty obvious that it's there in times you need to heal yourself. It's RELIABLE.

WW get to waste 3 points for a 9% increased chance to not be 1-2 shot by a boss or mob the tank should be holding instead of letting hit people. You can't dodge aoe damage auras, you can't dodge automated physical damage from a boss's mechanics.

Light on Your Feet is absolute, unmitigated trash that belongs in the Brewmaster artifact, not ours.